From a visitor's perspective you stand by your original statements do you Melnq8 when you stated that "NZ is incredibly safe, OZ similar to the US." In making that statement you have insulted Australians to the max. You have been in Australia for 5 minutes and now you are an expert! We DO NOT have anywhere near the crime rate as the USA - we are probably more like the back blocks of Nebraska in terms of crime rates and for your information Auckland one year this decade was second only to Johannesburg in crime rate - if you think that NZ with a population of 4 Million with crime rate twice as high as England and Wales with a population of 60 Million is nothing in the scheme of things then I can see why you handle the truth like you would juggle oranges.

Agree that the media has a lot to answer for, but the reality of the emergence in some cities of late night 'anything goes' zones in the twisted minds of ice and alcohol-fuelled young bullies doesn't help either - and tourists and short term stayers like Mel probably get out more (and later) than most of us who are rarely touched by any nasty stuff (although road rage does seem to be becoming more of a problem). Agree with Neil on closing hours which hopefully would also lead to the demise of many so-called nightclubs (aka drug distribution facilities which are not too fussed either about supplying under aged drinkers). But let's not get too carried away with this stuff.

We can debate this until we're blue in the face ivenotbeeneverywhere, but I don't see the point. Let's just agree to disagree and call it good.

Melnq8, I think there's no doubt that in regard to violent crime rates Australia isn't in the same league as America, and as said I wouldn't draw as marked a distinction between Australia and NZ as you did.

But having said that, a visitor should not regard either country as an idyllic crime-free paradise, and should as earlier suggested exercise the sensible precautions they would in their own country. Bad stuff can happen anywhere.

Had I known a seemingly innocent sentence would draw such a sh**storm, I would never have typed it. We probably scared Narnya off for good.

Mel - Good, bad, or ugly, please keep it up - it's good to have the benefit of your experiences and your perspective, whether it's justified or not in our opinion. IMO it's important everybody gets to see both sides of the ledger.

I have my OZ destinations narrowed down to a few to start with: Cairns (Great Barrier Reef area), Sydney, Melbourne to Kangaroo Island via the Great Ocean Road. [Would like to include Uluru, but not sure that will happen (journey time, cost, total "draw").] I am also thinking September 2010 might be a good time.

Anyone see any holes in my early planning?

Haven't begun researching NZ, yet...