Vancouver - Rockies Itinerary help
Jun 9th, 2008, 02:25 PM
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Vancouver - Rockies Itinerary help
Flights aren't booked yet but hoping to visit Vancouver/The Rockies in September. After reading this forum I've got a rough itinerary but I've got a couple of questions. Will 2nd/3rd week in Sept be too late to visit for fine weather?
Day 1 Arrive Vancouver (pm)
Day 2-5 Vancouver (is this too long to spend in Vancouver/it's surroundings?) Would you recommend spending one of these nights in Victoria?
Day 6 Drive to Kamloops or Kelowna (which would be the nicer drive?)
Day 7 Now would it be better to drive up to Jasper or drive across to Banff?
Day 8-12 Rockies
Day 13 Fly out of Calgary
Thinking about 2 days in Jasper and 3 days in Banff. Does that feel about right? If we drive from Kamloops or Kelowna to Banff then it probably means a bit of back tracking between Jasper and back to Banff, unless there are any other suggestions.
Any thoughts regarding the route would be greatly appreciated.
Day 1 Arrive Vancouver (pm)
Day 2-5 Vancouver (is this too long to spend in Vancouver/it's surroundings?) Would you recommend spending one of these nights in Victoria?
Day 6 Drive to Kamloops or Kelowna (which would be the nicer drive?)
Day 7 Now would it be better to drive up to Jasper or drive across to Banff?
Day 8-12 Rockies
Day 13 Fly out of Calgary
Thinking about 2 days in Jasper and 3 days in Banff. Does that feel about right? If we drive from Kamloops or Kelowna to Banff then it probably means a bit of back tracking between Jasper and back to Banff, unless there are any other suggestions.
Any thoughts regarding the route would be greatly appreciated.
Jun 9th, 2008, 04:10 PM
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Hi dmjapril
You pose a very challenging question.
Let me answer the weather question first. That early in September should be fine weather wise, but nights might be chilly.
Of course what I say is my own opinion, and I am sure others will differ.
I think a visit to Victoria would be nice. There are two prime places to visit there: Butchart Gardens and the Royal British Columbia Museum.
The rest of the time will enable you to get a good look at Vancouver.
There are many interesting places in that city, but to me, a non garden person, Butchart is special.
The BC museum is one of the best museums I have visited. It is not overpoweringly huge and the exhibits are very well done.
Now for the drive to the Rockies.
It will take whole long day.
There two ways to do it and each has its drawbacks.
If you decide on Kamloops, the Coquihalla Freeway (toll road) is the quickest way, but the route through the Fraser River canyon is more scenic.
If you drive from Kamloops to Jasper, you will have a long stretch of road which to me was a little boring until you get to Mt. Robson provincial park. The mountain itself is the highest in the Canadian Rockies and well worth the view IF its head is not in the clouds!!
From Jasper you can then drive south on the Icefields Parkway and enjoy many miles of incredible mountain scenery.
Now lets take the other option, driving to Banff.
I suggest that you drive to Kelowna first. Then drive north to the Trans Canada Highway and head east over Rogers Pass in Glacier National Park, continue on to Golden and drive through Yoho National Park.
If you spent the night in Golden you would have time to visit Emerald Lake and Takkakaw Falls before continuing on to Lake Louise.
The problem arises in how you sandwich in the Icefields Parkway.
I think that is a must, but if you approach that way, you are at the southern end of the parkway.
From Jasper and would need to retrace your steps unless you took a different route to Calgary, like going through Edmonton, which is slightly longer and not very exciting.
In terms of taking the Rogers Pass route you will see more scenery, but it develops the problem of how and when to drive the spectacular Icefields parkway.
There is a distinct advantage to backtracking as you pointed out.
First, the parkway does not look the same going in the opposite direction. Second, you would have a chance to see what you did not see the first time!!
If you drive through Manning Provincial park on your way to Kelowna, you will see additional scenery. That would then be augmented the following day during your drive toward Banff.
OK How would I do it?
I would take the Kelowna option, but try to find a place in Field,BC to stay overnight. There is a motel there. Spend the night in Field and go north on the Icefields Parkway the next day.
From Jasper I would retrace my steps to Banff.
Then on to Calgary for the flight back.
There is one small hitch to this plan. You will have to pay a drop fee on your rental car that is non trivial.
In all my trips we have done a loop out of Calgary.
One year we drove all the way to Prince Rupert, took the ferry south to Vancouver Island, drove the length of the island to Victoria, took the ferry across to Vancouver, drove through Manning Park (overnight stay) and went on to Field the next day.
Then back to Calgary to return the car where be rented it.
Bear in mind though that this is essentially a win - win situation.
You will have spectacular viewing regardless of how you do it.
You pose a very challenging question.
Let me answer the weather question first. That early in September should be fine weather wise, but nights might be chilly.
Of course what I say is my own opinion, and I am sure others will differ.
I think a visit to Victoria would be nice. There are two prime places to visit there: Butchart Gardens and the Royal British Columbia Museum.
The rest of the time will enable you to get a good look at Vancouver.
There are many interesting places in that city, but to me, a non garden person, Butchart is special.
The BC museum is one of the best museums I have visited. It is not overpoweringly huge and the exhibits are very well done.
Now for the drive to the Rockies.
It will take whole long day.
There two ways to do it and each has its drawbacks.
If you decide on Kamloops, the Coquihalla Freeway (toll road) is the quickest way, but the route through the Fraser River canyon is more scenic.
If you drive from Kamloops to Jasper, you will have a long stretch of road which to me was a little boring until you get to Mt. Robson provincial park. The mountain itself is the highest in the Canadian Rockies and well worth the view IF its head is not in the clouds!!
From Jasper you can then drive south on the Icefields Parkway and enjoy many miles of incredible mountain scenery.
Now lets take the other option, driving to Banff.
I suggest that you drive to Kelowna first. Then drive north to the Trans Canada Highway and head east over Rogers Pass in Glacier National Park, continue on to Golden and drive through Yoho National Park.
If you spent the night in Golden you would have time to visit Emerald Lake and Takkakaw Falls before continuing on to Lake Louise.
The problem arises in how you sandwich in the Icefields Parkway.
I think that is a must, but if you approach that way, you are at the southern end of the parkway.
From Jasper and would need to retrace your steps unless you took a different route to Calgary, like going through Edmonton, which is slightly longer and not very exciting.
In terms of taking the Rogers Pass route you will see more scenery, but it develops the problem of how and when to drive the spectacular Icefields parkway.
There is a distinct advantage to backtracking as you pointed out.
First, the parkway does not look the same going in the opposite direction. Second, you would have a chance to see what you did not see the first time!!
If you drive through Manning Provincial park on your way to Kelowna, you will see additional scenery. That would then be augmented the following day during your drive toward Banff.
OK How would I do it?
I would take the Kelowna option, but try to find a place in Field,BC to stay overnight. There is a motel there. Spend the night in Field and go north on the Icefields Parkway the next day.
From Jasper I would retrace my steps to Banff.
Then on to Calgary for the flight back.
There is one small hitch to this plan. You will have to pay a drop fee on your rental car that is non trivial.
In all my trips we have done a loop out of Calgary.
One year we drove all the way to Prince Rupert, took the ferry south to Vancouver Island, drove the length of the island to Victoria, took the ferry across to Vancouver, drove through Manning Park (overnight stay) and went on to Field the next day.
Then back to Calgary to return the car where be rented it.
Bear in mind though that this is essentially a win - win situation.
You will have spectacular viewing regardless of how you do it.
Jun 10th, 2008, 11:32 AM
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Wow bob_brown !!! - thank you very much for the comprehensive reply. That's a great help. I was leaning towards the drive from Kelowna to Banff, up to Jasper and then retracing my steps back to Banff, but it's good to get others advice.
One more question. If I wanted to go whale watching, am I better to take a tour from Victoria or Vancouver?
One more question. If I wanted to go whale watching, am I better to take a tour from Victoria or Vancouver?
Jun 10th, 2008, 12:30 PM
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I have not done any whale watching on my trips to Victoria - Vancouver. As a result I don't feel like I can give you a good answer.
I just re read my two ?? answers and some of it was poorly worded. I was in a hurry.
Let me reflect on a few more points in this post.
Given the distance and time constraints, I am not sure of the best approach. I have done both of the drives mentioned in my duplicated posting.
I think you will get more scenery if you take the route over Rogers Pass on the Trans Canada Highway.
If you drive from Kamloops to Rogers Pass, the road is not particular good. It is not bad in terms of road surface, but it passes through populated areas.
That is why I suggested driving to Kelowna via Manning Provincial Park which is along the southern border of British Columbia.
At the crest of Rogers Pass, which is in Glacier National Park, there is a fair to good visitor center. From the area around the visitor center you can get a good look at the peaks of the Selkirk and Purcell Ranges.
The drive from Rogers Pass to Golden is down hill as you descend to the Columbia River valley.
On this route you will actually cross the Columbia twice. Near Revelstoke it is flowing south while at Golden it is flowing north.
Obviously the river makes a U turn north of Glacier Park. [As an aside, there is often some contributor who thinks I am hallucinating because they think Glacier National Park is in the US. Well, it is, but Canada has one, too.]
When you cross the Columbia at Golden, you are actually crossing a major fault line in the earth's surface: The Rocky Mountain Trench, which is visible from outer space.
The trench marks the area where two tectonic plates rubbed together. Strictly speaking most of British Columbia came from somewhere else when the North American plate collided with island terranes in the Pacific.
After you cross the Columbia you start a steep ascent in the Kicking Horse River canyon and enter Yoho National Park.
There are several good place to visit in Yoho that are easy to access. Emerald Lake is worth a short stop and Takkakaw Falls is worth a few breaths of wonder as you look at a glacial stream plunge about 800 feet down the side of the valley.
From the hamlet of Field, you are about 14 highway miles from Lake Louise Village. The southern terminus of the Icefields Parkway is to your left [north] as the Trans Canada turns more toward the south. The junction is well marked.
There is so much to see along the Icefields Parkway that I urge you to make the drive all the way to Jasper. Unfortunately there are not many over night accommodations along the parkway. I know of only 3 until you get close to Jasper: The Crossing, Num Ti Jah Lodge, and the motel at the Icefields Parkway visitor center.
The Crossing also has a restaurant and a gas station which is about the only place you can get gas between Lake Louise and Jasper.
Although you would be retracing your steps if you drive south on the parkway, I feel that it is still rewarding because you get an entirely different perspective of the scenery.
The parkway itself has no extremely steep hills, but it does cross a few passes. The surface of the road is (or has been) quite good considering the climate.
At any rate, you will see a lot and enjoy a lot of beautiful views.
I just re read my two ?? answers and some of it was poorly worded. I was in a hurry.
Let me reflect on a few more points in this post.
Given the distance and time constraints, I am not sure of the best approach. I have done both of the drives mentioned in my duplicated posting.
I think you will get more scenery if you take the route over Rogers Pass on the Trans Canada Highway.
If you drive from Kamloops to Rogers Pass, the road is not particular good. It is not bad in terms of road surface, but it passes through populated areas.
That is why I suggested driving to Kelowna via Manning Provincial Park which is along the southern border of British Columbia.
At the crest of Rogers Pass, which is in Glacier National Park, there is a fair to good visitor center. From the area around the visitor center you can get a good look at the peaks of the Selkirk and Purcell Ranges.
The drive from Rogers Pass to Golden is down hill as you descend to the Columbia River valley.
On this route you will actually cross the Columbia twice. Near Revelstoke it is flowing south while at Golden it is flowing north.
Obviously the river makes a U turn north of Glacier Park. [As an aside, there is often some contributor who thinks I am hallucinating because they think Glacier National Park is in the US. Well, it is, but Canada has one, too.]
When you cross the Columbia at Golden, you are actually crossing a major fault line in the earth's surface: The Rocky Mountain Trench, which is visible from outer space.
The trench marks the area where two tectonic plates rubbed together. Strictly speaking most of British Columbia came from somewhere else when the North American plate collided with island terranes in the Pacific.
After you cross the Columbia you start a steep ascent in the Kicking Horse River canyon and enter Yoho National Park.
There are several good place to visit in Yoho that are easy to access. Emerald Lake is worth a short stop and Takkakaw Falls is worth a few breaths of wonder as you look at a glacial stream plunge about 800 feet down the side of the valley.
From the hamlet of Field, you are about 14 highway miles from Lake Louise Village. The southern terminus of the Icefields Parkway is to your left [north] as the Trans Canada turns more toward the south. The junction is well marked.
There is so much to see along the Icefields Parkway that I urge you to make the drive all the way to Jasper. Unfortunately there are not many over night accommodations along the parkway. I know of only 3 until you get close to Jasper: The Crossing, Num Ti Jah Lodge, and the motel at the Icefields Parkway visitor center.
The Crossing also has a restaurant and a gas station which is about the only place you can get gas between Lake Louise and Jasper.
Although you would be retracing your steps if you drive south on the parkway, I feel that it is still rewarding because you get an entirely different perspective of the scenery.
The parkway itself has no extremely steep hills, but it does cross a few passes. The surface of the road is (or has been) quite good considering the climate.
At any rate, you will see a lot and enjoy a lot of beautiful views.
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:29 PM
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It doesn't matter if you depart from Vancouver or Victoria to go whale watching as regardless of where you depart from, you'll end up going to watch the same pods of whales. Tours based out of Victoria tend to be cheaper but you also spend less time on the water. Tours based out of Vancouver are more, but you spend up to 5 hours on the water.
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:39 PM
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The things I learn about my own province from Bob Brown!
He's right that it's a win-win situation. I don't have a favourite route to the Rockies - I like them all. Might you consider omitting Victoria, cutting down time in Vancouver and driving a circle route back to Vancouver?
He's right that it's a win-win situation. I don't have a favourite route to the Rockies - I like them all. Might you consider omitting Victoria, cutting down time in Vancouver and driving a circle route back to Vancouver?
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:05 PM
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Hi April
Thanks for the suggestion - the idea of flying out of Calgary was to try and cut down on some of the driving. Looking at flight times, potentially we have 14 days. Are you suggesting the circle route back to omit the one way rental charge of a hire car? What is the fee approximately? On some websites it doesn't actually state what the additonal local charge is.
Thanks for the suggestion - the idea of flying out of Calgary was to try and cut down on some of the driving. Looking at flight times, potentially we have 14 days. Are you suggesting the circle route back to omit the one way rental charge of a hire car? What is the fee approximately? On some websites it doesn't actually state what the additonal local charge is.
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:30 PM
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Yes, I was suggesting the circle route because of the rental fees but also because I like the drive. I find it quite relaxing compared to, say, blasting down the I-5 with semitrailers all around. Sorry I don't know what the drop off fees are, but from what others have written here in the past, it sounds like it could be quite high.
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:48 PM
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If you rent in Vancouver and return the car at the Calgary airport, the cost is $1386.00 for a Chevy Impala,
(Avis prices for 13 days 23 hours.)
If you get the car in Calgary and return the car in Calgary, the charge is about $560.00 (Canadian).
That means the cost is more than double if you do a one way. Also no insurance or other fees are included in the price.
That is why I have never done anything other than a big loop from Calgary.
One year we flew to Calgary, drove to Field for a few nights, then north along the Icefields Parkway, and then turned west all the way to Prince Rupert.
From Prince Rupert we took the long ferry ride to Port Hardy on the tip of Vancouver Island. We drove the whole length of the island to Victoria to visit Butchart Gardens and the BC Museum. (We never got beyond the Egyptian exhibits because they were so good. But it was our 3rd time around. We got to hear a presentation how mummies were made. Fascinating.)
Then we drove via Manning Provincial Park to Kelowna and turned north to the Trans Canada and over Rogers Pass to Calgary.
The main reason was the cost of the one way rental. The reward was beautiful scenery all the way it seems.
That stretch across British Columbia was remarkable for the forests.
(Avis prices for 13 days 23 hours.)
If you get the car in Calgary and return the car in Calgary, the charge is about $560.00 (Canadian).
That means the cost is more than double if you do a one way. Also no insurance or other fees are included in the price.
That is why I have never done anything other than a big loop from Calgary.
One year we flew to Calgary, drove to Field for a few nights, then north along the Icefields Parkway, and then turned west all the way to Prince Rupert.
From Prince Rupert we took the long ferry ride to Port Hardy on the tip of Vancouver Island. We drove the whole length of the island to Victoria to visit Butchart Gardens and the BC Museum. (We never got beyond the Egyptian exhibits because they were so good. But it was our 3rd time around. We got to hear a presentation how mummies were made. Fascinating.)
Then we drove via Manning Provincial Park to Kelowna and turned north to the Trans Canada and over Rogers Pass to Calgary.
The main reason was the cost of the one way rental. The reward was beautiful scenery all the way it seems.
That stretch across British Columbia was remarkable for the forests.
Jun 10th, 2008, 04:58 PM
#10
One thing you might consider:
Get a flight to Vancouver with a stopover allowed in Calgary.
In Calgary you could rent a car for a mini-circle trip for 5 to 7 days:
Drive Calgary, Banfff, Lake Louise, Athabasca Icefields Highway, Jasper, Edmonton, Calgary.
or
(my favorite) Calgary, Lake Louise, Athabasca Icefields Highway to the Icefields (about 1/2 way), then the David Thompson Highway (Hwy. 11) to Red Deer, thence Calgary.
At Red Deer you could consider continuing east to Drumheller to see the Tyrell Museum of Paleontolory (one of the very best!) thence Calgary.
Then fly to Vancouver, which is definitely worth 5 to 7 days. Consider an overnight drive to Whistler. And/or a ferry cruise through the Gulf Islands (maybe stopping for a day of laziness) to Victoria on Vancouver Island for a day or 2.
The above gives you the highlights of both the Rockies, the Canadian Prairies, and Vancouver and its surroundings while avoiding the long 10 hours or more of driving between them and reducing the one way rental fee.
Sometimes stopovers don't cost much more than a flight straight through. Many fare websites don't show stopovers, but look at Itasoftware.com ... in my mind one of the very best sources of fares - log in as guest - and click on the "multi-segment" tab.
Get a flight to Vancouver with a stopover allowed in Calgary.
In Calgary you could rent a car for a mini-circle trip for 5 to 7 days:
Drive Calgary, Banfff, Lake Louise, Athabasca Icefields Highway, Jasper, Edmonton, Calgary.
or
(my favorite) Calgary, Lake Louise, Athabasca Icefields Highway to the Icefields (about 1/2 way), then the David Thompson Highway (Hwy. 11) to Red Deer, thence Calgary.
At Red Deer you could consider continuing east to Drumheller to see the Tyrell Museum of Paleontolory (one of the very best!) thence Calgary.
Then fly to Vancouver, which is definitely worth 5 to 7 days. Consider an overnight drive to Whistler. And/or a ferry cruise through the Gulf Islands (maybe stopping for a day of laziness) to Victoria on Vancouver Island for a day or 2.
The above gives you the highlights of both the Rockies, the Canadian Prairies, and Vancouver and its surroundings while avoiding the long 10 hours or more of driving between them and reducing the one way rental fee.
Sometimes stopovers don't cost much more than a flight straight through. Many fare websites don't show stopovers, but look at Itasoftware.com ... in my mind one of the very best sources of fares - log in as guest - and click on the "multi-segment" tab.
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:13 AM
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That's a possible idea to do an internal flight between Calgary and Vancouver. What Canadian airlines are there that operate between Vancouver and Calgary that are fairly reliable and relatively cheap?
Jun 11th, 2008, 10:27 AM
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"Canadian airlines" and "relatively cheap" in the same sentence is an oxymoron. However, I did notice that Westjet has a sale on right now for travel booked before June 12, up to August 31.
Westjet and Air Canada are the main two carriers in Canada.
Westjet and Air Canada are the main two carriers in Canada.
Jun 15th, 2008, 03:38 AM
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Thanks for all the advice so far. Flights are now booked from the UK. Just starting to get my head around the driving distances between places and what there is to see and do but I could still do with some advice regarding the best amount of time to stay in places.
These are my thoughts so far:
Day 1 - Fly from UK to Vancouver (arrive early pm). Overnight in Vancouver.
Day 2/3 - Vancouver
Day 4/5 - Victoria
Day 6 - Vancouver
Day 7 - Fly to Calgary, pick up car and drive to Drumheller.
Day 8 - Visit the Tyrell Museum and the Hoodoos and then drive to Banff. (Is it worth taking time out to visit the dinosaur provincial park as well?).
Day 9 - Kootenay Park, overnight in Banff.
Day 10 - Drive Icefield Parkway and overnight in Jasper.
Day 11 - Maligne Lake, Spirit Island, Angel Glacier. Overnight in Jasper.
Day 12 - Drive to Columbia Icefield, Snocoach tour. Continue onto Lake Louise/Banff.
Day 13/14 - Banff/Lake Louise
Day 15 - Yoho National Park
Day 16 - Drive to Calgary, drop off car and afternoon flight back to UK.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated and any accommdation recommendations? We are walkers but not big hikers and I love my photography so if there are any must see view points that you could share with me then that we be good too.
These are my thoughts so far:
Day 1 - Fly from UK to Vancouver (arrive early pm). Overnight in Vancouver.
Day 2/3 - Vancouver
Day 4/5 - Victoria
Day 6 - Vancouver
Day 7 - Fly to Calgary, pick up car and drive to Drumheller.
Day 8 - Visit the Tyrell Museum and the Hoodoos and then drive to Banff. (Is it worth taking time out to visit the dinosaur provincial park as well?).
Day 9 - Kootenay Park, overnight in Banff.
Day 10 - Drive Icefield Parkway and overnight in Jasper.
Day 11 - Maligne Lake, Spirit Island, Angel Glacier. Overnight in Jasper.
Day 12 - Drive to Columbia Icefield, Snocoach tour. Continue onto Lake Louise/Banff.
Day 13/14 - Banff/Lake Louise
Day 15 - Yoho National Park
Day 16 - Drive to Calgary, drop off car and afternoon flight back to UK.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated and any accommdation recommendations? We are walkers but not big hikers and I love my photography so if there are any must see view points that you could share with me then that we be good too.
Jun 16th, 2008, 03:34 PM
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Places to stay in Jasper -
hotel listings - www.jaspercanadianrockies.com (Jasper Tourism website - also has info on things to do etc.)
Private home accommodation and B&Bs (much cheaper option, compared to hotels) - www.stayinjasper.com
Banff/Lake Louise Tourism Bureau - www.banfflakelouise.com
hotel listings - www.jaspercanadianrockies.com (Jasper Tourism website - also has info on things to do etc.)
Private home accommodation and B&Bs (much cheaper option, compared to hotels) - www.stayinjasper.com
Banff/Lake Louise Tourism Bureau - www.banfflakelouise.com
Jun 20th, 2008, 04:48 AM
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I've slightly revised the itinerary, so before booking accommodation any feedback on length of stay in each area would be appreciated:
Day 1 Fly UK to Vancouver (arrive mid afternoon)
Day 2-6 Vancouver (including, day trip to Victoria, whale watching, suspension bridge, grouse mountain, stanley park, granville market and central landmarks)
Day 7 Fly to Calgary, pick up hire car and drive to Drumheller.
Day 8 Tyrell Museum, scenic drive around Hoodoos and drive to Banff/Lake Louise
Day 9 Drive from Banff/Lake Louise along Icefields parkway to Jasper.
Day 10 - 11 Jasper
Day 12 - Drive from Jasper back down the parkway to Banff/Lake Louise stopping for the Snocoach tour on the Glacier
Day 13-16 Banff/Lake Louise including Yoho and Kootenay National Parks
Day 17 - Fly from Calgry to Uk
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
Day 1 Fly UK to Vancouver (arrive mid afternoon)
Day 2-6 Vancouver (including, day trip to Victoria, whale watching, suspension bridge, grouse mountain, stanley park, granville market and central landmarks)
Day 7 Fly to Calgary, pick up hire car and drive to Drumheller.
Day 8 Tyrell Museum, scenic drive around Hoodoos and drive to Banff/Lake Louise
Day 9 Drive from Banff/Lake Louise along Icefields parkway to Jasper.
Day 10 - 11 Jasper
Day 12 - Drive from Jasper back down the parkway to Banff/Lake Louise stopping for the Snocoach tour on the Glacier
Day 13-16 Banff/Lake Louise including Yoho and Kootenay National Parks
Day 17 - Fly from Calgry to Uk
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
Jun 20th, 2008, 10:39 AM
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Just thought I'd mention that the last time I got a ticket for Butchart Gardens (a week ago) it was good for $1 off at the Capilano Suspension Bridge, if that was the bridge you were thinking of. However, people here recommend the Lynn Canyon Suspension Bridge. I haven't been to that one but I did think the Capilano bridge was grossly touristy.
I wasn't impressed with Grouse Mtn. either.
I wasn't impressed with Grouse Mtn. either.
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