HaHaHa, <BR>Well...first of all, thanks for the "gold-star" for accuracy. Wish I could return the compliment. <BR> <BR>To the best of my knowledge...Orient Beach is clothing optional. The entire beach is CO. I have seen people walking from end to end without a stitch...and encountering no resistance. <BR> <BR>Now, the CO clubs at both ends offer protection from voyeurs in the form of camera police, etc. As such...you will see many nore people enjoying CO activities at these spots on the beach. But CO activities are not restricted to these parts of Orient. <BR> <BR>Just trying to be accurate... (grin) <BR>

Jeremy - Read again...my post contained the dates. 1st trip - January 1999 <BR>2nd trip - January 2001 <BR> <BR>Also...yes, I spent the majority of those two days in Orient Bay. In 1999, I also spent a few hours in Phillipsburg, of course. And in 2001, I spent several hours in Marigot. <BR> <BR>You're right, I didn't see the entire island. I DID see enough to put SXM a long way down on my island priority list. It's more commercial than I like...period. <BR> <BR>If you like it, that's great. If like you said, you've never been there...well, I don't understand your point? Why do people feel the need to sell everyone else? Go to your favorite spot and enjoy, mon! <BR>And they should understand that not everyone has to think the same as you. Like I said...different strokes for different folks. <BR>

That was stupid if me! <BR>Yea commercial is more fun, laid back is more pretty. Im in the process of choosing one or the other as we speak.

An interesting last bit of exchanges. This on a post that's over 15 months old. <BR> <BR>Let me say this about that. Momma always said, "You can't see the man in a new moon." M-O-O-N; that spells moon. (credits to Hanks and King). <BR> <BR>It's interesting to read advice given by people who stay one day in a place. That's not a knock on their judgement. Some people REALLY can judge a book by it's cover. But a lot of times it's a mis-guided impression. <BR> <BR>St Martin, too-much commercialism? <BR> <BR>Take a vacation this way. Stay at Club O. True it's clothing optional, but no TV, no radio, no phone in your room. No radios allowed on the beach. Sure they had a band twice a week, music stops at 11. Too restrictive? <BR> <BR>Go into French Cul-de-Sac or Grand Case for dinner. What do you have? Restaurants and homes. Oh that's right there is a Texeco station! <BR> <BR>Local color, try the Lolos in Grand Case, go to the farmer's markets in Marigot. Stock up on your Caribbean spices. Go up to Fort Loius in Marigot, learn the history of the island and enjoy the view. <BR> <BR>Go to Yvettes or Poulette Orleans for some local Conch Fritters or Goat Stew. <BR> <BR>Too commercial? If you let it be. <BR> <BR>

ComThats whats cool about st. martin. You got the french, the dutch, the commercial, the non comercial. I happen to think its kind of cool to see a mcdonalds on such a little island in another country. I hear the cups say "St. Martin" on them.

OK...for Jeremy, Bubba and the rest, this is the last time I'm posting. In fact it's the last time I visit this thread. <BR>My post was not intended to advise ANYONE on whether or not to vacation in SXM. If you read my original post, I was answering Jan's question regarding changes people have observed from 2000 to present. I had visited the same part of SXM two nears apart and noticed CONSIDERABLE change. My post was very specific. It noted dates and specific places. I also stated that both trips were day trips...so that readers would understand I do not consider myself any sort of authority on St. Martin! Geez folks, I just answered a question, and explained the limitations of MY observations. How much more clear can one be? <BR> <BR>And as for Bubba stating that "It's interesting to read advice given by day-trippers"...once again...I advised NO ONE. I merely reported MY observations, and qualified them as being limited in scope. I am certain that most intelligent readers of these posts can decide for themselves how much they will let limited observations such as mine determine their vacation destination. (I guess if it were me...I would have more substantial criteria established for which to base such a decision). <BR> <BR>Bubba...I stated that I had put St. Martin lower on my list of islands to visit. That's a fact. I've had a taste. And I've travelled the Caribbean enough to experience different island flavors, and I recognize which are MY favorites.There are some basic similarities between Caribbean islands, but I think they are each DEFINED by their differences. Each island seems to have a unique flavor and rhythm all it's own. I will pursue visiting new destinations based on finding MORE of the flavors I enjoy. I found your comparison to judging a book by it's cover interesting, but incomplete. I compare my decision about SXM to that of, checking out a library book, reading the first chapter, and deciding to return the book before finishing. That doesn't mean I will never again check out the book. But right now, there are other books I wish to read first. (i.e. other islands I wish to visit before spending a week on St. Martin.) Now if someone asks me about that book, I would tell them that, well I read the first chapter, didn't get into it, so didn't finish it. Does that mean another person should not read the book? Get real. Let's give the readers here some credit for having brains, intelligence, and the ability to interpret information, OK? enough said. <BR> <BR>

No, St Maartin is not for those needing a sanitized vacation such as Disney or the Hilton. Folks, St Maartin is a third world country. I go there often on business, and find the people there genuine and real. It truely is run on Island time, no rushing. Ive never been offered drugs there, or bothered by hordes of higglers. In a third world country there are poor people. There are no amusement parks, and things are very laid back. I do visit orient beach often and the only problmes ive encountered there are gawking tourists ( the locals are ok with it) Any where you travel you will encounter crime. Use your common sense and youll be ok. I rellly dont encourage anyone to visit st maartin,,im selfish that way i suppose, because i want it to stay as it is.

We've visited St. Maarten/Martin 4 or 5 times, staying first on the Dutch side and then on the French. We didn't go back this year or the year before, because Orient Beach had become too busy and noisy for our taste. However, I want to stress that there is a real difference between the Dutch and the French side. Yes, in Philipsburg we were hassled constantly by vendors and timeshare people - very annoying! But Marigot is very different I think - a charming, French-Caribbean town (unless it has changed drastically over the past few years). We never felt unsafe anywhere on St. Maarten/Martin, except once when a dog followed us all the way to our hotel (I have a phobia for dogs - luckily he didn't bite!)....

I visited St. Martin in the summer of 2000 & thought it was the nastiest island I had ever seen. I have traveled to many islands in the Caribbean & this was by far the worst. I was there 8 agonizing days. I have never stayed all-inclusive because I like to experience the whole island thing & the only thing to see on St. Martin is trash everywhere, no trees, & general filth. The only positive I can say about this dirty island is the food was good. Would I travel back for the food? No!! I won't waste my money. St. Martin lover's can have this island all to yourselves since I won't come back. I'll spend my money on a nice island that's not trashy.

Karen,<BR><BR>At least you mention that it was in the summer of 2000. Do you not think that things may have changed in 1 1/2 years???<BR><BR>Thanks, but I prefer to value more current observations.

Don't know what soured Karen on St. Martin. Certainly different people have different tastes, and not everyone will like the place, but her characterization of it is grossly overstated, even for the summer of 2000.

everyone here is nuckinfutz

My extensive experience leads me to one conclusion: The bigtime cheerleaders for St. Martin are the Orient Beach types who prefer not to wear clothes on their vacations. They refer to those who wear swimsuits as "textiles" and, for the most part, they should keep their clothes ON, if you know what I mean. So as you read about St. M., keep that in mind. Personally, I agree that it's a dirty island with not much to offer, especially in comparison to so many other wonderful destinations in the Caribbean. And the crime? Yep. <BR><BR>

Oh boy, here comes the 18 month old thread again. Yes, yes, yes, I know -- it's filty, has nothing to offer, if you like it you must be a nudist, etc. etc. etc.<BR><BR>Just for the record, St. Martin is great. If I could go there tomorrow I would -- and I even wear clothes on the beach. But why waste my breath? If you have a hangup about something, just don't go. Nobody wants to see your grumpy face there anyway.

I can see it now; a portion of Susan's extensive experience. The scene Orient Beach.<BR><BR>Susan: "Why, hello people."<BR><BR>O.B. Couple: "Hello yourself, Susan. Why don't you remove your textiles and be naked like us."<BR><BR>Susan: "I would, but I'm too upset. Someone just stole my candy and threw the wrapper on the ground. It's so disgusting. And I don't want to have to look at your naked bodies either."<BR><BR>O.B. Couple: "Wow, we just can't wait to get home and write about this wonderful place on the internet. Talk to you later Susan. We need to go find some people that have their clothes on, so we can complain some more."

I have never been to St. Maarten and always want to go there because its the Caribbean. However, my boyfriend has been there and refuses to go for the reasons set forth in the other emails. I've now reconsidered. I don't want to go.

OH, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!!!! There is some amount of trash on every Caribbean island, I've ever been on...even on high end islands such as Anguilla & St. Bart's. If you can't look past it, STAY HOME. WHINE, WHINE, WHINE. If you want to really start up a whinefest go to St. Thomas. Along with the trash & poverty, you have traffic jams. Did you hear that.... MAJOR TRAFFIC JAMS! Boy could you people have a heyday with that!!!!!!!!!!! Get real.

I have to agree that SM is pretty nasty. I was shocked at the island after hearing so many great things about it. None of the pics that you see really reflect the condition of the island. There was trash on the beaches, in the water, & traffic from hell. I sat in Marigot for over 1 hr trying to get to the other side of the island. I personally do not recommend this island for any 1st timers as they would be shocked. I guess if you want a cheap caribbean vacation, St. Martin is perfect. You get what you pay for.....

.... or what you deserve.

Yes, the traffic is the worst in the Caribbean, and the condition of the roads is really terrible. Hurricanes tend to do that. <BR><BR>Agreed that first-timers should avoid St Martin like the plague. <BR><BR>And the whole nudist/textiles thing is hilarious! And probably true. Most St Martin aficionados are of the Orient Beach persuasion. To each his own, I guess. Better all these losers go to one place, I say!<BR>