Planning a 2 week honeymoon in OZ for October 2-16. We arrive in Sydney 2nd and stay 4 nights. Then fly to Hobart for 3 nights, then we have 4 nights in Palm Cove and back to Sydney for 3 nights flying out the 16th.<BR><BR>We are using hotel points---<BR>Sydney --Downtown Hilton first part<BR>Hobart-Old Woolstore Apartments (none of our chain hotels are in Tasmania)<BR>Palm Cove-Courtyard Marriott (but will be something else by the time we arrive however they are honoring our points)<BR>Four Points Sheraton Sydney our last 3 days (supposedly our room has a harbor view)<BR><BR>Wed-Day 1-afternoon Grayline bus tour of Sydney Highlights<BR>Thurs-Day 2 harbor cruise and night bridge climb (any suggestion other than Capt Cook for harbor cruise-don't want to eat)<BR>Fri-Day 3 Blue Mountains/Jenolan Cave tour with Grayline <BR>Sat-Day 4 misc Sydney (go to the places we thought were interesting from our highlights tour/harbor cruise)<BR>Sun Day 5 FLY to Hobart arrive noon-check out the city/waterfront/casino<BR>Mon- Day 6 Port Arthur tour with Grayline<BR>Tues Day 7 tour with Rod Parish from the Pickled Frog taking us to Mt Field/Bonorong (anyone know? heard of this place or person?)<BR>Wed-Day 8 new husband's 30th birthday--we spend the day flying to Cairns and going to Palm Cove (arrive late afternoon) so just relax and have a nice DINNER<BR>Thurs-Day 9 Kuranda/Skyrail/Train thing<BR>Fri-Day 10 Poseidon 2 intro dives for me and snorkel for the honey<BR>Sat Day 11 Breakfast with the Birds/Hartley's Creek (honey really wants to see the crocs and I talked him out of Brisbane to try to see Steve Irwin at the National Zoo)<BR>Sun-Day 12 travel to Sydney afternoon free<BR>Mon- Day 13 Canberra day trip with Grayline -cannot wait to see the new Parliament Building it is incredible in pictures<BR>Tues- Day 14 local Sydney maybe Zoo? Olympic Park?<BR>Wed- Day 15 go home<BR><BR>Any suggestions?<BR>I am calling in a few days to book the tours and then there is no turning back!<BR><BR>We don't mind light hiking, LOVE wildlife,<BR>don't want to have to do too much thinking when we get there, want to see/do as much as possible in the little time we have. Want to limit car rentals. <BR><BR>Tour prices seem cheap/reasonable....<BR>

Firstly I would forget about all of the Greyline bus tours, not only are they expensive but you can do everything on your own for a fraction of the price and with flexibility - and that especially goes for your time in Sydney. <BR>We can tell you how to go about it and when you are there you will see how easy it is. <BR>The Woolstore in Hobart is terrific - it is only one block from the harbour and all the nice little eating places there and its a quick walk into town. They have a lounge/dining room, kitchen with all mod cons sep. loo and bathroom with laundry in it. There is airconditioning and TV in both the bedroom and the lounge. You can dine onsite if you wish. You would either need a tour for Port Arthur or to rent a car for a couple of days - I would do the latter as Tassie is so easy to drive around and of course that would allow you to go to lots of other places as well. Mt Field is very nice but I can think of many other places that I would go to first. <BR>You will see crocs at Hartley Creek as well as birds and if you are around and about up that way they have a wonderful walk though bird aviary.<BR>I know you said that you want to limit car rentals but I would really suggest it for Tasmania as you can cover so much that way o/w you will miss out on some really nice stuff. <BR>Let us know if you will drop the idea of the bus in Sydney and we can give you some terrific suggestions for there.

Hi, Shannon!<BR>I don't know whether it is me or Fodor's... but this is the third time I have tried to reply to this post. The other two replies have all ended up in cyberspace somewhere... sorry if they all turn up together and flood your post!<BR>I think your itinerary is generally very good, and, of course, you have chosen a great time of year to come.. many would say there is no better month. My main suggestions (only for the Sydney/Canberra "legs", of course) for improvement relate mainly to your use of Grayline and Captain Cook Cruises, neither of which I am very fond.<BR>Day 2: Instead of the Captain Cook Cruise, use the dozens of commuter ferries which dart around the harbour. Start the day by buying a one-day Dayrover Pass for $13.50. It's good for ferries, buses, and trains. With it you can take as many ferry trips as you can fit in... and in one day you could easily do four. Manly is a "must".... you will want to spend an hour strolling around the Ocean Beach and the foreshores, so allow at least two hours for this one. Another good one is Balmain... some charming little shops there, and a nice atmosphere; then there's Watson's Bay (have a meal in the restaurant where Russell Crowe allegedly worked); and, finally, Darling Harbour. Without Captain Cook, you will see more, set your own pace, and vary your itinerary as the spirit moves you.<BR>Day 3: If I were you, I would be taking an extra day in this leg and going to Hobart a day later... you will actually save a day in the long run, and you will see more. While I think it is great that you are going to the Blue Mountains and then further on to Jenolan Caves (that's at least a three-hour journey each way), I don't know whether I'd be doing it with Grayline, who might just leave Sydney at 9 a.m., have you there in time for a set-menu lunch at Caves House, and then whisk you through one cave -- the easiest and quickest, probably the Lucas or the Imperial, neither of which is the most spectacular -- and then have you out of there and into the souvenir shops with whom they have "an arrangement". (Sorry if I have maligned Grayline). I have an alternative suggestion, but I might post this piece now (after my earlier experiences today) and then come back in with a second post if it gets through. So... break time!

Hi again!<BR>Phew! Looks like it is all working again, and maybe my fingers won't fall off before I get through. Now, my idea was that you could hire a car for a couple of days, preferably from a company where you can hire in Sydney and drop off in Canberra. If you left Sydney on Day 3 for Jenolan Caves, between 5 and 5:30 a.m., you would avoid all traffic problems and you would actually be into the mountains by sun-up. Drive to the Caves, arriving there before 9 a.m., so that you beat all the other tourists. When the ticket office opens, buy one of the multi-cave discount passes.... let the seller advise you, but make sure the pass includes either the Temple of Baal or the newly-cleaned Orient Cave. Jenolan Caves Park is beautiful at this time of the morning, when the only people there are the ones who stayed overnight, and you will have a great time just strolling until the first cave opens. By lunch time -- and lunch in Caves House is a nice, though expensive, idea -- you will have seen your quota of caves and be ready to start your return journey when the tour buses have just come in.<BR>Head back to Katoomba and Echo Point. Your mid-afternoon treat could be a couple of rides on the Echo Point Skyway and Railway complexes. If you have time, drive one town further into Leura, and have afternoon tea there... it's delightful.<BR>Leave there no later than 4 p.m., however, as to complete your day you need to be in Glenbrook by 5 p.m. There's a tourist office on the main road which will tell you how to get to Euroka Clearing. (If you're late, ask any local.) Here you can spend sunset surrounded by kangaroos and white cockatoos... and maybe a kookaburra and a goanna or two. This place is great, but seldom visited by tourist buses (except for the mini-vans) because the road is too narrow. Do Grayline take you there? As it starts to get dark, drive back into Glenbrook and have dinner at one of the cosy restaurants in the village... parking is no problem.<BR>You can still be back into Sydney by 8:30 or 9 p.m., as Glenbrook is only an hour's drive... and you've missed all the traffic again. Don't take back your car, however.... save it for the next day, which is your Canberra trip advanced. <BR>Once again, I will play it safe and post this much and then come in again for a third post. (Sorry for this mucking around, but you don't know how frustrating it is to see two huge posts just vanish from existence!)

Hi yet again!<BR>Onto the last third of the post... now, you are back from the Mountains and you still have your hire car. Up nice and early next morning and off on the 3 1/2 hour drive to Canberra..... the earlier you go, the easier the traffic will be. You will do better on this trip without Grayline, also. As you drive into Canberra, you will pass a conspicuous tourist bureau, where you can get maps and events lists. From September 14 to October 13 Canberra has a festival called Floriade.... there is no better time to visit (I am taking the family down, myself)... even if flowers are not really your "bag". You will go wild with your camera, and you will probably want to stay two days. There may also be some open hours at some of the embassies/consulates (don't know if this is still "on" after September 11), but, even if not, just driving around them is a nice activity. Canberra is easy to drive in and a breeze for parking. If accommodation is tight, because of Floriade, try nearby Queanbeyan, which is very cheap and only a fifteen-minute drive. You will enjoy Parliament House, and also try the Australian War Memorial (a couple of hours' worth) and the delightful "olde-English" Cockington Green, about fifteen minutes out of town. There's a lot to do in Canberra.<BR>If you can delay your departure for Hobart by a day, you will see more of what Canberra has to offer. But, even if not, you may be wise to drop off your hire car there and take a plane to Melbourne, from which you can go on to Hobart either by another plane or, for a different experience, by the overnight ferry. <BR>You can see that this plan frees up Day 13, so that you now have two full days in Sydney to indulge yourselves. You mentioned either the Zoo (a "must-visit" at this time of year, just for the views from the animal enclosures) and Olympic Park..... you can do both, under this revised plan, and still have time left over for other things. The zoo is easily reached by ferry, and there are trains to Olympic Park....you don't need a guided tour. <BR>Hope this has been of some help, and that you didn't find the tri-part posting too off-putting! Have a great time in Sydney, and good luck with the other cities (looks like Liz has made Tasmania easy for you!)

thanks for the help!<BR><BR>I don't mind dropping the tours...just don't know/didn't know how hard it would be to get around on our own-<BR>1-driving on the "wrong" side of the road<BR>2-are the road signs very clear about turns/distances etc??<BR>3-We already have the airfare booked between cities (boomerang passes) so the dates can't be changed and we already have our hotels booked/coupons sent out.<BR><BR>IF Canberra is only a 3 1/2 hour drive from Sydney then I don't mind driving there and back in one day.<BR><BR>We cannot afford to add any additional hotel costs so can't do the overnight in the Blue Mtns.<BR><BR>IS there a good place to get detailed maps/routes for Sydney-Blue Mts, Sydney-Canberra, Hobart-Port Arthur?<BR><BR>DOES anyone know the drive time between Hobart and Port Arthur?? We were really more interested in the Ghost Tour at night and none of the tours include that option.<BR><BR>Do we need advanced reservations for any of the sites????<BR><BR>Thanks for the tip on the ferries!!!!<BR>What a great price too!

I sent my future husband your comments--<BR>(I have to admit the only time we tend to fight is when we are trying to get somewhere!) and he is currently in Germany-hence his European comment<BR><BR>"I have to say that tazmania would be find to do ourselves, after all How much<BR>can you get lost on an island as longas you you don't off road.<BR><BR>as for sydney, I'm not fond of getting up at 5AM let alone struggle with traffic<BR>& driving in areas I'm unfamilar with. Plus driving on the wrong side isn't<BR>high on my list. Sure its flexable as long as you don't get lost or can find<BR>parking. I would never think about driving around Europe myself. The parking<BR>is murder even at 9PM on a Tuesday (can take up to 30 minutes before you can<BR>park within 2km of where you want to be)<BR><BR>Think of it this way, would you rather be yelling at each other trying to figure<BR>out where to park/turn/see. or would you rather relax some & have someone else<BR>do the driving.<BR><BR>Sure you can do things cheaper by yourself, but your creating more of a<BR>headache."

If I remember correctly Port Arthur is about 1 1/2 hours drive from Hobart but you will want to stop along the way I should think. <BR>As for Sydney the other option is to take the train from Sydney to the Blue Mountains and either get a tour when you get up there or arrange one before you go. You will not need to book any of these tours until you are in Sydney or Hobart as there are many, many tours and very varied ones at that. <BR>The train is a lovely ride to the blue Mountains - about 2 hours - and I think the trains leaves very regularly. If you don't join a tour when you are up there you can just grab a cab and get to the different places yourselves. <BR>I have just re-read your last post and I am SURE that there are tours from Hobart that include the Ghost Tours. The Tasmanian Tourist Board have a very comprehensive site and you could also write to them and just address it to them in Hobart and ask them for information. <BR>If you drive yourself to Port Arthur then it won't be a bother either way and you won't need a tour. One really great thing to do at Port Arthur is to take the small plane ride from P.A. around the end of Tassie and P.A. and that area is absolutely lovely - the cost is very reasonable at about $60 Australian each.

we decided to rent a car the 3 days in Tas. <BR>Our flight from Tas to Cairns got changed so now we have an addtl 1/2 day at the GBR.<BR><BR>I may just wait and play the Sydney tours by ear....<BR><BR>but I will go ahead and book my DIVE trip.<BR><BR>Is Poseidon ok for intro dives and snorkel??

Alan:<BR><BR>Thanks for the detailed info on Jenolan caves, that just the info I have been looking for. My husband actually likes the idea of driving on the wrong side of the road, so I think we will be renting a car for the trip out there. Leaving at 5:30, however, is not in the cards with two kids. We are going to stay overnight at the Caves House, so my plan is to take a leisurely drive up and see some of the sights you mention on the way. Get there in the late afternoon, and then do one of the early tours. We'd then leave after lunch, and do some more sighseeing on the way back. Any thoughts on tht plan? Anything to see ont he way there or back that you'd particularly recommend with kids? Also, you mention that the Oriental and Temple of Bael caves are your favorites. Are these ok with a young child (4 1/2), or is there a better one to do with her? My husband and I are big caving buffs and have seen a lot of caves, so I'd really like to see the most unusual ones if it would not be too hard for the little one. One last question - have you ever done the Plughole tour? My husband might do that one with my 11 year old, and I was curious as to what it was like. Thanks.

Hi, Oratl!<BR>I think your plan to drive up leisurely and stay at Caves House the night before is a good one, as this means you will be up, fresh and breakfasted when the ticket office opens at 8:30 or 9 a.m.... it's just opposite. Also, an early morning stroll around the area when its devoid of human life but bursting with wild life (we saw a wombat last time we were there, and there are occasional wallabies) is a great treat. Just one thing..... try to time your arrival after the afternoon tourist buses have gone, otherwise the last twenty-something kilometres, down a narrow winding road barely big enough for two cars abreast (and with a sheer drop on YOUR side, below!) will be miserable. Happiness is covering that whole last stretch without meeting ANYTHING coming the other way... more likely either before breakfast or, in your case, well after dark, when you won't meet the buses (and any approaching cars signal their presence by headlights). So, if I were you, I'd spend till just on dark at, say, Katoomba (the Niagara Cafe is an interesting art-deco eatery) or Blackheath (some great restaurants around there) and pass all the buses while you're on a straight, wide highway.<BR>On the way back, you might like to go the same route as far as Mount Victoria, then take the road to the left marked "Bell". Ten minutes along that road you come to another road which runs parallel to the road you took up the Mountains, but returns to Sydney via the towns of Richmond and Windsor. These are old, historic towns where you can look at some great old churches and maybe buy some antiques that won't break the bank. A small detour, shortly after you join this "parallel" road (which is called "Bell's Line of Road") will take you to one of the gems of the Mountains, the little village of Mount Wilson. It's a worthwhile detour... only ten minutes off the main road, but worth an hour's strolling and taking morning tea in the old tea rooms there.<BR><BR>Neither the Temple of Baal nor the Orient Cave will be too difficult for your daughter... mine did it at the same age. If a cave is too difficult for kids, the ticket office will tell you. Can't help you much with the Plughole... every time I have been to Jenolan, it has not been on offer. Just which caves are opened depends a lot, I think, on which guides are on duty. Difficult tours have a strict number limit... sometimes as few as six people.... so they are more expensive. I really don't know about an eleven-year-old in the Plughole.... actually, I'm a bit doubtful. There are other alternatives, if they happen to be open on your day, such as the Ribbon or the Skeleton.<BR>There is a coupon around headed "Caves ar Cool and Kids Are Free"... maybe you can pick one up at the Glenbrook Tourist Centre on your way up... it might save you a bit of money. It is also good for the other two main cave systems near Sydney, the Wombeyan Caves and the Abercrombie Caves (both really worth doing) if you decide to keep the hire car and head out to other areas outside of Sydney.<BR>Have a wonderful holiday! Please get in touch by direct email if there's anything else I can do (e.ge if driving on the wrong side of a narrow, winding road worries you, maybe you can call in at my house on the way up and I can get behind the wheel for you... I'm quite used to that road nowadays!)

Hi, Oratl!<BR>I think your plan to drive up leisurely and stay at Caves House the night before is a good one, as this means you will be up, fresh and breakfasted when the ticket office opens at 8:30 or 9 a.m.... it's just opposite. Also, an early morning stroll around the area when its devoid of human life but bursting with wild life (we saw a wombat last time we were there, and there are occasional wallabies) is a great treat. Just one thing..... try to time your arrival after the afternoon tourist buses have gone, otherwise the last twenty-something kilometres, down a narrow winding road barely big enough for two cars abreast (and with a sheer drop on YOUR side, below!) will be miserable. Happiness is covering that whole last stretch without meeting ANYTHING coming the other way... more likely either before breakfast or, in your case, well after dark, when you won't meet the buses (and any approaching cars signal their presence by headlights). So, if I were you, I'd spend till just on dark at, say, Katoomba (the Niagara Cafe is an interesting art-deco eatery) or Blackheath (some great restaurants around there) and pass all the buses while you're on a straight, wide highway.<BR>On the way back, you might like to go the same route as far as Mount Victoria, then take the road to the left marked "Bell". Ten minutes along that road you come to another road which runs parallel to the road you took up the Mountains, but returns to Sydney via the towns of Richmond and Windsor. These are old, historic towns where you can look at some great old churches and maybe buy some antiques that won't break the bank. A small detour, shortly after you join this "parallel" road (which is called "Bell's Line of Road") will take you to one of the gems of the Mountains, the little village of Mount Wilson. It's a worthwhile detour... only ten minutes off the main road, but worth an hour's strolling and taking morning tea in the old tea rooms there.<BR><BR>Neither the Temple of Baal nor the Orient Cave will be too difficult for your daughter... mine did it at the same age. If a cave is too difficult for kids, the ticket office will tell you. Can't help you much with the Plughole... every time I have been to Jenolan, it has not been on offer. Just which caves are opened depends a lot, I think, on which guides are on duty. Difficult tours have a strict number limit... sometimes as few as six people.... so they are more expensive. I really don't know about an eleven-year-old in the Plughole.... actually, I'm a bit doubtful. There are other alternatives, if they happen to be open on your day, such as the Ribbon or the Skeleton.<BR>There is a coupon around headed "Caves ar Cool and Kids Are Free"... maybe you can pick one up at the Glenbrook Tourist Centre on your way up... it might save you a bit of money. It is also good for the other two main cave systems near Sydney, the Wombeyan Caves and the Abercrombie Caves (both really worth doing) if you decide to keep the hire car and head out to other areas outside of Sydney.<BR>Have a wonderful holiday! Please get in touch by direct email if there's anything else I can do.

Thanks for the info Alan. The road you described does not sound like it'd be too fun when the busses are coming down, but it also does not sound like something we'd like to do in the dark (especially not being used to driving on that side of the road). Since we can't do it before breakfast, is there another time you would recommend that we might miss the busses (e.g., just before they leave)?

Not really sure, Oratl... maybe lunch time? I guess most of the tour bus itineraries would be planned so that between 12 and 2 everyone is comfortably seated at Caves House and spending money from which the bus operators get a kick-back (sorry if I am sounding cynical). Maybe I made the road sound overly horrific... it's not a death trap, by any means, and the "bad" part is only the sixteen or twenty kilometres directly before you get to the Caves... still, I always try to get it over and done with at a time when I figure no one would be thinking of coming the other way. So, the earlier the better.