Relative news values
Jun 17th, 2005, 05:05 AM
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Relative news values
AP reported today that two visitors from NYC were shot and killed on St. Thomas Wednesday. Police described them as black and said they were on the island to attend a wedding.
More info. is available from the VI papers (VI Daily News or onepaper.com). But I'll bet this will get a heckuva lot less attention than the continuing saga on Aruba.
It will be interesting to see how the media weigh the relative values of these two stories.
More info. is available from the VI papers (VI Daily News or onepaper.com). But I'll bet this will get a heckuva lot less attention than the continuing saga on Aruba.
It will be interesting to see how the media weigh the relative values of these two stories.
Jun 17th, 2005, 05:09 AM
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I just heard it on CBS news, but can't find a thing about it elsewhere. I'll check your sources, but this is gonna be interesting to follow politically.
My heart goes out to the families of these two men.
My heart goes out to the families of these two men.
Jun 17th, 2005, 05:53 AM
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I am afraid you're going to be proven right about that. And it's ironic because safety is much more of an issue in St. Thomas than it is in Aruba. While I'd classify the Aruba incident as isolated and unusual, violent crime on St. Thomas (while relatively rare against tourists) is much more common.
Jun 17th, 2005, 06:05 AM
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The two young men killed in St. Thomas are from the NYC area, so we'll probably hear more on the local news than will be on the national wires. If I hear anything more, I'll try to post an update over the weekend.
Jun 17th, 2005, 06:13 AM
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This story was on the cover of the NY Daily News in NYC today.
Here is the link:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-273571c.html
Here is the link:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-273571c.html
Jun 17th, 2005, 06:56 AM
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Editor,
I am assuming that you will not delete this thread as crime is more of an issue on STT than on Aruba. I guess that's why all the thread's regarding crime on Jamaica stays while the one news item on Aruba is deleted. As you have posted "While I'd classify the Aruba incident as isolated and unusual, violent crime on St. Thomas (while relatively rare against tourists) is much more common." Interesting policy.
Note: Not saying that you personally deleted the other threads.
I am assuming that you will not delete this thread as crime is more of an issue on STT than on Aruba. I guess that's why all the thread's regarding crime on Jamaica stays while the one news item on Aruba is deleted. As you have posted "While I'd classify the Aruba incident as isolated and unusual, violent crime on St. Thomas (while relatively rare against tourists) is much more common." Interesting policy.
Note: Not saying that you personally deleted the other threads.
Jun 17th, 2005, 08:12 AM
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I don't really have anything to do with threads that are deleted. I'm an editor on the book-side, so I just deal with content, not policing the forums. There are a couple of threads on the Aruba incident, so I don't think it's being excised by any means. But what I can say about safety in the Caribbean in general is that most islands are pretty safe if you exercise even a modicum of caution in the dodgy areas (and many islands have those). Crime in the Virgin Islands ebbs and flows along with the drug trade, as it does on many islands. But violent crime against tourists is rare everywhere, even on Jamaica. I've been to Jamaica, and I just don't feel unsafe there.
Jun 17th, 2005, 06:53 PM
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Doug wrote: "There are a couple of threads on the Aruba incident, so I don't think it's being excised by any means."
Doug, you're kidding right? There are NO active threads regarding Natalee Holloway. There were at least four. They are either gone, or Fodor's has taken away the "post reply" button. Just try and "top" one of them. Can you give us some honest insight as to why Fodor's is doing this?
Doug, you're kidding right? There are NO active threads regarding Natalee Holloway. There were at least four. They are either gone, or Fodor's has taken away the "post reply" button. Just try and "top" one of them. Can you give us some honest insight as to why Fodor's is doing this?
Jun 19th, 2005, 06:09 PM
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Joan...yes I started one of the posts and only into the second day it was deleted.There was no arguing going on either...just questions about what could have happened and what were the updates on the case.Very strange if you ask me.
Jun 25th, 2005, 03:18 PM
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Just wanted to thank you for noticing the story of the two young men (one related to me) and talking about it. Outside of the NYC press there has been very little attention on the case, and we are afraid the story will fade away, taking the pressure off the USVI police who have yet to find a suspect.
Special thanks to Scubagirl for her message of empathy.
Special thanks to Scubagirl for her message of empathy.
Jun 25th, 2005, 04:08 PM
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Oh my, "victim family"...
What to say to you ? There are many of us here who do care, but sometimes meaningful thoughts are deleted.
I hope you realize that by posting here tonight, you have reminded many of us to keep you in our thoughts and prayers.
I do so hope that you will find justice...and eventually some peace for yourself and your family.
Marion
What to say to you ? There are many of us here who do care, but sometimes meaningful thoughts are deleted.
I hope you realize that by posting here tonight, you have reminded many of us to keep you in our thoughts and prayers.
I do so hope that you will find justice...and eventually some peace for yourself and your family.
Marion
Jun 25th, 2005, 06:19 PM
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to victim family: my most sincere condolences. i was on st.t, to attend a wedding myself, when this occured. there was not alot on the news there either, but they did run a long story about gang kids shooting each other on st. croix. i noticed an increase in security patrol at my hotel that night and for several afterwards.
doug: i started the originial thread about natalee. it was not acrimonious and it was deleted. and there are definetly no threads left discussing this incident!!!
doug: i started the originial thread about natalee. it was not acrimonious and it was deleted. and there are definetly no threads left discussing this incident!!!
Jun 26th, 2005, 02:19 AM
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My issue with the Aruba incident is the (reported) inept initial police work that has led this case down the path where we now find it.
If the STT crime scene and investigators are shown to be as (apparently) careless as those in Aruba, then shame on them too.
I sense that some are hinting that because this STT crime happenened on a US territory island that it will be hushed up or less sensationalized.
Again, imo, the Aruba sensationalism started with the parents drawing attention to the (lack of) crime work of the Aruban authorities during that first week.
If the STT crime scene and investigators are shown to be as (apparently) careless as those in Aruba, then shame on them too.
I sense that some are hinting that because this STT crime happenened on a US territory island that it will be hushed up or less sensationalized.
Again, imo, the Aruba sensationalism started with the parents drawing attention to the (lack of) crime work of the Aruban authorities during that first week.
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:12 AM
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I think the biggest difference between the St. Thomas incident and the Aruba incident is that in St. Thomas, you know the result of the actions, you just don't know why or who did the crimes. In Aruba, Natalee is still missing. It is hard to contrast these two cases. The only thing in common is that they happened to people who are supposed to be in a very happy time in their lives i.e. vacation, and that it is devastating to their loved ones. St. Thomas is U.S. territory so the laws there and the investigating procedures are the same or at least very similar to anywhere else in the states. We've heard a great deal more about Aruba/Natalee in large part because the media is more competitive than it has ever been, and because her family is doing everything it can to place pressure on the local government (as well they should). Here's hoping that there is quick resolution in both cases.
Jun 27th, 2005, 05:24 AM
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Anderson Cooper's Friday show had a segment on the St. Thomas murders, but there was absolutely no new information, just a recap of the crime. I've seen nothing on the local NYC news about it. But several people have said (and I'd say quite accurately) that discussions about crimes in the USVI are kept quiet and low-key. To be fair, though, violent crime against tourists happens very rarely, even in St. Thomas and St. Croix, which have fairly high crime rates.
Jun 27th, 2005, 08:02 AM
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It amazes me how people are quick to say how inept ( and other not so nice words) to describe invetigators in Aruba because they havent solve the case within 2 hours... there are tons of cases of missing people here in the good old USA which are unsolved and are no closer to being solved than when they happened 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago. Give the Aruban authorities the benefit of being there and having more information than the speculators do. Woud you describe the US authorities in the same manner?
Jun 27th, 2005, 11:53 AM
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jray - good point 
. I am not sure why some seem to think this should case have been solved immediately. So many have been down there searching so I am not sure we can blame the authorities. Plus its not the same as the US and they don't report a lot of things they are doing down there. We don't know all that is being done. It is NOT fair to say this would have been solved if it was the US. That is simply not true.
. I am not sure why some seem to think this should case have been solved immediately. So many have been down there searching so I am not sure we can blame the authorities. Plus its not the same as the US and they don't report a lot of things they are doing down there. We don't know all that is being done. It is NOT fair to say this would have been solved if it was the US. That is simply not true.
Jun 28th, 2005, 06:29 AM
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A quick Google search reveals 281,000 articles related to Natalee Holloway, with only 4,800 for Tristan Charlier.
I'm a big fan of the USVI (STX, specifically) but this lack of coverage is appalling. In a VI Daily News Article you can almost hear the Tourism Commissioner praying that the media won't cover this at http://www.virginislandsdailynews.co...ome?id=6147427
Another article http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...p-274811c.html elucidates the VIPD's dismal record in solving homicides this year.
And finally, an article in the Washington Post written BEFORE the murders puts as fine a point as I think any journalist would dare on the possible reasons: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060901729.html
My heart goes out to the friends and families in these tragedies.
I'm a big fan of the USVI (STX, specifically) but this lack of coverage is appalling. In a VI Daily News Article you can almost hear the Tourism Commissioner praying that the media won't cover this at http://www.virginislandsdailynews.co...ome?id=6147427
Another article http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...p-274811c.html elucidates the VIPD's dismal record in solving homicides this year.
And finally, an article in the Washington Post written BEFORE the murders puts as fine a point as I think any journalist would dare on the possible reasons: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060901729.html
My heart goes out to the friends and families in these tragedies.
