In search of rum and revolution - Mr & Mrs Annhig go to Cuba.
Jan 29th, 2016, 02:56 PM
#21
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,823
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I had the anti-diarrhea meds with me as well. My DDIL and I got very ill after a pizza lunch near where we were staying. We could not attend the evening musical event. My DH stayed with us and DS and others attended.
Best advice is to be prepared!
DS and perhaps DH are going back in the spring.
Best advice is to be prepared!
DS and perhaps DH are going back in the spring.
Jan 30th, 2016, 12:59 AM
#23
anti-diarrhea meds are also very useful for my followers on the Dinner thread on Fodors. 
On a more serious note, it helps to check on the web about any water issues, arid seasons, heavy rains and inclusion of little cooked or uncooked ingredients in the local recipes of most countries you will be visiting, outside Europe and North America.
For mouth and teeth, there are portable chargeable or multi-voltage water picks which one can use with a bit of drinking water and a dash of mouthwash to replace brushing with city water.
How about recommended foot wear, sandals or trainers (sneakers) ?
On a more serious note, it helps to check on the web about any water issues, arid seasons, heavy rains and inclusion of little cooked or uncooked ingredients in the local recipes of most countries you will be visiting, outside Europe and North America.
For mouth and teeth, there are portable chargeable or multi-voltage water picks which one can use with a bit of drinking water and a dash of mouthwash to replace brushing with city water.
How about recommended foot wear, sandals or trainers (sneakers) ?
Jan 30th, 2016, 01:18 AM
#24
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You don't need to suffer with bad mattresses, pillows, no wifi nor TP if you stay in a decent hotel. We stayed in a great hotel on the outskirts of Old Havana, location was excellent and did not have any of these issues. The hotel had it's own cadeca. We booked it as independent travellers. Being independent does not equal having to stay in a casa particulare if you don't want to. If you have been to Russia pre 1991, you would have probably had enough of bathroom issues to last a lifetime. Cuba is a tropical Russia IMO. Outside of the hotel, yes it is advisable to take your own TP and anti bac gel/wipes/handwash etc.
Jan 30th, 2016, 02:12 AM
#25
You don't need to suffer with bad mattresses, pillows, no wifi nor TP if you stay in a decent hotel. We stayed in a great hotel on the outskirts of Old Havana, location was excellent and did not have any of these issues.>>
that's great Odin, good for you. We had read a lot about cuban hotels, particularly those in Havana, which was not complimentary and a lot about casas that was, which informed our choice. Having seen some of the bigger hotels in Havana I could see their point. However I suspect that in some ways that information is somewhat out of date, in that there has been a recent move to provide far more reasonably priced and well-run "boutique" style hotels and more upmarket casas both in old Havana and in a number of other places. The one place where we managed to stay in such a hotel [Sancti Spiritus] our experience was the same as yours. But in some tourist hot-spots such as Trinidad the hotel choices are very limited and very expensive and if, like us, you had not appreciated the necessity to pre-book a casa, you have to take what is available.
OC - we brushed our teeth in bottled water, having been warned by all the locals not to use the tap water in any circumstances.
Marianne - we were warned about eating "hole in the wall" or "peso pizzas" and never did, [particularly after it was a pizza albeit a normal one that did for me in Port Douglas] but friends of ours were eating them without any problem. I think that it is simply a matter of luck, when it comes down to it, whether you pick up something and how bad it is.
Thursdaysd - agreed. Except that I did exactly what I did in Sri Lanka, [my only trip to Asia, save 3 days in HK] and I never got ill there at all.
that's great Odin, good for you. We had read a lot about cuban hotels, particularly those in Havana, which was not complimentary and a lot about casas that was, which informed our choice. Having seen some of the bigger hotels in Havana I could see their point. However I suspect that in some ways that information is somewhat out of date, in that there has been a recent move to provide far more reasonably priced and well-run "boutique" style hotels and more upmarket casas both in old Havana and in a number of other places. The one place where we managed to stay in such a hotel [Sancti Spiritus] our experience was the same as yours. But in some tourist hot-spots such as Trinidad the hotel choices are very limited and very expensive and if, like us, you had not appreciated the necessity to pre-book a casa, you have to take what is available.
OC - we brushed our teeth in bottled water, having been warned by all the locals not to use the tap water in any circumstances.
Marianne - we were warned about eating "hole in the wall" or "peso pizzas" and never did, [particularly after it was a pizza albeit a normal one that did for me in Port Douglas] but friends of ours were eating them without any problem. I think that it is simply a matter of luck, when it comes down to it, whether you pick up something and how bad it is.
Thursdaysd - agreed. Except that I did exactly what I did in Sri Lanka, [my only trip to Asia, save 3 days in HK] and I never got ill there at all.
Jan 30th, 2016, 02:46 AM
#26
Ok - no avoiding it any more. I wrote this mid-trip as you will gather but it's as valid now as it was then.
Personal Health.
Sadly, I can't be very encouraging about this topic. However careful you are [and we have been very careful, only drinking bottled water, washing our hands regularly with soap and always after using the toilet, using anti-bacterial hand wash, etc.] it is highly likely you will suffer from some sort of stomach upset, and probably not just once. Thanks to FlannerUK, we bought what we thought were more than adequate supplies of anti-diarrhea medication with us, and we have almost used it all up [in fact we did manage to get through the trip without too many more difficulties - perhaps our systems were acclimatising]
Which brings me to my next subject - toilets. [Those of a delicate disposition should probably not read the next paragraph - however, if you can't bring yourself to read it, you possibly shouldn't be coming to Cuba, as like death and taxes, toilets are a reality for us all.]
Toilets - the good, the bad, and the downright ugly.
Good clean toilets with soap, a seat, paper, and somewhere to dry your hands do exist in Cuba, indeed I used one today, in the sister hotel to the one we are staying in in Sancti Spiritus, but they are few and far between. In fact they are so rare, I took a picture of this one. I also took a picture of our lovely bathroom in this hotel, which would be nothing remarkable at home, but here, with its big fluffy towels, mixer shower, large basin and hairdryer, it is a real novelty. The other end of the spectrum is all too common, particularly I have to say in Havana, even in quite decent places like top-end hotels and museums - no seats, no soap, paper handed out in measly amounts for which you have to pay, nowhere to hang a bag [and trust me you don't want to put a handbag on the floor], and worst of all the waste bin in the corner, overflowing with used toilet paper, a necessity caused by the poor plumbing throughout Cuba.
Bathrooms in the Casas we have stayed in have been better on the whole, but none of them have been perfect - they are not necessarily cleaned every day unless you ask, there may not be any soap, the shower may be temperamental, and there is always that noxious waste bin sitting in the corner. But none of them beats my all-time [so far] favourite which we came across on at a coffee plantation on a walk in Vinales - a wooden box in a corrugated iron shed. Square, and about the height of a normal toilet, the seat was constructed out of planks of wood over a deep hole over which one perched [or this one did] and did one’s business. The original earth closet. To be fair, there were no splinters, it was reasonably clean, there was a sink with running water and soap outside, and it was better than the facilities provided at the beginning and end of the walk we did a couple of days ago [for which we paid a fat 9CUC each as it was in a national park] - which was nothing!
Personal Health.
Sadly, I can't be very encouraging about this topic. However careful you are [and we have been very careful, only drinking bottled water, washing our hands regularly with soap and always after using the toilet, using anti-bacterial hand wash, etc.] it is highly likely you will suffer from some sort of stomach upset, and probably not just once. Thanks to FlannerUK, we bought what we thought were more than adequate supplies of anti-diarrhea medication with us, and we have almost used it all up [in fact we did manage to get through the trip without too many more difficulties - perhaps our systems were acclimatising]
Which brings me to my next subject - toilets. [Those of a delicate disposition should probably not read the next paragraph - however, if you can't bring yourself to read it, you possibly shouldn't be coming to Cuba, as like death and taxes, toilets are a reality for us all.]
Toilets - the good, the bad, and the downright ugly.
Good clean toilets with soap, a seat, paper, and somewhere to dry your hands do exist in Cuba, indeed I used one today, in the sister hotel to the one we are staying in in Sancti Spiritus, but they are few and far between. In fact they are so rare, I took a picture of this one. I also took a picture of our lovely bathroom in this hotel, which would be nothing remarkable at home, but here, with its big fluffy towels, mixer shower, large basin and hairdryer, it is a real novelty. The other end of the spectrum is all too common, particularly I have to say in Havana, even in quite decent places like top-end hotels and museums - no seats, no soap, paper handed out in measly amounts for which you have to pay, nowhere to hang a bag [and trust me you don't want to put a handbag on the floor], and worst of all the waste bin in the corner, overflowing with used toilet paper, a necessity caused by the poor plumbing throughout Cuba.
Bathrooms in the Casas we have stayed in have been better on the whole, but none of them have been perfect - they are not necessarily cleaned every day unless you ask, there may not be any soap, the shower may be temperamental, and there is always that noxious waste bin sitting in the corner. But none of them beats my all-time [so far] favourite which we came across on at a coffee plantation on a walk in Vinales - a wooden box in a corrugated iron shed. Square, and about the height of a normal toilet, the seat was constructed out of planks of wood over a deep hole over which one perched [or this one did] and did one’s business. The original earth closet. To be fair, there were no splinters, it was reasonably clean, there was a sink with running water and soap outside, and it was better than the facilities provided at the beginning and end of the walk we did a couple of days ago [for which we paid a fat 9CUC each as it was in a national park] - which was nothing!
Jan 30th, 2016, 04:18 AM
#27
OK - back to the trip report proper.
Day 2 - Collectivos and Culture shock.
Having woken early due to the time difference [or excitement!] we were well ready for breakfast when the time came and we weren’t disappointed, as Yanila provides a great buffet with choices of fresh fruit and juices, cake, bread, eggs [fried or tortilla] bacon/ham, cheese etc. plus coffee or tea. Perhaps the best breakfast we had anywhere in Cuba. As it was warm and sunny we were able to eat outside on the terrace and I kept interrupting my meal by going to check on what was going on in the road below particularly the cars which were a great fascination. How do they keep them on the road? Some are in great condition but others look as if they are on their last legs. And the range of vehicles - old american multi-coloured convertibles, modern european models, bikes, ancient ladas - it’s all here. An Australian family we met the night before [along with couples from France, Germany and Russia] offered to help us learn the ropes with the taxis, so after breakfast and a short but very informative lecture from Yanila about Cuba and Havana, we set out to venture into central Havana in a collectivo. From Vedado [the western area of Havana where our casa is], there are two choices - the southern collectivo line that runs along Linea and the northern one along Avenida 23. Once you get the hang of the numbers is very easy to navigate - roads or Calles going west to east are odd numbers and those going north-south are evens, so to say where you want to go, you give the Calle number, say Calle 17, Entre [between] 14 & 16. The collectivos only go along set routes, so you only need to say where along the route you want to be set off e.g. “entre 24 & 26”, if you are travelling towards Vedado, or, if like us you want to go to the centre of Havana, you simply ask for “Capitolio” and if the taxi is going there, you can get in, and pay your flat fare of ½ a CUC when you get out. Phew - I hope that’s not too complicated. Trust me - once you are there, it soon makes sense.
A collectivo with space for 5 soon turned up, so we piled in and after about 20 mins we were getting out again. You can spot the collectivos because they are old american cars, but there any resemblance to the beautiful ones you see in all the pictures of Havana ceases. These are the ancient wrecks of the automobile world, with windows fixed permanently open or closed, missing door handles, exposed metal work, yet still they keep going.
The route took us through Vedado and down onto the Malecon [the famous road that goes along the side of the sea-wall] then up through the terrible destruction of Centro district, to the very centre of Havana - the Capitolio, which will look very familiar to any americans, but is sadly shrouded in scaffolding and closed until further notice. After paying the fare [1CUC for us] we went our separate ways - the aussies to try to book a hotel for the end of their trip, and us to explore Havana for the first time. Wow. There is a nearby park bench free so we sit down and look at the map, trying to get our bearings. Then with map in hand, we set off down the side of the Capitolio, past the Grand Theatre and the Hotel Inglaterra and then ver off right, unable to resist the lure of Havana Vieja any longer. First stop though, a likely looking bar where we have our first mojitos and watch Havana go past. This bar became a regular haunt in central Havana - on a corner near Parque Centrale where the american convertibles wait for those willing to pay 30CUC for the privilege of being driven round in luxury for an hour, it was an ideal place for watching, and snapping, an amazing variety of vehicles and people.
In that first half hour, I must have taken at least 30 photos, ranging from the smartest american convertible, through bici-taxis and buses, to shopping trolleys piled high with random goods and a truck with a passenger standing up in the back on the top of the load, dancing away to music only he could hear. And then the man with the parrot who for a fee would sit on your shoulder and nibble your ear, the nut sellers with their songs, the Granma sellers [that’s a newspaper named after the boat on which Castro came to Cuba during the revolution, not people selling their abuelas] old ladies, girls in slightly too-tight clothing [a definite fashion in Cuba] sharply dressed men, and sadly disabled beggars. It’s all here on one corner in Havana.
Wow squared.
After only one mojito - I hope you are impressed with our forbearance - we tore ourselves away from the street show, and set off into Havana vieja proper. Again, this is mainly organised on a grid system, albeit with street names rather than numbers, so once you get your bearings, it’s relatively easy to find your way around. I say that - when we returned to Havana at the end of our trip and stayed in the Vieja district we felt quite at home but it’s easy to forget the feelings of amazement and anxiety which beset us on our first day. Many of the streets are perfectly normal with shops, bars and restaurants not dissimilar to those one might find in many places, but just a street or so away is a different world of dilapidated buildings, potholed pavements and what looks like extreme poverty. Yet wherever you are, you are completely safe even if at first, you don’t feel as if that could be possible.
I say that many of the streets are perfectly normal, but actually, I don’t think that’s really true. Many of the things you see and hear are uniquely Cuban - the shops providing rations to the locals [the only shops where non-locals can’t buy goods] the hole in the wall shops selling peso pizzas, pork sandwiches, ice-cream, fresh juice and whatever else they can get hold of for only a few CUPs, the CADECA and the ETECSA buildings with their perpetual queues, the bars with their bands performing cuban music from early morning til late at night, bici-taxis trying to get you to go for a ride, street traders with their “cold coconuts” for sale for a few pesos - all this amongst more “normal” shops selling clothes, shoes, souvenirs, bars and restaurants.
By now we were up for some lunch so we found a bar near the waterfront with a nice breeze and had some tapas and beer - our first taste of Cristal which became our least favourite cuban tipple. We also had a floor show in the shape of the arrival of a huge cruise liner which amazingly came into tie up without the help of a pilot boat. The food was ok, the rest a necessity, and we were only driven away when a band turned up and started to sing far too loudly the first of many renditions of “Guantalamera” that we were due to hear in the next 3 weeks.
The afternoon saw us wandering around the sights of Vieja - the Fort, the Cathedral, Plaza de Armas with its book stalls where I bought a book of cartoons for 5CUC, and the beautifully restored Plaza Vieja, after which we made our way back to Parque Centrale to try to get a collectivo back to our Casa. This was less easy than we’d hoped, but in the end, fortified by another round of mojitos from a nearby bar, we managed to find one that was going our way and, using our best [or worst spanish] persuade them to take us there.
After a rest and a shower we took advantage of Yanila’s offer to make us dinner [which we had preordered] and enjoyed a typical Cuban meal of bean soup, rice, chicken and pork, and salad, followed by the ubiquitous flan [creme caramel] and excellent cuban coffee. It was all very well cooked and served, but not actually very tasty, which we soon became aware is a feature of much cuban cooking, so subsequent evenings we chose to eat out, which was generally more successful though not without incident.
Not fancying going out into the Havana night [I wouldn’t turn a hair doing it now] and feeling quite tired we had an early night and were soon asleep. What would tomorrow bring?
Day 2 - Collectivos and Culture shock.
Having woken early due to the time difference [or excitement!] we were well ready for breakfast when the time came and we weren’t disappointed, as Yanila provides a great buffet with choices of fresh fruit and juices, cake, bread, eggs [fried or tortilla] bacon/ham, cheese etc. plus coffee or tea. Perhaps the best breakfast we had anywhere in Cuba. As it was warm and sunny we were able to eat outside on the terrace and I kept interrupting my meal by going to check on what was going on in the road below particularly the cars which were a great fascination. How do they keep them on the road? Some are in great condition but others look as if they are on their last legs. And the range of vehicles - old american multi-coloured convertibles, modern european models, bikes, ancient ladas - it’s all here. An Australian family we met the night before [along with couples from France, Germany and Russia] offered to help us learn the ropes with the taxis, so after breakfast and a short but very informative lecture from Yanila about Cuba and Havana, we set out to venture into central Havana in a collectivo. From Vedado [the western area of Havana where our casa is], there are two choices - the southern collectivo line that runs along Linea and the northern one along Avenida 23. Once you get the hang of the numbers is very easy to navigate - roads or Calles going west to east are odd numbers and those going north-south are evens, so to say where you want to go, you give the Calle number, say Calle 17, Entre [between] 14 & 16. The collectivos only go along set routes, so you only need to say where along the route you want to be set off e.g. “entre 24 & 26”, if you are travelling towards Vedado, or, if like us you want to go to the centre of Havana, you simply ask for “Capitolio” and if the taxi is going there, you can get in, and pay your flat fare of ½ a CUC when you get out. Phew - I hope that’s not too complicated. Trust me - once you are there, it soon makes sense.
A collectivo with space for 5 soon turned up, so we piled in and after about 20 mins we were getting out again. You can spot the collectivos because they are old american cars, but there any resemblance to the beautiful ones you see in all the pictures of Havana ceases. These are the ancient wrecks of the automobile world, with windows fixed permanently open or closed, missing door handles, exposed metal work, yet still they keep going.
The route took us through Vedado and down onto the Malecon [the famous road that goes along the side of the sea-wall] then up through the terrible destruction of Centro district, to the very centre of Havana - the Capitolio, which will look very familiar to any americans, but is sadly shrouded in scaffolding and closed until further notice. After paying the fare [1CUC for us] we went our separate ways - the aussies to try to book a hotel for the end of their trip, and us to explore Havana for the first time. Wow. There is a nearby park bench free so we sit down and look at the map, trying to get our bearings. Then with map in hand, we set off down the side of the Capitolio, past the Grand Theatre and the Hotel Inglaterra and then ver off right, unable to resist the lure of Havana Vieja any longer. First stop though, a likely looking bar where we have our first mojitos and watch Havana go past. This bar became a regular haunt in central Havana - on a corner near Parque Centrale where the american convertibles wait for those willing to pay 30CUC for the privilege of being driven round in luxury for an hour, it was an ideal place for watching, and snapping, an amazing variety of vehicles and people.
In that first half hour, I must have taken at least 30 photos, ranging from the smartest american convertible, through bici-taxis and buses, to shopping trolleys piled high with random goods and a truck with a passenger standing up in the back on the top of the load, dancing away to music only he could hear. And then the man with the parrot who for a fee would sit on your shoulder and nibble your ear, the nut sellers with their songs, the Granma sellers [that’s a newspaper named after the boat on which Castro came to Cuba during the revolution, not people selling their abuelas] old ladies, girls in slightly too-tight clothing [a definite fashion in Cuba] sharply dressed men, and sadly disabled beggars. It’s all here on one corner in Havana.
Wow squared.
After only one mojito - I hope you are impressed with our forbearance - we tore ourselves away from the street show, and set off into Havana vieja proper. Again, this is mainly organised on a grid system, albeit with street names rather than numbers, so once you get your bearings, it’s relatively easy to find your way around. I say that - when we returned to Havana at the end of our trip and stayed in the Vieja district we felt quite at home but it’s easy to forget the feelings of amazement and anxiety which beset us on our first day. Many of the streets are perfectly normal with shops, bars and restaurants not dissimilar to those one might find in many places, but just a street or so away is a different world of dilapidated buildings, potholed pavements and what looks like extreme poverty. Yet wherever you are, you are completely safe even if at first, you don’t feel as if that could be possible.
I say that many of the streets are perfectly normal, but actually, I don’t think that’s really true. Many of the things you see and hear are uniquely Cuban - the shops providing rations to the locals [the only shops where non-locals can’t buy goods] the hole in the wall shops selling peso pizzas, pork sandwiches, ice-cream, fresh juice and whatever else they can get hold of for only a few CUPs, the CADECA and the ETECSA buildings with their perpetual queues, the bars with their bands performing cuban music from early morning til late at night, bici-taxis trying to get you to go for a ride, street traders with their “cold coconuts” for sale for a few pesos - all this amongst more “normal” shops selling clothes, shoes, souvenirs, bars and restaurants.
By now we were up for some lunch so we found a bar near the waterfront with a nice breeze and had some tapas and beer - our first taste of Cristal which became our least favourite cuban tipple. We also had a floor show in the shape of the arrival of a huge cruise liner which amazingly came into tie up without the help of a pilot boat. The food was ok, the rest a necessity, and we were only driven away when a band turned up and started to sing far too loudly the first of many renditions of “Guantalamera” that we were due to hear in the next 3 weeks.
The afternoon saw us wandering around the sights of Vieja - the Fort, the Cathedral, Plaza de Armas with its book stalls where I bought a book of cartoons for 5CUC, and the beautifully restored Plaza Vieja, after which we made our way back to Parque Centrale to try to get a collectivo back to our Casa. This was less easy than we’d hoped, but in the end, fortified by another round of mojitos from a nearby bar, we managed to find one that was going our way and, using our best [or worst spanish] persuade them to take us there.
After a rest and a shower we took advantage of Yanila’s offer to make us dinner [which we had preordered] and enjoyed a typical Cuban meal of bean soup, rice, chicken and pork, and salad, followed by the ubiquitous flan [creme caramel] and excellent cuban coffee. It was all very well cooked and served, but not actually very tasty, which we soon became aware is a feature of much cuban cooking, so subsequent evenings we chose to eat out, which was generally more successful though not without incident.
Not fancying going out into the Havana night [I wouldn’t turn a hair doing it now] and feeling quite tired we had an early night and were soon asleep. What would tomorrow bring?
Jan 30th, 2016, 08:33 AM
#28
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,925
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello Annhig. Only just found this and signing on to read later. I was in Cuba independently 20 years ago and it is on my 'have wonderful memories and don't want to return and have them shattered' list. Maybe your TR will change that...
Jan 30th, 2016, 08:50 AM
#29
Hi gertie - welcome. I'm sure that Cuba has changed a lot in 20 years, in some ways for the good [it would only just have been coming out of the worst of the "Special Period" I suppose] and in some for the bad [eg the effects of rampant tourism in some areas]
I would be fascinated to learn about some of your memories and what you enjoyed about it so much.
I would be fascinated to learn about some of your memories and what you enjoyed about it so much.
Jan 30th, 2016, 08:50 AM
#30
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,823
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Annhig,
Your report is an amazing re-visit for me. Everything you have written is absolutely true - the beautiful, the good, the not so good, the very interesting and the things that are very concerning - all scattered wherever you went. An eye opener, for sure, and all of it was a special trip for all of us and we are so glad we went. I will be sure to have my husband and son read this prior to their next trip maybe coming up in the next few months.
By the way, the place we had pizza for lunch was lovely - a very nice restaurant near the casa and highly recommended. I think what happened is that the pizza delivered to our table was not the one we ordered. We chose not to have another one prepared for us as we had to attend a musical event and had little time. I am sure that they gave us what they wanted to in order to get it sold.
Marianna
Your report is an amazing re-visit for me. Everything you have written is absolutely true - the beautiful, the good, the not so good, the very interesting and the things that are very concerning - all scattered wherever you went. An eye opener, for sure, and all of it was a special trip for all of us and we are so glad we went. I will be sure to have my husband and son read this prior to their next trip maybe coming up in the next few months.
By the way, the place we had pizza for lunch was lovely - a very nice restaurant near the casa and highly recommended. I think what happened is that the pizza delivered to our table was not the one we ordered. We chose not to have another one prepared for us as we had to attend a musical event and had little time. I am sure that they gave us what they wanted to in order to get it sold.
Marianna
Jan 30th, 2016, 09:23 AM
#31
Marianna - glad that you're enjoying it and thanks for your comments. I didn't mean to imply that you hadn't been careful in your choice of pizza vendor, [though we were warned against peso pizzas, I hadn't assumed you had one] especially as it was an ordinary restaurant pizza that made me so ill in Australia.
Jan 30th, 2016, 09:28 AM
#32
Ann - hadn't realized SL and HK were your only Asian trips. Welcome to the developing world... Bins for used TP are standard in South America - don't know whether Rio has fixed its sewage system in time for the Olympics. Also Greece, I think, although I could be remembering that wrong. And squats with no TP are standard in Asia outside midrange and up hotels. (The locals use water.) Of course, Japan has amazing toilets.
Jan 30th, 2016, 10:04 AM
#33
thursdaysd - you're right, they are standard in Greece too, but I've never come across a place where they aren't emptied every day. Developing world or not, I can't see much excuse for that; apart from anything else, it must make the job of cleaning bathrooms far worse than it need be.
Not a single squat to be found in Cuba but I know about using water, and in SL everywhere had water to use but not so Cuba, except in our first Casa. In fact in Santa Clara there was no water at all, and some of the bathrooms were closed as a result. How the locals cope with this remains a mystery.
Not a single squat to be found in Cuba but I know about using water, and in SL everywhere had water to use but not so Cuba, except in our first Casa. In fact in Santa Clara there was no water at all, and some of the bathrooms were closed as a result. How the locals cope with this remains a mystery.
Jan 30th, 2016, 10:10 AM
#34
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,925
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HaHa Thursday. Japanese toilets never cease to amaze our visitors. There are automatic bidet-style ones even in public places like stations. We have even installed one in our house in TX. At least the instructions are in English.
Annhig, Cuba 20 years ago impressed me by being very green and tropical, the first place I had visited in the Caribbean. Old-style Spanish colonial hotels, no casas particulares, a few paladares to eat in but they were just starting. Music sprung up on every corner as we approached. Mojitos were $1. Lots of reconstruction going on as if they knew what was coming. No English spoken. Mainly independent travellers, the tour groups were shunted off to Varadero to the all-inclusive resorts. No cruise ships. No internet. Dodgy telephones. Frequent and unpredictable power-cuts.
I enjoyed the different culture as in Caribbean, Spanish and non-Eastern European communist. Amazing to chat with a North Korean family (in Spanish) who had opened a restaurant there in the 50s. It was like living in a history book.
Annhig, Cuba 20 years ago impressed me by being very green and tropical, the first place I had visited in the Caribbean. Old-style Spanish colonial hotels, no casas particulares, a few paladares to eat in but they were just starting. Music sprung up on every corner as we approached. Mojitos were $1. Lots of reconstruction going on as if they knew what was coming. No English spoken. Mainly independent travellers, the tour groups were shunted off to Varadero to the all-inclusive resorts. No cruise ships. No internet. Dodgy telephones. Frequent and unpredictable power-cuts.
I enjoyed the different culture as in Caribbean, Spanish and non-Eastern European communist. Amazing to chat with a North Korean family (in Spanish) who had opened a restaurant there in the 50s. It was like living in a history book.
Jan 31st, 2016, 02:18 AM
#35
well, it's not changed that much Gertie - it is still very tropical [and it rained quite a lot while we were there, despite its being the "dry season"], they are busy renovating the old style colonial hotels and building more new ones, and mojitos are still relatively cheap compared to the UK [average 3CUC]. There is some english spoken [out of the 5 Casas we stayed in, english was spoken in 3 of them, and very good english too] and most hotel, restaurant and bar staff speak english. There is still a lot of construction going on - they know that the americans are coming and are busy throwing up hotels wherever they can.
We came across tour groups in most places we went to, though not as many perhaps as we expected, but there are loads of independent travellers - I made a list of the countries from which the people we met came from, and got to 20, and those were people we actually spoke to and had a conversation with.
We were surprised to see that enormous cruise ship in Havana, but we understood that it was one of the first of the many that are expected. It's difficult to see how Cuba is going to be able to absorb a lot more people - Havana and Trinidad were more or less full, so far as we could see, and the transport system will need a substantial investment if it's going to cope.
As for living history, there are some things which strike one straight away - the antiquated transport, not just the old cars, but the use of horse drawn carts, and in the country, oxen, the slogans painted onto buildings, the lack of advertising,[so much so that often it is difficult to know what a shop is selling!] the names of some of the schools [I liked "the People's Republic of Korea Primary school"], the bureaucracy. But despite the antiquated wiring the phone and electricity systems appear to work well, there is internet and wifi, modern buses that arrive and leave on time, and kids who are plugged into their smart phones just like at home. It's still very different from other caribbean islands, but nothing like how it must have been 20 years ago,
We came across tour groups in most places we went to, though not as many perhaps as we expected, but there are loads of independent travellers - I made a list of the countries from which the people we met came from, and got to 20, and those were people we actually spoke to and had a conversation with.
We were surprised to see that enormous cruise ship in Havana, but we understood that it was one of the first of the many that are expected. It's difficult to see how Cuba is going to be able to absorb a lot more people - Havana and Trinidad were more or less full, so far as we could see, and the transport system will need a substantial investment if it's going to cope.
As for living history, there are some things which strike one straight away - the antiquated transport, not just the old cars, but the use of horse drawn carts, and in the country, oxen, the slogans painted onto buildings, the lack of advertising,[so much so that often it is difficult to know what a shop is selling!] the names of some of the schools [I liked "the People's Republic of Korea Primary school"], the bureaucracy. But despite the antiquated wiring the phone and electricity systems appear to work well, there is internet and wifi, modern buses that arrive and leave on time, and kids who are plugged into their smart phones just like at home. It's still very different from other caribbean islands, but nothing like how it must have been 20 years ago,
Jan 31st, 2016, 06:31 AM
#36
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,925
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, doesn't sound a lot different to be honest! I remember joining in dancing sessions in local community halls and even in the streets and plazas... mainly old people in the early evenings. That happens in south America too.
Just dug out some of my Cuba pictures and Trinidad is almost deserted. Beautiful place. Hope you got there. Looking forward to reading more.
Just dug out some of my Cuba pictures and Trinidad is almost deserted. Beautiful place. Hope you got there. Looking forward to reading more.
Jan 31st, 2016, 07:02 AM
#37
Annhig, thanks again.
We dicussed your visit and your views and decided that \:
- we may use our first chance to wallow in misery by visiting India rather than Cuba,
- This Summer, we should rather visit Seattle and Vancouver to be lost among retired-in-mind people with more realistic but colourless visions of the future.
I have lived too many years in chaotic circumstances, shared 1940's and 50's American cars cut in the middle and extended to seat three more; rode water buffalo carts eating broken watermelon bought for less than one Dollar, using only hands and teeth; used an outhouse by a river where there were turtles active below the hole as well as water snakes; ate great quantities of white beans and suffered the consequences; hitchhiked 300 miles in three days with not a penny in my pocket, sleeping on large pebbles at empty beaches (God bless the two American girls who may have been a hallucination who joined me part of the way with their saltines and blankets)
So, Eser, who started thinking she also lived through all that after listening to me narrate it too many times (sometimes accompanied by a piano) said, "Let us stay at fluffy pillowed inns, drive a decent car, meet some other neurotic people, take the same photographs taken by millions before us, listen to Jazz and country on the radio, be able to say that this is the 40th State we will have visited; and then remind each other that we are too old for regrets."
You do not write of deliriously joyful occasions or times of consternation and fear on this trip report. Even if you did not have such experiences, please embellish the rest of your report a little. Write of bugs, mosquitoes as big as swallows, harmless tarantulas which are protected by the state and roam all over; swarthy young men with goats' feet; naturally red-lipped pale black skinned young women who seem different when the moon is full, and such run-of-the-mill stuff, common to Cuba.
We dicussed your visit and your views and decided that \:
- we may use our first chance to wallow in misery by visiting India rather than Cuba,
- This Summer, we should rather visit Seattle and Vancouver to be lost among retired-in-mind people with more realistic but colourless visions of the future.
I have lived too many years in chaotic circumstances, shared 1940's and 50's American cars cut in the middle and extended to seat three more; rode water buffalo carts eating broken watermelon bought for less than one Dollar, using only hands and teeth; used an outhouse by a river where there were turtles active below the hole as well as water snakes; ate great quantities of white beans and suffered the consequences; hitchhiked 300 miles in three days with not a penny in my pocket, sleeping on large pebbles at empty beaches (God bless the two American girls who may have been a hallucination who joined me part of the way with their saltines and blankets)
So, Eser, who started thinking she also lived through all that after listening to me narrate it too many times (sometimes accompanied by a piano) said, "Let us stay at fluffy pillowed inns, drive a decent car, meet some other neurotic people, take the same photographs taken by millions before us, listen to Jazz and country on the radio, be able to say that this is the 40th State we will have visited; and then remind each other that we are too old for regrets."
You do not write of deliriously joyful occasions or times of consternation and fear on this trip report. Even if you did not have such experiences, please embellish the rest of your report a little. Write of bugs, mosquitoes as big as swallows, harmless tarantulas which are protected by the state and roam all over; swarthy young men with goats' feet; naturally red-lipped pale black skinned young women who seem different when the moon is full, and such run-of-the-mill stuff, common to Cuba.
Jan 31st, 2016, 08:19 AM
#38
You do not write of deliriously joyful occasions or times of consternation and fear on this trip report. Even if you did not have such experiences, please embellish the rest of your report a little.>>
OC - that is probably my British sang froid taking hold both in my experience of my experiences and my description of them. We had some really lovely times, and some positively irksome ones, but none that I would describe as deliriously joyful nor fearful.
I am sorry if I have put you off - that was never my intention. Never having been to India I can't comment on whether you would like that more, but I can say that we have been to Sri Lanka and we loved it, so much that we are planning to go again, despite the huge amount of the world that we have yet to see for a first time.
Marianne - we did not see many people out in the evening save tourists, and no impromptu dancing in the street either, sadly. As for Trinidad being a beautiful and deserted place, the centre has been beautifully restored but once you get outside that area it is really a dump, with unmade roads and many dodgy looking Casas - a victim of its own success I fear.
OC - that is probably my British sang froid taking hold both in my experience of my experiences and my description of them. We had some really lovely times, and some positively irksome ones, but none that I would describe as deliriously joyful nor fearful.
I am sorry if I have put you off - that was never my intention. Never having been to India I can't comment on whether you would like that more, but I can say that we have been to Sri Lanka and we loved it, so much that we are planning to go again, despite the huge amount of the world that we have yet to see for a first time.
Marianne - we did not see many people out in the evening save tourists, and no impromptu dancing in the street either, sadly. As for Trinidad being a beautiful and deserted place, the centre has been beautifully restored but once you get outside that area it is really a dump, with unmade roads and many dodgy looking Casas - a victim of its own success I fear.
Feb 1st, 2016, 07:51 AM
#39
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"You do not write of deliriously joyful occasions or times of consternation and fear on this trip report. Even if you did not have such experiences, please embellish the rest of your report a little.>"
Not wishing to hijack, but I covered similar ground to annhig a few weeks earlier.
Two months later, I'd say the most remarkable memory was the complete absence of "deliriously joyful occasions or times of consternation and fear". Probably less of either than anywhere - developing, developed or Scandinavian - I've ever been.
While Anne talks about an inner suburban area of Trinidad, for example, as "really a dump, with unmade roads and many dodgy looking Casas", she's absolutely right about the unmade roads - but IMHO (and I'm absolutely no apologist for the Cuban regime) she's misleading about "dodgy looking casas"
The area (I assume she means the barrio called Tres Cruces) is as full of cheap, ageing, houses as any poor city in Europe. But I didn't feel in the slightest threatened and saw no signs of violence, litter, begging, or real poverty of the sort I grew up surrounded by. Some of the houses were tatty: but far fewer than in Palermo or Naples.
What intrigued me about Cuba - and still fascinates me - was how absorbing it is in spite of the complete absence of the visible highs and lows you'd see elsewhere.
With the possible exception of the huge proportion of Havana and a few other cities that's undergoing UNESCO-subsidised conservation of potentially fabulous (and largely domestic) buildings, it's the oddity of the country, rather than any conventional "must-see" that sticks in the memory.
- Next to no visible police, or protection against crime or disorder
- Countryside that's at best quite nice. Sometimes
- A population that looks almost entirely moderately healthy: next to no obesity, no third world-style intense poverty, no strapping hyperfit young fashionplates
- The complete absence of most conventional urban features: no real advertising, no shop fascias, no serious public transport, no newspapers, no fashion shops. And no real open-air markets for Cubans
- The constant, ostensibly unthreatening, reminders of the local Committee for the Defence of the Revolution (CDR): the part Cuban Stasi, part local benevolent society, that quietly superintends (and, we were told, takes a modest cut from) all activity in its 100 metre by 100 metre slug of the town concerned.
- The complete absence of the sense of feared authority I've found everywhere else in the Communist world. Moans about the CDR were more like the complaints in my microtown about over zealous charity fundraisers than the continuing terror of the Securitate that pervaded post-Ceausescu Romania.
None of this constitutes a conventional holiday of a lifetime. But it was far more mentally engaging than yet another Greek temple or Leonardo-stuffed art gallery.
Not wishing to hijack, but I covered similar ground to annhig a few weeks earlier.
Two months later, I'd say the most remarkable memory was the complete absence of "deliriously joyful occasions or times of consternation and fear". Probably less of either than anywhere - developing, developed or Scandinavian - I've ever been.
While Anne talks about an inner suburban area of Trinidad, for example, as "really a dump, with unmade roads and many dodgy looking Casas", she's absolutely right about the unmade roads - but IMHO (and I'm absolutely no apologist for the Cuban regime) she's misleading about "dodgy looking casas"
The area (I assume she means the barrio called Tres Cruces) is as full of cheap, ageing, houses as any poor city in Europe. But I didn't feel in the slightest threatened and saw no signs of violence, litter, begging, or real poverty of the sort I grew up surrounded by. Some of the houses were tatty: but far fewer than in Palermo or Naples.
What intrigued me about Cuba - and still fascinates me - was how absorbing it is in spite of the complete absence of the visible highs and lows you'd see elsewhere.
With the possible exception of the huge proportion of Havana and a few other cities that's undergoing UNESCO-subsidised conservation of potentially fabulous (and largely domestic) buildings, it's the oddity of the country, rather than any conventional "must-see" that sticks in the memory.
- Next to no visible police, or protection against crime or disorder
- Countryside that's at best quite nice. Sometimes
- A population that looks almost entirely moderately healthy: next to no obesity, no third world-style intense poverty, no strapping hyperfit young fashionplates
- The complete absence of most conventional urban features: no real advertising, no shop fascias, no serious public transport, no newspapers, no fashion shops. And no real open-air markets for Cubans
- The constant, ostensibly unthreatening, reminders of the local Committee for the Defence of the Revolution (CDR): the part Cuban Stasi, part local benevolent society, that quietly superintends (and, we were told, takes a modest cut from) all activity in its 100 metre by 100 metre slug of the town concerned.
- The complete absence of the sense of feared authority I've found everywhere else in the Communist world. Moans about the CDR were more like the complaints in my microtown about over zealous charity fundraisers than the continuing terror of the Securitate that pervaded post-Ceausescu Romania.
None of this constitutes a conventional holiday of a lifetime. But it was far more mentally engaging than yet another Greek temple or Leonardo-stuffed art gallery.
Feb 1st, 2016, 07:52 AM
#40
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"You do not write of deliriously joyful occasions or times of consternation and fear on this trip report. Even if you did not have such experiences, please embellish the rest of your report a little.>"
Not wishing to hijack, but I covered similar ground to annhig a few weeks earlier.
Two months later, I'd say the most remarkable memory was the complete absence of "deliriously joyful occasions or times of consternation and fear". Probably less of either than anywhere - developing, developed or Scandinavian - I've ever been.
While Anne talks about an inner suburban area of Trinidad, for example, as "really a dump, with unmade roads and many dodgy looking Casas", she's absolutely right about the unmade roads - but IMHO (and I'm absolutely no apologist for the Cuban regime) she's misleading about "dodgy looking casas"
The area (I assume she means the barrio called Tres Cruces) is as full of cheap, ageing, houses as any poor city in Europe. But I didn't feel in the slightest threatened and saw no signs of violence, litter, begging, or real poverty of the sort I grew up surrounded by. Some of the houses were tatty: but far fewer than in Palermo or Naples.
What intrigued me about Cuba - and still fascinates me - was how absorbing it is in spite of the complete absence of the visible highs and lows you'd see elsewhere.
With the possible exception of the huge proportion of Havana and a few other cities that's undergoing UNESCO-subsidised conservation of potentially fabulous (and largely domestic) buildings, it's the oddity of the country, rather than any conventional "must-see" that sticks in the memory.
- Next to no visible police, or protection against crime or disorder
- Countryside that's at best quite nice. Sometimes
- A population that looks almost entirely moderately healthy: next to no obesity, no third world-style intense poverty, no strapping hyperfit young fashionplates
- The complete absence of most conventional urban features: no real advertising, no shop fascias, no serious public transport, no newspapers, no fashion shops. And no real open-air markets for Cubans
- The constant, ostensibly unthreatening, reminders of the local Committee for the Defence of the Revolution (CDR): the part Cuban Stasi, part local benevolent society, that quietly superintends (and, we were told, takes a modest cut from) all activity in its 100 metre by 100 metre slug of the town concerned.
- The complete absence of the sense of feared authority I've found everywhere else in the Communist world. Moans about the CDR were more like the complaints in my microtown about over zealous charity fundraisers than the continuing terror of the Securitate that pervaded post-Ceausescu Romania.
None of this constitutes a conventional holiday of a lifetime. But it was far more mentally engaging than yet another Greek temple or Leonardo-stuffed art gallery.
Not wishing to hijack, but I covered similar ground to annhig a few weeks earlier.
Two months later, I'd say the most remarkable memory was the complete absence of "deliriously joyful occasions or times of consternation and fear". Probably less of either than anywhere - developing, developed or Scandinavian - I've ever been.
While Anne talks about an inner suburban area of Trinidad, for example, as "really a dump, with unmade roads and many dodgy looking Casas", she's absolutely right about the unmade roads - but IMHO (and I'm absolutely no apologist for the Cuban regime) she's misleading about "dodgy looking casas"
The area (I assume she means the barrio called Tres Cruces) is as full of cheap, ageing, houses as any poor city in Europe. But I didn't feel in the slightest threatened and saw no signs of violence, litter, begging, or real poverty of the sort I grew up surrounded by. Some of the houses were tatty: but far fewer than in Palermo or Naples.
What intrigued me about Cuba - and still fascinates me - was how absorbing it is in spite of the complete absence of the visible highs and lows you'd see elsewhere.
With the possible exception of the huge proportion of Havana and a few other cities that's undergoing UNESCO-subsidised conservation of potentially fabulous (and largely domestic) buildings, it's the oddity of the country, rather than any conventional "must-see" that sticks in the memory.
- Next to no visible police, or protection against crime or disorder
- Countryside that's at best quite nice. Sometimes
- A population that looks almost entirely moderately healthy: next to no obesity, no third world-style intense poverty, no strapping hyperfit young fashionplates
- The complete absence of most conventional urban features: no real advertising, no shop fascias, no serious public transport, no newspapers, no fashion shops. And no real open-air markets for Cubans
- The constant, ostensibly unthreatening, reminders of the local Committee for the Defence of the Revolution (CDR): the part Cuban Stasi, part local benevolent society, that quietly superintends (and, we were told, takes a modest cut from) all activity in its 100 metre by 100 metre slug of the town concerned.
- The complete absence of the sense of feared authority I've found everywhere else in the Communist world. Moans about the CDR were more like the complaints in my microtown about over zealous charity fundraisers than the continuing terror of the Securitate that pervaded post-Ceausescu Romania.
None of this constitutes a conventional holiday of a lifetime. But it was far more mentally engaging than yet another Greek temple or Leonardo-stuffed art gallery.
