I'm not sure I agree with the last poster's comments. <BR> <BR>"stay home, and leave it for the rest of us to enjoy.....deal with it!!" <BR> <BR>What kinds of comments are those???? They sound awfully aggressive. <BR> <BR>Sorry to the previous poster....your comments are rude and inappropriate. <BR>

There seem to be two opposing "teams" on this thread: the "suck-it-up-and-get-used-to-crime-'cause-it's-everywhere" group, and the "don't-need-to-'cause-I-can-do-better" folks. <BR>My two cents worth is that if you contrast the national groups in the Virgin Islands you have to the West the USVI and to the East, the BVI. Comparing these reveals a startling difference based on their histories, their demographics, and their "parent" nations and cultures. <BR>My experience in St. Thomas has been pleasant, but in some ways I found I had to maintain the same sense of caution as if I was visiting a big American city in terms of it being a somewhat brusque and impersonal atmosphere. Note, I did not say unfriendly, but it seemed much like what I'd expect in an American city, as I said. <BR>The BVI, where I have gone for the past 10 years after about 8 years on St. Thomas, is only a 40 min ferry ride away, but is light-years in terms of its people, their friendliness, their charm, etc. It's such a more relaxing place to be; the people are so gentle and friendly. The real teller here is that in the BVI I have to struggle to try to be even half as cordial as they, whereas on St. Thomas I might as well be in downtown Atlanta in terms of peoples' behavior. <BR>So it depart from the whole crime thing for a bit, while that is a part of it, it is more so the demeanor of the people and the opportunity to experience something totally different and---in my opinion---much better.

Ah! there is a third group. One that recognizes that there is crime everywhere (yes, even in the BVI's) and that it is not a competition to see which island wins or is better. Some chose to realize that many can and do go to the USVI and can have a wonderful time despite those who set out to bash or promote an island at the expense of another. Or that everyone doesn't like and want the same thing. Each island offers unique opportunities - both good and not so good - but inflammatory posts that set visitors up so that they are paranoid and looking over their shoulder at every second does a disservice to the islands of the USVI and to the visitors who come home reporting that they were uncomfortable. Hell, of course they were. They were set up to expect that and told that's what they will get. You read it hear it enuf, you start to believe it. Then there are many who are familiar with the USVI find a wonderful retreat there! One of my most disappointing stays in the Caribb was a land-stay on Tortola, for many reasons, but there are many who enjoy and find Paradise there. The USVI are lovely islands that can and do present a wonderful opportunity for a stressfree trip that is different in many ways from the BVI and other islands. Each and every island is unique in every way! I recently "found" the Grenadines and Anguilla - both give me the feeling that I used to have in the BVI's and am eagerly anticipating my returns there as I find it's often hard to see the horizon with the numbers of boats blocking it as people find the BVI's. It's not a "secret" anymore and the times they are a changin' everywhere! There is plenty of competition out there for the tourist $$ but choices should be made on what best suits each individual travelers' wants and expectations. Better is a relative term. Sometimes I do think that if someone else chooses to stay home or even choses a different island, it leaves just a little bit more space on the beach for me! <BR>Happy Travels - and right now I would settle for any warm wonderful beach no matter which island (except Tortola ... ) <BR

Right on Karen!! I couldn't agree more. <BR> <BR>And to Linda: Rude & Inappropriate? Aggressive? Sorry Linda, I was stating cold hard facts, and the simple bottom line. As Karen said very clearly, "Sometimes I do think that if someone else chooses to stay home or even choses a different island, it leaves just a little bit more space on the beach for me! This is what I'm talking about. It's all very simple; some of us are not afraid to travel to these islands, and some of us are because of a few HIGHLY publicized reports of crime. If you are one of those folks that have been scared off by a few crime reports, I feel bad for you, but certainly won't lose any sleep over you leaving more space on the beach for me!! <BR> <BR>Is reality a bit scary? Maybe it is. But it will never keep me from enjoying my vacation in the caribbean. <BR>

Karen, you recommended www.cova.com in your discussion. I get a MetLife Investors site when I click on that link. What's up with that?

Darlene, <BR>Try www.cvoa.com <BR> <BR>Caribbean Villa Owners Assoc.

Thanks, Shari! <BR> <BR>So the CVOA is the Caribbean Villa Owners Association! I guess people who belong to that organization might get very defensive about reports of crime that might affect their livelyhood.

Funny you should mention that! I have several friends who do belong as owners and I have found those who own and rent villas in the islands probably the best source for factual information, where to go and what to avoid and can tell you what is happening now - now 10 years ago! I understand that cova also tie in pretty good air with their villas too. I have never used them but they do come highly recommended by people who do. Our home away from home is just that - not a rental or income property. And I never refer or comment on properties or villas in the USVI other than resorts. I have not one bit of investment in the travel industry other than as a consumer. Nice try tho! LOL

Darlene, <BR>Well, I suppose that's a plausible theory. Although I tend to agree with most of the sentiment that says, if you are nervous about going, you probably shouldn't go. And I don't own any Caribbean real estate (not yet, anyway. Hey, a girl can dream, can't she?) <BR> <BR>After all, people often try to make reality fit their expectations when possible. <BR> <BR>I am fortunate in that I have had opportunity to visit many different islands. Never felt unsafe, and a few times I went places that weren't really recommended (except as a "don't GO there" recommendation). But I also don't expect to find paradise on my travels. Now I won't say that crime doesn't exist in the islands, but I won't avoid them because it DOES.

Hi Liz. We visited Grand Cayman on our vacation last year and returned just yesterday from the USVI. Although I originally had concerns about villa break-ins as well, we thought St. John was absolutely fabulous and we *much* preferred it to the Caymans. The scenery is gorgeous, with another breathtaking view at almost every turn on the winding highways, and the beaches are picture postcard-perfect. I find it difficult to imagine a more idyllic place. St. Thomas was also nice, but we preferred the quiet beauty of St. John. Feel free to e-mail me if you have questions. Have a great vacation!

www.vinow.com just updated their web site with a St. John guide and there are some great shots of some of the many many beaches! Made me want to get on the plane tonite!

Congrats to the original poster "Liz" who (inadvertantly?) managed to weave a web that ensnared the "USVI-Or-Die" crowd, compelling them to provide amusement repeatedly with their angst-filled responses. <BR> <BR>Perhaps the high (or low?) point of the thread was someone's need, for some strange reason, to point out that the girls who were raped were "all residents except one who chose to sunbathe nude on a deserted beach". The person's need to disassociate from the villa owners assoc was precious. Also fun was the one who raged: "deal with it!!" and even proclaimed "Right On!!" to his cohort. <BR> <BR>The icing on the cake could be the ones who felt the need to claim they had been to both the Cayman Islands and USVI, but (surprise, surprise!) prefer USVI. It looks like adding the word "Cayman" to the original post "Crime in USVI" really payed-off, big time!

Jeff, <BR>No angst, no "love it or die" but happy to provide for your amusement. Seems the "nay sayers" to the USVI can say all they want, truth or die, but those who have differing experiences are taken to task and credibility attacked. Whatever floats your boat! Sure wish I could compare the two - maybe someday but I will continue to give accurate current information as long as I see the opposite. I don't promote the USVI but try to enlighten that its not the crime ridden horrid place that others try to paint it when promoting other islands. Not sure what the agenda is of those who love to bash it! Maybe they are part of the tourism industry on the other islands or have their own financial intersts. Who knows. Who cares? Not me!

Right on Karen!! I couldn't agree more!!

Here's what Frommer's 2002 guide says about USVI: <BR> <BR>"The U.S. Virgin Islands have more than their share of crime. St. John is safer than St. Thomas or St. Croix. But even on St. John there is crime - possessions that are left unattended are likely to be stolen. Travelers should exercise caution both day and night when wandering thee backstreets of Charlotte Amalie on St. Thomas and both Christiansted and Frederiksted on St. Croix - muggings are commonplace. Avoid night strolls or drives along quiet roads. Never go walking on beaches at night."

FYI, the US State Dept has a list of all countries and any warnings or advisories associated with them. I cannot find the USVI on this list, possibly because they consider it a part of the US? <BR> <BR>http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html <BR> <BR>The warnings don't vary much from country to country, except Jamaica's warnings are mainly limited to Kingston and downtown MoBay, the Bahamas warning is also limited to one area, (Jamaica and the Bahamas are the most visited Caribbean destinations). No island does not have "petty street crime occurs" in its consular info sheet - not even Bermuda (in fact Bermuda has a very specific rape warning as well as specific mention aobut robberies from hotel rooms "occupied or unoccupied")and the Caymans. <BR> <BR>If the possibility of being a victim of a crime is the main determining factor of what island you choose for your vacation, then good news - they're all pretty much the same, except in reputation! <BR> <BR Liz

Most (but not all) of the islands in "Fast Facts" section of Frommer's Guide have a few sentences detailing crime or safety warnings. The warnings range from very slight to severe. The nice thing about Frommers is that it's reputable and verifiable, whereas info on message boards is just a bit, well, you know.

likely to be stolen? I don't think so ... but otherwise pretty much on target. The trouble with Frommers the last time I checked with them, their restaurant info was sadly out of date! Restaurants on several islands that have been gone for years were still listed as places to go. When I see that I have to wonder about accuracy of other reports and info. My money would be on the info on the web ... you measure the good and the bad reports and you go with your best shot!

Message boards can be helpful, but they can also be full of people who post info they've heard, not experienced themselves - and they often do this not maliciously but just trying to be helpful. <BR> <BR>I see a lot of "avoid Jamaica it's dangerous" and when the poster is questioned, it often turns out that they hadn't been there at all, or only briefly at a cruise stop or didn't leave their hotel - certainly were not themselves victims of a crime there. <BR> <BR>Some "felt uncomfortable" (in part because they'd heard it was dangerous often enough that this alone made them uncomfortable), had heard from a friend of a friend, had been warned online and were just passing that along, etc. <BR> <BR>These things have a way of mushrooming online in a way that they don't elsewhere. <BR> <BR>There's just no substitute for direct experience. I take everything i read online (or off, in fact) with a grain of salt. <BR> <BR Liz

ohliz, <BR> <BR>Sounds to me like take this all WAY too seriously. Everyone knows this is just a typical message board, used by people for posting information, expressing opinions, venting, having fun, etc etc etc. No need to over-analyze or over-dramatize... <BR> <BR>;-) Joel