BillT

Travel and Leisure magazine just announced their World's best list:

Best Hotel- Penninsula came in 3rd behind two Afican properties. Oriental came in 10th!

Best island- Bali for the third year in a row.

Best Asian city- Bangkok!

Roccco

BillT,

There are some African properties that would just blow your mind. I don't which two finished #1 and #2, but I would suspect them to be Singita Private Game Reserve and Londolozi.

I have stayed at Singita and it is out of this world. Each room must measure over 1,500 sq. ft. with its own private plunge pool and they are in the middle of the bush, meaning that you can sometimes just sit in bed and look out the bedroom window and see an elephant or other animal walkby.

Plus the food is excellent, as is the service. At an African game lodge, because labor is so cheap, there are usually three times as many staff as there are guests. It is really an out of this world experience.

My favorite African property will not appear on any lists anytime soon, but is as good as Singita in my opinion. It is Chichele Presidential Lodge in South Luangwa, Zambia, and it is a relative bargain at only $900 USD per night, compared to $2,000+ per night for Singita and Londolozi.

Here is the address for Chichele Presidential Lodge, if interested:

www.star-of-africa.com

Roccco

Also, it is worth adding that at most African game lodges, it is all-inclusive, with all of your food, drinks and twice daily game drives included. At the best lodges there is massage and other services available.

BillT

Rocco:
Yes you are right on with the number one. 2nd was Kichwa Tembo in Kenya.

Peteralan

BillT...was that Peninsula Hong Kong?

sandi

And that was the Kicha Tembo Bateleur Camp, not the "standard" Kichwa Tembo with 40 tents versus Bateleur which is smaller and more stuff is included.

But each magazine has their Top 100 and some years Conde Nast and Travel and Leisure don't even have the same properties included. CN listed Singita about 2-years before it was even a twinkle in the eyes of TL. Also, only if a property gets a minimum number of votes does it even get a chance at being listed. There are plenty of "special finds" worldwide that will never appear on a World's Best or Top 100

While it's a bit more difficult to "just pop into" an Africa safari camp/lodge, in Europe or Asia, etc. many responders to these surveys simply walk thru the lobby and claim to have stayed at a property. So take the information from these surveys for what they're worth - maybe not that much!

JamesA

I think if a room rate per night ( even all-inclusive ) is $ 900-2,000 it 'should be' pretty good!

If all out luxury and ambiance is their criteria fine, but if you start comparing $ for $ then results would be a titally different. I appreciate Conde Naste is directed at the top end of the market though. Does anyone know of surveys that rate places in the say 'Under $200' a night ? It would be interesting.

JamesA

Strange....I just read that the Racha Resort and Spa on Racha Island near Phuket is in that Top 100, can someone confirm that? I say strange because it was only due to open in June, and is apparently only opening about 'now'...so on what criteria does it get into the Top 100 already ??
Also saw that the JW Marriott Phuket also made the Top 100 (?). Were there many resorts in places such as Mauritius in the Top 100 ( sorry, I can't get hold of the new issue )

Cicerone

James, the JW Marriot Phuket made the top 100 for Conde Nast, and their comment was that the Italian restaurant "had the best Italian food in Asia". Wow! I like the restaurant myself, but I think that is bit over the top. . .

BillT

It was Peninsula - Bangkok- and yes there are many surveys out there based on diferent criteria-they are fun to read but of course one needs to do a lot more research before selecting a hotel/resort. If a hotel does appear in these surveys year after year- well I guess it ain't no Motel 6!

JamesA

Very starnage about the Racha resort, it was well hyped and I read on other forums how people had to change as it wasn't finished, has anyone read what they said about it, would be amusing as the place was obviously not open when the 'survery' was made and it certainly could not have been made from a survey of people who had 'stayed', would be interesting on what they said, unless of course they weren't listed in whcih case that would start another 'strange' story.

simpsonc510

I have the pages open to the "Best" listing in T & L mag right now. Bill, the Oriental is #15, not #10. It is amazing to me that 8 out of the top 13 or so listings are reserves in Africa. Maybe it's time to travel in that direction???

Bangkok is listed as #4 best city, behind Sydney, Rome, and Florence. #5 is Cape Town.

Did not see the Phuket hotel listed anywhere. But, a year or so ago, the Villa Royale, Kata Beach, Phuket, was in the top 100 new "small hotels"... I agree 100% with that one!!!

Always interesting to read the "best' listings.

BillT

Carol- best Asian city is Bangkok. Can't argue with best overall- Sydney- its a fabulous town we loved it when we were there some years back!
Looks like the Penn wins this round over the Oriental!

sandi

JamesA - If you know that the Racha was't even open when the survey was done, I'd call the publishers on it and inquire of them how this could be so.

I once caught the Zagat listings of Intl Hotels, Resorts and Spas having simply reproduce their 2nd Edition word-for-word from their 1st Edition. They replied that it was their error and promised not to have a repeat of such.

Call them on it and see what kind of answer you get. Should be interesting.

balitrav

My husband and I stayed in two Singita properties last fall - both Ebony and Lebombo, as well as Londolozi. All were wonderful, however, Singita was definitley a step above. The staff was exceptional, the food fabulous, the accomodations incredible, and to top it all off the game viewing just unbelievable. I'd go back in a heartbeat! I am very glad to hear of other great properties (though they may not have made any list), expecially Rocco's recommendation for Chelele Presidential Lodge. As nice as Singita is, the prices are exhorbitant.

This fall we will be going to Beijing, Hong Kong, Phuket, and Bangkok. We have stayed at The Oriental in the past, but this time will be at The Peninsula - nice to see that it is rated at number 3. I'm sure it will live up to it's reputation.

Roccco

Balitrav,

Glad to see another Africa buff lost on the Asia board!

Let me tell you a little about Chichele Presidential Lodge. I have been on a trip to Southern Africa for each of the last three years, and coming all the way from Los Angles, that is no easy feat.

The first year, 2002, the US Dollar was the strongest it has ever been against the Rand, and even Singita was somewhat affordable. The exchange rate was a whopping 11.5 ZAR to 1 USD, so it worked out to about $1,150 USD per night for Singita ($575 pp per night sharing). I visited Singita for the very topic of this thread...it had just been voted #1 in the world by Conde Nast Traveler.

Well, I won't waste your time going into detail about Singita since you've been there and know that it is absolute heaven. However, "heaven" at todays exchange rate costs about $2,250 USD per night!!!

That first year I visited Singita, the Table Bay Hotel in Cape Town, the Rosebank Hotel in Joburg (one block away from The Grace), Matetsi Water Lodge in Zimbabwe (a CCAfrica property on the Zambezi River, halfway between Victoria Falls and Chobe), the Victoria Falls Hotel and the Mount Nelson Hotel. I'm glad I visited those great establishments when I did, because the prices are just about double today.

So, last year for my second trip to Southern Africa, with the dollar falling quickly against the Rand (it was about 8.5 ZAR to 1 USD in June, 2003), I decided that I would split my time between South Africa and Zambia. I ended up spending four nights in Cape Town at the amazing Twelve Apostles Hotel and one night at The Lanzerac Manor in the Winelands. For my Zambian safari I visited a lodge recommended to me by another Fodorite, Kafunta River Lodge for three nights and Kafunta Island Bush Camp for two nights. I really liked these places but they were not luxurious like Singita or Matetsi. Still, for $400 USD per night ($200 pppns), I was not complaining. Then I finished off the trip with 3 nights at Djuma Vuyatela in the Sabi Sand. Although this was on the luxurious side and a bargain at $550 per night ($275 pppns), I just didn't care for it, but I did get some great pictures.

So, this year, with the Rand below 7 to 1 USD for the last 6+ months, I decided that I was going to fly into South Africa but not spend more than it took to get me lunch at the airport. Immediately, I flew into Zambia for strictly an 11 night safari. Because my wife and I had just spent 11 nights in Italy, it didn't leave much time for Joburg, Cape Town, etc., and plus I really wanted to get connected with the bush and hoped that 11 consecutive nights would do so.

I did stay at a couple very good lodges and one not so great one. Kaingo (www.kaingo.com) in South Luangwa National Park was excellent, although, again, not fancy. The prices were excellent, about $450 USD per night ($225 pppns) and this included 2 hour transfers from the airport and to my next lodge (in Zambia, they do not nickle and dime a guest for road transfers, although they are usually much longer than transfers in South Africa).

Kaingo offers THREE game activities per day. In the morning and evening, you may choose from either a game drive or a bush walk (it would be late afternoon for an evening gamewalk, returning by sundown). In the middle of the day, however, they take you to their hippo hide and elephant hide, both offering great opportunities for photographs.

The owner runs the camp and he is a really cool, down to earth, kind of guy, in his late 30's. He's been in South Luangwa his entire life, as his father was a game warden for the national park.

The guides at Kaingo were excellent and well versed on all the flora and fauna, but also on the constellations in the heavens above, rarely, if ever, allowing for a dull moment, even when game was not at its best on a drive.

There were elephants roaming through the camp on 2 of my 4 nights at Kaingo, and one even did a "mock charge" towards me, leaving me running for dear life!

Kaingo is in the northern part of the park and makes an excellent partner for a park in the more central Mfuwe part of the park, where Chichele Presidential Lodge was located.

Chichele Presidential Lodge is really entirely in its own league. The managing couple are both great people. Nic runs the safaris while Traci runs the lodge. Because Nic is the boss, it really benefits guests that get to go on game drives with him, since he really has nobody to answer to within a few hundred miles.

One morning at Chichele, Nic took two other guests and I on what turned out to be a 7 hour game drive. Believe me, my stomach was growling after 3 hours, one point loud enough to be heard by the other guests, but I didn't mind one bit staying out for what nearly amounted to a full day game drive. He gave the game drive as if he was naarating to a television audience at home...not obnoxious like he was really trying to be a TV personality, but just very explanatory and thorough, whether it was about the larger animals or the smallest animals, trees, plants, termite mounds, whatever.

Another time, Nic took us on a 4.5 hour game walk. We encountered so many groups of elephants and although I almost didn't bring my camera, I was able to take more pictures on that game walk than on any single game drive. Although Nic got us into good range of the elephants, he never put us in harms way, always watching which way the wind was blowing. If, for example, the wind was blowing towards us, we would get much closer to the elephants because they wouldn't be able to smell us. However, if the wind was at our backs and blowing towards the elephants, we kept our distance as we watched the elephants raising their trunks to the air to smell us.

The food at Chichele was heavenly, and unlike at Singita, diners have the choice of eating with the group or having their own private table for two in an intimate corner to enjoy their candlelit dinner, usually with at least one waiter standing attentive about 20 feet away, but only needing eye contact before he is at your table to pour more wine or provide whatever else is needed. Service at Singita was very good, but service at Chichele was excellent. Plus, I find the Zambian people to be much warmer than the South African people, and warmer than any other people I have ever come across.

The rooms at Chichele were gorgeous, each their own private Victorian styled little bungalow, measuring about 800 sq. ft. with their own private balconies further adding to the spaciousness. Sure, it was probably only half the size of Singita and did not feature a private plunge pool, but that truly is the only place that Singita has Chichele beaten. Chichele does have a fabulous swimming pool overlooking the whole valley below (Chichele is atop Chichele Hill and you can see for miles and miles away).

While the game experience is great at both places, I would say that the game experience that is provided by expert guiding at Chichele is much better than the game experience at Singita, that I attribute more to an abundance of game than excellent guiding. Plus, if you have not yet been on a bushwalk, it is really a great experience.

I can honestly say, that even at similar pricing, I would probably pick Chichele over Singita. The only thing that would probably hold me back is my own shallowness that may prefer to stay at the designated #1 destination in the world, if prices were the same. However, when Chichele is 40% the price of Singita, it makes it an easy choice. Fortunately for guests not wanting to pay $2,000 USD per night, Zambia just does not command those prices. As a matter of fact, Chichele may be the most expensive lodge in all of Zambia, but is still a bargain compared to South African lodges. You cannot even stay at an average lodge these days for $900 USD per night!

Chichele will not appear on any lists anytime soon, but that is an excellent opportunity for the luxury traveler who wants to experience a first rate safari!

balitrav

Rocco - Oh my gosh! I had to practically tie my hands down to my sides to keep from picking up the phone and making reservations. Chelele sounds wonderful. Lucky you to have been to Africa three times in the last three years - I am so envious. Thank you for sharing your experience with me. Only someone else who truely loves it can understand the passion a person can feel about Africa. There's nothing that can compare to the sounds, the smells, the sights, and feel - it's seeps it's way into a persons soul. I'm hoping to get back soon, but not sure when that will be.
I understand the long plane ride - I flew out of Portland - it's sure a killer flight, but well worth the reward at the end.

996tt

Wow Africa is pretty expensive. But sounds like a must go. But it was just a matter of time the Oriental Bangkok falls to 10th place because it was HORRIBLE when I stayed there. Lets put it this way, when my water came out yellow from my shower they refused to change my room. On the other hand on my request Peninsula UPGRADED me to a BALCONY SUITE! No wonder one is number one in the world and the other going hill big time

simpsonc510

BillT:
If memory serves me correctly, BKK and SYD have been in close running the past two/three years of the T & L survey for best city. I agree on SYD. I'll be heading there in less than a month (6th time) and always love flying in over the harbor bridge. Awesome!

BKK or SYD? MY favorite city??? I'm really tempted to say BKK is #1 for me. A couple of years ago I said it was SYD. I'll see how I feel after mid-August return. What about you?

Carol

(SYD trips are not for shopping the way BKK is!)

balitrav

BKK or SYD - that's a hard choice. I think it would probably depend on which I'd been to last - and for me that would be BKK. It seems that the last place I've been is always my favorite - both are great cities.