Thanks for all the suggestions for my trip to Toronto, so here is my report. <BR>Stayed our first 2 nights at the Sutton Place, still very good (excellent) service, rooms are okay, nothing great, but that is to be expected for a property of this age. Also, we didnt stay in a "fancy" room there, just your standard room I suppose. Also, we were on the 4th floor, it was quite loud with the traffic, but I enjoyed the "city sounds"! <BR>Next 2 nights at the Hyatt, rooms are very good, service good, but just not that little "extra" I guess. Everyone very kind though. Its just the little things we noticed,ie: room service delivery: put down the tray, present the check and leave, whereas at the Sutton, its dispaly each thing ordered, set up the table where you choose, ask if there is anything else, check your ice bucket, then present the bill. But please, I am not saying the service at the Hyatt wasnt good, it was, its just the Sutton Place still has that edge. But all (or almost all) the staff we encountered at the Hyatt were very friendly and good. Lots of staff available at all times. Overall, we enjoyed being at the Hyatt more, probably for location and a nicer room for sure.<BR><BR>Got great rates at both hotels, package deal at the Sutton included parking, one in room movie per night and breakfast for two each morning, either in room or in the dining room. Ordered room serice both mornings and it was excellent! Had room service the night we first arrived and it was also quite good. Never ate a meal at the Hyatt at all, other than the last night there, we ordered a dessert and french onion soup "snack", dessert was excellent my husband said, but the french onion soup was terrible.<BR><BR>The Hyatt is in a great location, for those who dont know, located just a stones throw from Yorkville, easy to spend the afternoon wandering around, shopping, dining etc. The rooms are new (North Tower), quite large, nice bathrooms, all amenities one would expect. Housekeeping and turn down service was good at both hotels. Ice put in bucket, etc. Hyatt however, has no in room coffee maker. Husband wasnt pleased ! The Hyatt is a lovely hotel overall, very attractively done.<BR>Parking of course is steep in Toronto, and the Hyatt charges $25/day, pretty standard, but then it is valet only, so everytime you take your car in/out after a $5 tip each time it gets to be very costly parking there. Just thought I'd mention it. But if you walk everywhere you will be fine, or only take the car out once or twice a day. We walked mostly. Didnt do any "sights", this was a relaxation trip only, actually, didnt even shop! Wandered around Yorkville and Bloor, watched movies, languished in the spa, ahhhhhh, a great trip! <BR><BR>

Part 2:<BR>Stillwater spa: they lost our reservations, good thing I called to confirm with the hotel on Monday, so we went over to book in person. Couldnt get many times/treatments we wanted but did manage most of what we were hoping for. <BR>Had the body scrub, it was excellent! Absolutely the best I have had, and I've had a few. The pedicure was not great, for $67, for all of 35 minutes! I was told it was 50 minutes but for whatever reason, it was 35. But my toes look "pretty" my husband says! Facial was very good. Husband had the gentlemen's facial which he said was very good, and a sport pedicure which we had been told was the same as the Deluxe Spa Pedicure, only for men, minus the polish! Turns out thats not the case at all, no exfoliation, different seating (not the vibrating chair), etc. Quite disapppointed with that, not to mention the young girl at the reception who told us "Its better than nothing!" This after you have spent over $600 in there! Very disappointed in that attitude. <BR><BR>The other major disappointment was that after having my body scrub on my first afternoon, I tried to get one booked for my husband. Not possible we are told. Then yes, the next morning at 11:30, no, the computer wont accept it, Thursday morning then they say, but the computer wont accept that either, after 10 minutes they figure out its because they are "training" in that room and no apppointments can be booked in the morning. They only have 1 of these rooms that they do the body scrubs in. They put him on a waiting list, the next day I check again when I am down for more treatments and they have no record of the waiting list. Disorganized to say the least. <BR><BR>A few other things here about the spa. I guess I am being picky, but when you are sitting in the lounge for a half hour or so after receiving one treatment and waiting on the next one, I am used to it being quiet, peaceful. Watching the fish swim is a relaxant for me! Well, it was loud, three women having lunch on the other side, very loud, laughing etc., staff congregating just outside talking loudly over the other women. Just not what I expected. Maybe a seperate "lunch room" would be best. <BR>Also, met a woman who was staying there, having a polish change, and was quite upset she couldnt get an eyebrow wax, a 5 minute treatment she said. The suggestion is this: I know its a "day spa" for many local Torontonians, as discussed in an earlier post, but hotel guests should at least have some "time" reserved for them as well. Most guests of the hotel I met were disappointed that they couldnt get in. One laughed about the cards all over our rooms talking about the spa, enticing guests to call to book a service, but there were never any available! <BR>When I spoke to the hotel about it I was informed that yes, many guests complain, but as yet they were not going to do anything about it. Disappointing. I am grateful to Gayle on this site who suggested I book in advance or I would have been quite disappointed myself. All in all though, I was pleased with the services, as was my husband. <BR>

Part 3:<BR>Restaurants: Gayle, from this site, suggested a few and we also asked the concierge at the hotels. <BR><BR>Went to Sotto, Sotto, couldnt get in, so we went upstairs, which was a recommendation of the Sutton concierge. Cant remember the name of it now, maybe someone from TO will post it. Service was very good, very attentive, good timing etc. Sat in the front section with the windows wide open, (was able to smoke), all in all an enjoyable evening. Both my husband and I tried different veal dishes and they were both very good. Had 3 glasses of house wine, (they had a decent selection of by the glass) (my husband doesnt drink so I tend to order a glass or two or so...) two salads, two main courses, bottled water and coffee for my husband, all for $90. Thought it was very reasonable. Enjoyed our evening, it was a nice leisurely meal, with the warm night air etc. <BR><BR>Planned to get to Sotto, Sotto on our last night, but ate a very filling, huge late lunch and wound up ordering a snack from room service.<BR><BR>Lunched at Tony Bulloni's (sp), as suggested, was torn between the veal sandwich or spaghetti, and the waiter convinced me to have the "best" homemade spaghetti sauce. It was quite good and my husband had the pizza, good as well. The bread was excellent, if you like warm doughy bread, which I love, and we ate way too much for a late lunch! Service was friendly and efficient, we were only one of a few tables there as it was late in the afternoon. Lunch for 2 with a few cokes was $35, again very reasonable, considering how much food we ate! Had planned on going back just to try that veal sandwich the day we left but didnt. Someone tell me if its any good!<BR> <BR>The next post will cover our only truly disappointing meal in Toronto. Other than that we had room service most mornings and didnt usually eat lunch.

Part 4:<BR>Dinner at Harbour 60. Terrible! In one word, I cant decribe how disappointed we were in our choice for our "steak" night. I will give lots of details, for those who are interested, and my reason is that for the reputation and money, this place was not worth it. Both hotel concierges' recommended this restaurant, with the Hyatt "raving" about it. Both told us that Carmans' (our original plan to go with an old stand by) was now "old". We went expecting it to be very good.<BR><BR>First off, the concierge at the Hyatt made us reservations, and when I asked her for directions, she got out a map to show me, said she "felt better" when she looked at the map. I asked where it was in relation to the Harbour Castle, as a reference point, she replied "the Harbour Castle is on Front Street, the restaurant is on Harbour Street". For the people in Toronto, you know this is not correct for the HC. I should have stopped listening to her at that point!<BR>Her route was, go to Bay, straight down to Harbour street and you cant miss the restaurant. Its right there in front of you. I asked about just going down University to York but she said no, go over to Bay. I stress this because Harbour is a one way, and at Bay, you have missed the restaurant. Its in the block before Bay. Drove around for ten minutes trying to find it. Finally asked a cab. Next point: smoking or non, she asked when she made the reservation, smoking I said, she suggested we wouldnt want to eat in a bar in such an elegant restaurant! No problem we said, non smoking then. I agreed, we didnt want to eat in a bar.<BR><BR>

Part 5:<BR>Arrive at the restaurant, asked if we want smoking or non, ask if the smoking section is in the bar, not at all is the response. We have a lovely smoking dining room, small, off to the side. We look at it and decide it is quite cosy, perfect for an intimate, lesisurely meal. One other table in there with 2 gentlemen.<BR><BR>We are seated at 8:40. Waiter is in and out of the room tending to the other table. After about 5 minutes or so he arrives to take our drink orders, my husband has coffee, I am perusing the wine menu, which is very extensive I might add, and I would have loved to try a bottle or two of their selections. I toy with the idea of a 1/2 bottle, instead decide to try different glasses, as their selection is extensive in that department as well. Selcet my first one and off we go. He returns with the coffee and asks if we are ready to order. We havent even looked at the menu yet! So we do, we are starved we realize, and he promptly returns and takes our order. <BR><BR>Basic, boring steak house fare for us, 2 caesar salads, one filet, one new york. Both medium. One baked potatoe, one garlic mashed. We light a cigarette, I await my wine, the busboy/assistant arrives with bread and condiments, olives, etc. I await my wine. Salads arrive. Fresh ground pepper we ask? Of course. My wine perhaps? Of course. 3/4 through our salads, my wine finally arrives, a few more minutes and we are finished our salads, our waiter is hovering in the doorway, and our plates are whisked away. Wonderful, I think, things are looking better. We reach for a cigarette and our waiter motions the busboy/assistant in with our meals. "sorry they are so quick" and walks away as the plates are being put down in front of us. He (the waiter) is walking away with our empty salad plates, thats how fast this happened! I am dismayed. I say, well I'm not sure I am ready for my main course just yet. Response from waiter over his shoulder "I said I was sorry". Unbelievable!! I am not too pleased.<BR><BR>We arrived at 8:40, took 5-10 minutes to be served, ordered quickly within another 5 minutes or so, were served our salads almost immediately, and now our main course literally on the heels of our salads and it is now all of 9:10! I ask for butter for the baked potatoe but I needn't have bothered, it is overcooked and shrivelled up, hard as a rock on the outside, and cold. The waiter doesnt return to check on our meals. I cut into my steak and it is rare, not medium. This after a short discussion with the waiter when ordering, and him assuring me I would like their "medium" cooked beef. This is raw inside! I ate around the middle waiting for the waiter to return, my husband grumbles the steak is excellent but not too hot. Mine too is good, what I can eat of it. <BR><BR>Finally I flag down the busboy and request my steak be put back on the grill. Certainly he says and whisks it away. I finally have a few sips of wine while my husband eats alone and finishes his meal. My steak returns, properly cooked. We are both finished and it is now all of 9:30. Gourmet dining in under an hour! <BR><BR>After about 10-15 minutes our waiter clears our plates and as he is picking mine up says: was that cooked more to your liking the second time? Up until this point I didnt know if he even knew my steak had been returned. We chat for a few minutes, quite amicably, about other restaurants and cities and off he goes, offers my husband more coffee which he declines, and now we sit. And sit. And sit. Forget dessert my husband says. We flag him down now and ask for the check. It arrives about 10 minutes later. We sit and sit. Frustrated I finally pay in cash. It is now 10:10. Took us less time to order and eat than it did to get out of there! <BR><BR>

Part 5:<BR>Arrive at the restaurant, asked if we want smoking or non, ask if the smoking section is in the bar, not at all is the response. We have a lovely smoking dining room, small, off to the side. We look at it and decide it is quite cosy, perfect for an intimate, lesisurely meal. One other table in there with 2 gentlemen.<BR><BR>We are seated at 8:40. Waiter is in and out of the room tending to the other table. After about 5 minutes or so he arrives to take our drink orders, my husband has coffee, I am perusing the wine menu, which is very extensive I might add, and I would have loved to try a bottle or two of their selections. I toy with the idea of a 1/2 bottle, instead decide to try different glasses, as their selection is extensive in that department as well. Selcet my first one and off we go. He returns with the coffee and asks if we are ready to order. We havent even looked at the menu yet! So we do, we are starved we realize, and he promptly returns and takes our order. <BR><BR>Basic, boring steak house fare for us, 2 caesar salads, one filet, one new york. Both medium. One baked potatoe, one garlic mashed. We light a cigarette, I await my wine, the busboy/assistant arrives with bread and condiments, olives, etc. I await my wine. Salads arrive. Fresh ground pepper we ask? Of course. My wine perhaps? Of course. 3/4 through our salads, my wine finally arrives, a few more minutes and we are finished our salads, our waiter is hovering in the doorway, and our plates are whisked away. Wonderful, I think, things are looking better. We reach for a cigarette and our waiter motions the busboy/assistant in with our meals. "sorry they are so quick" and walks away as the plates are being put down in front of us. He (the waiter) is walking away with our empty salad plates, thats how fast this happened! I am dismayed. I say, well I'm not sure I am ready for my main course just yet. Response from waiter over his shoulder "I said I was sorry". Unbelievable!! I am not too pleased.<BR><BR>We arrived at 8:40, took 5-10 minutes to be served, ordered quickly within another 5 minutes or so, were served our salads almost immediately, and now our main course literally on the heels of our salads and it is now all of 9:10! I ask for butter for the baked potatoe but I needn't have bothered, it is overcooked and shrivelled up, hard as a rock on the outside, and cold. The waiter doesnt return to check on our meals. I cut into my steak and it is rare, not medium. This after a short discussion with the waiter when ordering, and him assuring me I would like their "medium" cooked beef. This is raw inside! I ate around the middle waiting for the waiter to return, my husband grumbles the steak is excellent but not too hot. Mine too is good, what I can eat of it. <BR><BR>

Part 6:<BR><BR>(Sorry for the previous double post)<BR> <BR>2 Caesar salads, 2 steaks, 1 baked potatoe, 1 garlic mashed, 1 glass of wine, 1 coffee: $153.00. We decide we will talk to the manager or hostess when we leave. We walk right by the waiter on our way out, he doesnt even say goodnight, thank-you, anything, we round the corner to the hostess area, she is in a conversation with two other gentlemen and we are completely ignored as we leave. No acknowledgement whatsoever. I must say the best service came from the valet! <BR>This was to me probably the worst service/meal I have had in a long time. We were fully prepared to pay the price, that is not my complaint, but with those prices we expect good service, good course timing and certainly more professionalism all around. When a restaurant is charging you 40+ for a steak and ?? for a baked potatoe, I would at least request they be cooked properly and served in a proper manner. And what angers me even more I guess is that I still tipped this guy 20%. It wasnt till we were driving back to the Hyatt that I started to think about all the other little things, no wine for 20 minutes, no return to check on us and our meals, etc. I guess I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt; my husband and I trying to make the best of the evening etc., but after we left and he couldnt even muster a goodbye, I was furious with myself for still feeling compelled to tip. Just something else we noticed while we where there: the other table of two gentlemen, had obviously been drinking a few bottles of wine, etc, they had another after we arrived, ordered their meal just before us, and where served after us, but not well I might add, when he served their main courses I overheard him say: sorry, the potatoes will be out in just a mimute. They arrived after they had finished eating. These guys didnt even notice however. Maybe thats the clientelle this restaurant needs, people who dont notice. Well, we certainly noticed, and this restaurant is lacking in all areas as far as we are concerned. <BR><BR>Did we hit them on a bad night? Maybe. Did we piss off the waiter because I ordered wine by the glass and my husband a coffee? Maybe. Did the kitchen screw up our order? Maybe. But all those things shouldnt happen or matter. With the attitude this place provides: in our intial conversation with our waiter we heard all about how Morton's beef is not as good as theirs, the waiters arent great, Hy's beef is terrible, Ruth's Chris is nowhere near as good as they are, etc., well, when you tout how "we are the best" you darn well better at least come close! And sadly, they didnt. <BR><BR>This was our only true disappointment, but it didnt ruin our trip or our evening for that matter, we went up to the bar at the Hyatt, and had a lovely view of the city while ending our evening on a positive note!<BR><BR>Hope some of the above info helps anyone out!<BR><BR>

I quess you didn't read my review on Fodors (and other sites) about Harbour House 60! I don't understand all the raves and wonder if they are plants from the management of the restaurant. I hope you will post your experiences so others may be spared the experience of dining there. It is the worst restaurant in Toronto, at least of those we have eaten in.

Dee: <BR>Unfortunately, it was suggested by the concierge and I did not have my computer with me. It had not been one of the original restaurants I had looked up. But I did read your review last night. I will post a review, just trying to figure out how to shorten it!I hate just saying I think something was awful, without giving reasons. And in this case, I realy dont think it is simply a matter of a differing "opinion", but truly a terrible dining experience. I appreciate your review now though, even if it came too late for us! Thanks.

We have had so many bad experiences with restaurants recommended by the hotel's concierge that we hardly ever take their recommendation. They are sometimes paid a fee by the restaurant when they make the reservation for you! After reading reviews of Soto Soto, we have chosen other restaurants. There are many, many great restaurants in Toronto.<BR><BR>We thought bottled wines at Harbour House 60 were over priced even for a restaurant. I think they were about 4 times retail when most restaurants charge 2 to 3 times retail. However, we did order a bottle of wine and still did not get good service.

Hi Sherry,<BR>I'm glad you had a good time, despite a few issues.<BR><BR>I feel terrible about Stillwater. You should let the General Manager know. His name is Paul Verciglio. The only reason I know this is because just today I received a $50 gift certificate in the mail with an accompanying letter from him thanking me for my patronage at the spa! As for the 35 minute pedicure and the incompetence at the desk, that's just inexcusable. Yes, unfortunately, the lounge can get a bit noisy. I too love to watch those fish. They're mesmerizing.<BR><BR>A few notes to other Fodorites reading your post. I think (Sherry can you confirm?) all of the costs you reference are in Canadaian dollars (not U.S.). Most Fodorites are U.S, so if you're a U.S. reader, remember to do the currency convserion for Sherry's figures.<BR><BR>OY!!! Harbour 60 is AWFUL!!!! I wish you would have emailed me!!! You should have stuck with Carman's. It may be very old fashioned but the food is great and the service is quite good. Well in comparison to Harbour 60, it's excellent, but then anything would be!<BR><BR>Glad you enjoyed Toni Bologni's and too bad you couldn't get into Sotto Sotto. Maybe next trip if you reserve way ahead.<BR><BR>For future reference, parking is much cheaper right across from the Hyatt on Cumberland in the public indoor lot. You would have spent $18CDN (I think) for 24 hours and not had to tip. Oh well.

Gayle,<BR>Yes to confirm, the prices quoted are all in Canadian $. Certainly cant beat travelling in Canada these days if you are from the US! <BR>Thanks for your kind comments, we really did enjoy ourselves. Certainly picked the right week weather-wise! Like that snow this morning???? Geeesh, when is spring here for good? All in all, it was a good trip, hadn't relaxed in TO for years. And yes, next time I will stick with my old standby Carman's, or the Octagon was good the few times I was there on business. <BR> <BR>Regarding the parking, thats a good tip Gayle, I wonder though if the rate will allow the in and out privilege? That is one advantage to the Hyatt. Frankly it didnt bother me, just thought I would mention it so that those who are going may be aware. We tended to walk around mostly, only took the car out for dinner.<BR>Congrats on the gift certificate! Put that to use toward a body scrub with Jean! She is also a massage therapist, and I really think the scrub was fabulous. <BR>Thanks again for all your help! As always, Toronto was great!

Wow! what a great review of your trip, sorry you had those disappointments tho. I think the restaurant you went to when you couldn't get into Sotto Sotto was called Spuntini's. Also, next time you're in town try The Pasta Bar at Scaramouche. It's on Avenue Road 5 minutes (by car) north of the Hyatt.

Thank you Bonnie, yes that was the name of the restaurant: Spuntini's. Very friendly owner and good service from the staff.