SambaChula

So....you still don't think the citations above are sufficient? Being more than a little deliberately obtuse.
I provided proof. Now YOU concede the point.

I'm concerned about friends who are good to me and have become family, of course. I don't like to think of them suffering because of lack of access to food and potable water or lack of relief from the extreme heat and humidity, and without a way to earn any income to sustain an extended family.
--------------------------------------
I certainly wish the best for those in PR who also went through hell and whose government seems to be a day late, a dollar short, and blaming it on the victims' own laziness. Many thousands are coming to the mainland, and time will tell how well they are received.
Do you have family in PR or do you think US lives are more important than any others?

This is a forum about Cuba, not PR, contributed to by more than US citizens, after all.

janisj

>>This is a forum about Cuba, not PR, contributed to by more than US citizens, after all.<<

Uh -- nope. Just FYI there is no 'Cuba Forum'. Nor PR, nor USVI, etc. There is one forum called the 'CARIBBEAN ISLANDS FORUMS'. One may tag a thread posted on the Caribbean Islands Forum for Cuba, but it is still there on the Caribbean Islands Forum.

If you look at the thread list currently the first 5 are tagged for Cuba, Cuba, Anguilla, Cayman Islands, Bermuda . . .

thursdaysd

Of course I don't think US lives are more important than any others in the general scheme of things. That is irrelevant. Cubans have their own country, and should have no more rights of access to the US than any other nationality. I do not support the stupid travel ban, nor the suspension of Cuban visas, but I don't think Cubans should have special access, either. Puerto Ricans are US citizens and their government should be taking better care of them. And no, I have no connection to PR.

Fine, one hotel. But a large mystery.

thursdaysd

@SambaChula - you are the one who lost your temper and chose to add multiple argumentative posts to a straightforward news report thread.

This seems to be a pattern for you. Instead of blaming others, maybe you should look in the mirror.

janisj - three posts
thursdaysd - five (now six) posts including the first
SambaChula - eighteen posts!


I tagged the thread and I have no problem with including PR. If you do maybe you should ask the moderators to add another tag.

Out of here.

SambaChula

That is clearly not what went on.

I gave some additional threads from the internet that discussed the issue, some irreverent, some more serious, so that readers might have a wider perspective.

My concern is not inciting panic in new and not well read travelers to Cuba when it is not necessary.

I stated a fact reported by a number of legitimate news agencies, that whatever was going on happened at one hotel only because......
"Making it "hotels" plural is not accurate. It also encourages naive people thinking whatever it was could happen to them at any hotel in Cuba, i.e. inciting panic where it is not warranted."

I mentioned that it ended the possibility of any Cubans getting visas to the US for any reason.

The fact that an incident occurred at only one hotel was then contested, with no supporting evidence to show more than one.
I simply objected to the pettiness of doing that, so common when I post, and went on to prove my point by giving numerous citations.

At that point, another topic entirely, that of PR, was introduced to hijack the original one.

SambaChula

And further reaction to the "warning":
https://hereishavana.com/2017/10/01/...-with-respect/

SambaChula

And this:
http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=127598

thursdaysd

Returning only to rescind my agreement that only one hotel was targeted.

From the AP:

"So to better identify patterns, investigators have created a map detailing specific areas of Cuba’s capital where attacks have occurred, several individuals familiar with the matter said. Three “zones,” or geographic clusters of attacks, cover the homes where U.S. diplomats live and several hotels where attacks occurred, including the historic Hotel Capri."

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...twork-in-cuba/

Bye.

SambaChula

That article was published TODAY, October 2, not September 29 when this thread was started, or for that matter in November when the incidents apparently started. We can only know the details that are published, as they are released.
Unless you have some private knowledge of "the darker, rougher world of spycraft and counterespionage"?

The article concedes that "it’s possible some workers attributed unrelated illnesses to attacks."

Unfortunately the "other" hotels are not named. And it was diplomats that were effected.
Nowhere is it stated that any incident occurred in a Cuban home, a casa particular, or to any tourist anywhere in Cuba.

The Canadian government, which also has some effected diplomats, but does not have a 50+ year, fraught, political relationship with Cuba, has not issued a travel warning for its citizens.

It also states that "The most obvious motive for attacking Americans in Havana would be to drive a wedge between the U.S. and Cuba." which is NOT to Cuba's advantage IMO, given the possible loss of tourism income and a harder line politically from the US.

And "Cuba has vehemently denied involvement or knowledge of the attacks. Some in the U.S. government believe the Cubans may be telling the truth, officials said."

As well, "For Cubans..... The U.S. has been providing 20,000 visas a year to Cubans moving to the United States. It has issued thousands more to Cubans wishing to visit family in America. The reduction in U.S. staff in Havana means visa processing there has been suspended indefinitely." which makes life harder.

Again, NO TOURISTS HAVE BEEN EFFECTED.
Again, NO CASA PARTICULAR HOMES HAVE BEEN EFFECTED.

Each traveler makes his/her own choice based on the latest information.
IMO there is no reason for a US tourist to not travel to Cuba, alongside tourists from the rest of the world.

suze

<you do not understand the significance or lack there of for US tourists of this US government travel warning, nor the importance of their continuing to travel to Cuba>


Probably why I did not say one single word about Cuba.

SambaChula

Ooops. Too quick with the cut and paste......

That guy wrote this article:
http://cubatravelwarning.com/

The article in:
http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=127612
was written by a Cuban who seems not to be fond of his government's policies on free press.

SambaChula

US plans to tell Cuba to downsize its embassy staff in DC because US sent its staff in Cuba home:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...embassy-staff/

thursdaysd

This is SO stupid.

It is a fact that the US government has advised US citizens not to travel to Cuba.

That is a fact that US citizens should be aware of, which why I started this thread. Whether or not they decide to ignore it is up to each individual traveler. I usually find the US State Dept. advice unnecessarily alarmist and check Canada, the UK and Australia as well. In this case I might give it greater weight as the situation is still unclear, and the potential harm not something I would want to experience.

The Cuban tourist industry managed for many years without US visitors, I doubt it is going to collapse if it has to do it again.

If SC had not gone nuts and kept posting to this thread it would already have sunk down the list. Instead he insists on keeping it alive with ever shriller posts that merely emphasis his personal partiality for Cuba, and his inability to engage in civilized discourse.

kja

Thanks for passing on the warning, thursdaysd.

SambaChula

Yes, DO read that article, as well as the ones in the other links, and be sure to look at the dates on each as new information seems to be put forward daily as this "mystery" is probed and information is released to the press and public. Only then can one be considered to be making an informed in order to make an informed to travel or not, based on all the information so far available, and not solely on propaganda/politics. Bear in mind that Canada, in the same position with effected diplomats, chose to handle the situation quite differently.

SambaChula

My "personal partiality for Cuba" has resulted in multiple trips and is a positive factor for exchanging information with Cubans in the island.

SambaChula

This is a message (today 10-5-17) from the president of the travel company Insight regarding the situation in Cuba:

Dear Fellow Traveler,

As an American travel company that has operated in Cuba for over 17 years, we have weathered all kinds of storms, both literally and figuratively. Through it all, safety and satisfaction of our guests have always been our number one priority. InsightCuba, along with many prominent companies in the travel industry firmly believe that Cuba remains a safe destination and continue to send travelers to Cuba without incident or concern, despite the recent travel warning issued by the U.S. Department of State.

I was in Havana last week and flights were full, hotels and restaurants were brimming with activity (I couldn’t even get a table at my three favorite restaurants), and guests on insightCuba tours were telling me stories of their favorite experiences. As a world traveler and someone who has dedicated a significant portion of my life providing travel to Cuba for Americans, I can say with absolute confidence that the last thing the Cuban government would ever do is put anyone in harm’s way, jeopardize tourism, or damage the positive relationship that has developed between Cuba and the U.S. over the past two years.

WHY DID THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE ISSUE A TRAVEL WARNING?
Since November of last year, the U.S. and Cuban governments have cooperatively investigated undetermined health issues reported by some U.S. and Canadian Embassy employees. Despite both countries’ best efforts, they are still unable to determine a cause of the health issues or the source. Furthermore, none of Cuba’s almost 4 million tourists, including 468,000 Americans, have experienced these symptoms according to the U.S. Department of State. Despite this fact, the U.S. Department of State surprised many in the global community by issuing a Cuba travel warning in response to these undetermined health issues.

CAN I STILL TRAVEL TO CUBA?
InsightCuba as well as commercial airlines, cruise ship operators, and hundreds of other travel providers firmly believe Cuba remains safe and whatever the cause or source of the diplomats’ illnesses, poses no threat to U.S. travelers. Commercial flights, cruises and our tours are currently operating. Furthermore, no other country has issued any travel warning or advisory, including the Canadian government who sends millions of tourists to Cuba each year.

Despite a reduction in Embassy staff in Washington D.C. and Havana, tourist visas for U.S. citizens are still available, and insightCuba has a sufficient supply for our travelers for the foreseeable future. The U.S. Embassy in Havana remains open to assist travelers as part of its mission and insightCuba is operating at full capacity. Moreover, travel to Cuba on a people-to-people tour remains 100% legal.

LIFE IS BACK TO NORMAL AFTER HURRICANE IRMA:
While in Havana, I, as well as many of our recent travelers, are happy to report that life is completely back to normal after Hurricane Irma. Everything I love and appreciate about this wonderful country is intact. I was actually hard pressed to notice any damage to infrastructure that would impact the daily lives of Cubans or visitors to the island.

In summary, all insightCuba tours are scheduled to depart as planned

Jeff_Costa_Rica

Insight pioneered the concept of people-to-people travel and their tours are top-notch. Some people complain that their excursions are "too expensive," and they do cost more than going on your own. But they are putting together experiences that individuals would have a hard time making happen on their own, and that's worth a lot.

Jeff_Costa_Rica

Here's my new take on the "Is it safe to travel to _______?" questions that always crop up about Cuba or Mexico or Brazil or Europe or any destination: Objectively, there may be no reason for concern. Subjectively, though, if the person is going to spend all their time worrying about crime or terrorism or weather or disease, real or imagined, then they shouldn't go. Travel costs money and vacation time is precious. Go somewhere you feel comfortable.

lovecuba

So far this incidents have only affected US Embassy Diplomats and the origins are still under investigation. No regular tourists have been affected by this problem, so I don`t see any reason why not to visit Cuba.

Though is it important to warn the people, the public media approach to this incidents are scaring potential visitors about an unclear threat.