Passports Will be Required for Canada
Apr 6th, 2005, 08:29 AM
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Passports Will be Required for Canada
It now looks like all American citizens will be required to have passports to travel to Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, the Caribbean and South America.
For Canada, air and sea travel will be affected first, by the end of 2006.
Land border crossings will be affected by the end of 2007.
The pooper scooper I read said the intent was to "expedite" the passage of legitimate border crossers.
If the harassment I have received lately is an indication of expeditious border crossing, heaven help us.
Given that all cruise line passengers headed for Caribbean, Mexican, and South American ports will be affected, my guess is that the run on passports will be heavy. If you need to get a new passport, the fee is $97 plus the cost of the photographs. If you want to buy a new one expedited, tack on another $60.
I bet the response will be so slow that the $60 will be necessary if you want renewal in less than 9 months.
For Canada, air and sea travel will be affected first, by the end of 2006.
Land border crossings will be affected by the end of 2007.
The pooper scooper I read said the intent was to "expedite" the passage of legitimate border crossers.
If the harassment I have received lately is an indication of expeditious border crossing, heaven help us.
Given that all cruise line passengers headed for Caribbean, Mexican, and South American ports will be affected, my guess is that the run on passports will be heavy. If you need to get a new passport, the fee is $97 plus the cost of the photographs. If you want to buy a new one expedited, tack on another $60.
I bet the response will be so slow that the $60 will be necessary if you want renewal in less than 9 months.
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:52 PM
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I guess so. The Canadians are now the enemies of the US and the border is either shorter or a lot less expensive to patrol and the US government has such a huge surpluss now that coming up with the money to patrol the border is no problem. This step, added to our wonderful airport security is surely going to make the US safe from harm.
Apr 7th, 2005, 05:38 AM
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Borealis...
I don't understand your logic. What does crossing from Canada have to do with 11/09? None of the subhumans garbage that are now rotting in hell came into the US from Canada....what we are saying is that Canada cannot be trusted to do as good a job as the wonderful US immigration in protecting their borders.
It is really interesting...in the EU the emphasis has been on removing borders between countries so that if one enters the Netherlands at Amsterdam international airport, one does not have to show one's passport at the border with Germany and then the border with Austria and then the border with Italy. There is a perfunctory check going into Switzerland but Europeans can use their identity cards and also going into the UK. In the next several years, this treatment will be extended to countries such as Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic.
Certainly the relationship between the United States and Canada, despite the current administration's ignorance, is at least as good as the relationship between Germany and France.
It is indeed a matter of trust...what's next the fingerprinting of Canadians and the picture taking?
Does anybody really think this will help in the war on terrorism that we've been told we"re in?
Get real.
I don't understand your logic. What does crossing from Canada have to do with 11/09? None of the subhumans garbage that are now rotting in hell came into the US from Canada....what we are saying is that Canada cannot be trusted to do as good a job as the wonderful US immigration in protecting their borders.
It is really interesting...in the EU the emphasis has been on removing borders between countries so that if one enters the Netherlands at Amsterdam international airport, one does not have to show one's passport at the border with Germany and then the border with Austria and then the border with Italy. There is a perfunctory check going into Switzerland but Europeans can use their identity cards and also going into the UK. In the next several years, this treatment will be extended to countries such as Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic.
Certainly the relationship between the United States and Canada, despite the current administration's ignorance, is at least as good as the relationship between Germany and France.
It is indeed a matter of trust...what's next the fingerprinting of Canadians and the picture taking?
Does anybody really think this will help in the war on terrorism that we've been told we"re in?
Get real.
Apr 7th, 2005, 05:48 AM
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>>>Borealis...I don't understand your logic.<<<
Having observed Borealis's posts over a period of time, I don't believe that she herself subscribes to that logic. I believe she was quoting the professed logic of the people who have the power to make the decisions.
Having observed Borealis's posts over a period of time, I don't believe that she herself subscribes to that logic. I believe she was quoting the professed logic of the people who have the power to make the decisions.
Apr 7th, 2005, 11:40 AM
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I'm a little confused. The original post says that American citizens will be required to have passports to travel to Canada, Mexico, etc. But, many of the replies all seem to imply that the US government is being unfriendly or distrusting. Wouldn't that criticism make more sense if the original post had said that the citizens of Canada, Mexico, etc. would be required to have passports to enter the US rather than the other way around?
Maybe I'm seeing things clearly -- I've got the flu and my head feels like it's in a bucket.
Maybe I'm seeing things clearly -- I've got the flu and my head feels like it's in a bucket.
Apr 7th, 2005, 11:41 AM
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Just trying to remember...
Didn't some of the 9/11 terrorists come into the US via Canada? I thought I remembered that.
And just wondering...
Those of you against the idea of passports to cross back in to America, do you also think it is unnecessary for travel to Bermuda, Mexico, Bahamas, and Caribbean? I think other countries are required to have passports for travel there. Why shouldn't Americans need the same?
Or is it only for Americans re-entering the US that the passport will be required?
Thanks for any additional info.
Didn't some of the 9/11 terrorists come into the US via Canada? I thought I remembered that.
And just wondering...
Those of you against the idea of passports to cross back in to America, do you also think it is unnecessary for travel to Bermuda, Mexico, Bahamas, and Caribbean? I think other countries are required to have passports for travel there. Why shouldn't Americans need the same?
Or is it only for Americans re-entering the US that the passport will be required?
Thanks for any additional info.
Apr 7th, 2005, 01:13 PM
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"Just trying to remember...
Didn't some of the 9/11 terrorists come into the US via Canada? I thought I remembered that."
It's a popular urban myth in the States, but none of them arrived from Canada.
Didn't some of the 9/11 terrorists come into the US via Canada? I thought I remembered that."
It's a popular urban myth in the States, but none of them arrived from Canada.
Apr 7th, 2005, 01:22 PM
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Dreamer2, none of the September 11 terrorists entered the USA from Canada. There was a line of inquiry about a ferry from Nova Scotia but when checked out the answer was no. However the legend lives on...
There are two reasons why we will not see European style border crossings between Canada and the USA anytime soon. One is that the USA will not want to trust anyone else with its security. The other is that the necessary harmonization of immigration and refugee rules will not wash in Canada.
My opinion is that this will have the effect of fewer Americans visiting Canada because they will not be sufficiently motivated to go to the expense and hassle of obtaining passports for the family. They can go to a lot of places within their own country. Many of the remaining Canadians without passports will now get one.
There are two reasons why we will not see European style border crossings between Canada and the USA anytime soon. One is that the USA will not want to trust anyone else with its security. The other is that the necessary harmonization of immigration and refugee rules will not wash in Canada.
My opinion is that this will have the effect of fewer Americans visiting Canada because they will not be sufficiently motivated to go to the expense and hassle of obtaining passports for the family. They can go to a lot of places within their own country. Many of the remaining Canadians without passports will now get one.
Apr 7th, 2005, 01:33 PM
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Actually the 'Urban Myth' re 9/11 terrorists arriving from Canada originates from confusing the potential terrorist who tried to cross via the Ferry from Victoria to Washington State with explosives and, apparantly, plans to blow up LAX. After 9/11 the Media and I suppose the US authorities focused on Canada as the potential source of the terrorists.
Shortly after 9/11 a few suspected cells of Islamic Militants were found in Canada but almost all have subsequently been cleared as cases of over-reaction by Canadian authorities or for lack of clear evidence. In any event the fact is that there was virtually no link to the 9/121 terrorists and Canada.
Shortly after 9/11 a few suspected cells of Islamic Militants were found in Canada but almost all have subsequently been cleared as cases of over-reaction by Canadian authorities or for lack of clear evidence. In any event the fact is that there was virtually no link to the 9/121 terrorists and Canada.
Apr 7th, 2005, 05:51 PM
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Catching the potential millenium terrorist at the ferry shows the quality of cooperation between Canada and the US, I think. The 9/11 Commission Report goes into the problems with lax security within the US intelligence community and administration prior to the 9/11 tragedy. As Pogo used to say, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
Nope, the only sense I can make of the passport requirement is that it is revenue enhancing, and Lord knows, our budget needs that! Now if they would only require passports between States, we might justify another tax cut and be able to support still another war!
Nope, the only sense I can make of the passport requirement is that it is revenue enhancing, and Lord knows, our budget needs that! Now if they would only require passports between States, we might justify another tax cut and be able to support still another war!
Apr 7th, 2005, 06:12 PM
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Thanks Judy - that's exactly what I meant - 9/11 changed the way that decisions are made, and even the perception of security and how to achieve it.
There were more unsettling "incidents" than just that fellow in Victoria; I seem to remember that there was also a woman attempting to smuggle something (weapons? explosives??) from Ontario into the US at about the same time, all of which led to the opinion that the Canada-US border is "porous".
There were more unsettling "incidents" than just that fellow in Victoria; I seem to remember that there was also a woman attempting to smuggle something (weapons? explosives??) from Ontario into the US at about the same time, all of which led to the opinion that the Canada-US border is "porous".
Apr 7th, 2005, 06:36 PM
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Well, it is indeed porous, and passports won't plug it up. If you are right, Borealis, then someone thinks they will change public perception with this requirement. I don't hear people saying the airport controls are worth the money and hassle, though. People know that huge vulnerabilities are being ignored. I mean, who is buying this stuff? Not the public that I know, and not the media. It's some politicians perspective of what will look good. Noone seems to agree, but we aren't being given a choice.
Apr 7th, 2005, 08:54 PM
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Not long ago, we had a family reunion in Puerto Vallarta. Our family is scattered over California and Texas. My grandmother paid for 23 of us to go and we all had a wonderful time.
I think only my Mom had a passport; the rest of us hadn't been out of the US for quite a while. It sure would have added a lot of extra money if we'd all had to get them.
Maybe they should exempt children. That would put less of a damper on family vacations.
I was considering taking my extended family to Cancun next January. We'd need to get passports for my daughter 12, her friend also 12, my grandmother 90, my daughter in law, and my infant grand-daughter. Hmm, that's around $500.
So now what do I have to give up? Our rental car? Stay in a cheaper place? Give up Xcaret? Not go diving?
Those are the kinds of choices ordinary families will have to make.
They'll rethink this when tourism to Mexico and Canada drops precipitously. Money makes the world go 'round, when it comes down to it.
Passports can be faked too. Anyone who wants to sneak in will just take a chance along one of the long borders. If they get caught one time, they'll just try again.
I recently took care of a patient who came across the border illegally, he said it took him 6 tries. So now he's here; with active TB. In the hospital. Guess who's paying for it? He doesn't have an American passport. Nobody's going to send him home. If they do, he'll just come back again.
Once again, the eminent powers that be have managed to come up with a stupid idea that doesn't hurt or keep out the bad people. They'll come with passports, perfect visas, everything in order to prevent any suspicion.
This only hurts middle class Americans who thought they'd take a little family vacation somewhere not too far away. Just great, now our population can become even more isolated and ethnocentric than we already are.
I think only my Mom had a passport; the rest of us hadn't been out of the US for quite a while. It sure would have added a lot of extra money if we'd all had to get them.
Maybe they should exempt children. That would put less of a damper on family vacations.
I was considering taking my extended family to Cancun next January. We'd need to get passports for my daughter 12, her friend also 12, my grandmother 90, my daughter in law, and my infant grand-daughter. Hmm, that's around $500.
So now what do I have to give up? Our rental car? Stay in a cheaper place? Give up Xcaret? Not go diving?
Those are the kinds of choices ordinary families will have to make.
They'll rethink this when tourism to Mexico and Canada drops precipitously. Money makes the world go 'round, when it comes down to it.
Passports can be faked too. Anyone who wants to sneak in will just take a chance along one of the long borders. If they get caught one time, they'll just try again.
I recently took care of a patient who came across the border illegally, he said it took him 6 tries. So now he's here; with active TB. In the hospital. Guess who's paying for it? He doesn't have an American passport. Nobody's going to send him home. If they do, he'll just come back again.
Once again, the eminent powers that be have managed to come up with a stupid idea that doesn't hurt or keep out the bad people. They'll come with passports, perfect visas, everything in order to prevent any suspicion.
This only hurts middle class Americans who thought they'd take a little family vacation somewhere not too far away. Just great, now our population can become even more isolated and ethnocentric than we already are.
Apr 8th, 2005, 03:47 AM
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Borealis...
I seem to remember that there was a woman attempting to smuggle something (weapons? explosives??) from New Jersey into New York at about six months ago. So I guess we should set up passport check points at the GW Bridge, the Holland Tunnel, the Lincoln Tunnel, set up passport controls at Penn Station for everybody coming off NJ Transit, at the Port Authority Bus Terminal and at the PATH station. That will make all of us in NYC feel much more secure. So what if it will inconvenience people. After all, there may be people smuggling cheaper booze across the state lines...
Yes I know Canada is another country but as an American, I trust Canadian officials to do their job just as well as I trust US officials.....this is just another example of trying to give people this sense that we are doing something in the so called "war" on terrorism the US administration would like us to believe we are in (where was our concern for the war on terrorism when IRA terrorists were bombing the hell out of British targets...many Americans thought they were just trying to preserve their liberty.....don't jump on me, I am hardly equating what happened on 11/09/01 as far as magnitude is concerned, but terrorism is terrorism. Our British friends wanted help deporting several suspected IRA terrorists and there was resitance...remember that.
Yes there are problems that require a world wide effort but alienating our close friends and neighbors will not solve the problem one iota, unfortunately and just lead to inconvenience millions.
I seem to remember that there was a woman attempting to smuggle something (weapons? explosives??) from New Jersey into New York at about six months ago. So I guess we should set up passport check points at the GW Bridge, the Holland Tunnel, the Lincoln Tunnel, set up passport controls at Penn Station for everybody coming off NJ Transit, at the Port Authority Bus Terminal and at the PATH station. That will make all of us in NYC feel much more secure. So what if it will inconvenience people. After all, there may be people smuggling cheaper booze across the state lines...
Yes I know Canada is another country but as an American, I trust Canadian officials to do their job just as well as I trust US officials.....this is just another example of trying to give people this sense that we are doing something in the so called "war" on terrorism the US administration would like us to believe we are in (where was our concern for the war on terrorism when IRA terrorists were bombing the hell out of British targets...many Americans thought they were just trying to preserve their liberty.....don't jump on me, I am hardly equating what happened on 11/09/01 as far as magnitude is concerned, but terrorism is terrorism. Our British friends wanted help deporting several suspected IRA terrorists and there was resitance...remember that.
Yes there are problems that require a world wide effort but alienating our close friends and neighbors will not solve the problem one iota, unfortunately and just lead to inconvenience millions.
