The advice we received on this forum was a large part of the success of our December SE Asia holiday so I thought I would plan the next trip on this site too - please indulge me by giving me your thoughts and suggestions

we live in Cape Town and the teenage daughter will go to Thailand for a school project in December - we all want to meet up around 27th December somewhere between Thailand and Cape Town. Also the husband, son and myself are free to travel from 20th December so we three can go somewhere before the 27th. Perhaps we three can go to Dubai for a few days then fly down to the Maldives and the daughter can meet us there (Dubai because a lot of flights head East from there ex cape Town - go figure) maybe we could also visit Oman or Jordan. Or perhaps we should fly to Thailand and explore the south - we "did" the north in December. Maybe Myanmar?
This year when all 4 are together we would like to spend time at the beach and snorkeling is important but we also like museums and shopping, so not all day on a beach.

Sorry this is such a vague question, I guess I am asking where would you go if you could go anywhere within these time and geographical parameters?

Thankyou all in advance for your thoughts

i would stay in capetown to enjoy it, but then you are used to it...

dubai sounds interesting

how about india?? meet in new delhi?

or sri lanka

What about Kerala?

I love Burma but I wouldn't recommend it for beaches. Southern thailand is one of my least favorite places in asia so it's definitely not a place I would suggest.

There are lots of interesting places in Malaysia. And Bali would be a good option.

Everyone I know who has been to Dubai has been REALLY unimpressed. The airport is a huge shopping mall and that's about it. So I wouldn't plan to spend time there.

You have the daily Emirates non stop to Dubai from Cape Town so that's easy. You can then go on to Bangkok, KL or Singapore.

You also have the Singapore Airlines flights, the non stops from CPT to Singapore better obviously than the Singapore Airlines flights from CPT via Jo'burg.
If you took Singapore Airlines CPT-SIN non stop you could get overnight so somwhere like Phuket, and that would be easy for your daughter taking the daily Thai non stop Chiang Mai to Phuket.

Another is the Malaysia Airlines flights from CPT to Kuala Lumpur, so could do perhaps Penang and then meet your daughter in Phuket ( Penang-Phuket just over 1 hr flt ), so that gives you xome Malaysia plus Southern Thailand. The Malaysia flights come in from Buenos Aires and then on to Kuala Lumpur so there might not be as many seats as on Singapore which starts from CPT.

So you could do Singapore / Malaysia and Southern Thailand easily. Or via Dubai ( You have the other Gulf carriers from Jo'burg but I think it's only Emirates non stop from CPT plus their twice a day from JNB ).

Thailand to Maldives is not so easy, Bangkok Airways did flights from Bangkok, they ended, not sure if they have started again.

I guess it also depends on what your daughter wants.

Thanks everyone - I knew you would get my thoughts started. The week the 3 of us travel before our daughter joins us does not need to be beach time - this is why I thought Oman or Burma, and the time from 27th December on could be beach time.
rh - I adore Cape Town and have for the last 20 years I've lived here. India is an option on the way to Maldives, and I would love to visit Kerala - daughter does not want to go to India again - she spent 1 month there last year - so between 20th and 27th might be a good time to go before she joins us.

Southern Thailand - gloria - I have not been further south than Hua Hin, and I know there must be some beautiful unspoilt areas, but tourist overrun/ spoilt spots - (the lager lout etc)are definatly off my to go list

Kathie - whilst daughter is in Bangkok she is going to your jewelers for me - really want the emerald ear rings I didn't buy this last trip - I am hoping she can photograph things in the shop and mail them to me to make decisions.
Your advice has always ben very relevant to our family and I think Singapore and Bali needs more investigation. I know nothing about these areas - hopefully not too hot in Dec/ Jan

James - the CT - Dubai run is easy and I try to avoid Joburg when I can - this is why I thought Oman/ Jordan might be an interesting stop.
I hadn't thought of Singpore ex CT so I will now look into that one. I will also look at Malaysia airlines. I think we get stuck in the SAA rut as we can often use free miles and Companion ticket offers etc.

Weather in December in many places in SE Asia is good, so you would have quite a lot of choice. See weatherbase.com for information. I think I would pick Angkor Wat (Cambodia) and/or Laos over Myanmar, but that is more my personal choice, I am sure you would find Myanmar interesting. Ankor Wat and Luang Prabang would be very interesting for a few days, you can get there easily from Bangkok. The beaches of Hua Hin and Phuket in southern Thailand are very good in December, esp Phuket which is just about its best weather all year, although if you want to go to Phuket for Christmas week you should make a booking ASAP and prices will be a their very highest.

The Maldives will be quite nice in December, you might want to avoid the actual Christmas week period or you will pay even more than you do at other times; but if this is not an issue for you, then Christmas there would be quite fun I would think. I also think that December 20 and departing before Christmas would work in terms of pre-Christmas crowds and prices, not sure if that works for your daughter.

You can fly from the Maldives to Singapore in 4 hours, so a few days in Singapore might be a good addition, and it is an easy flight from Singapore to Bangkok. Lots to see and do there in terms of museums, ethnic areas like Little India and the Arab Street area, lots of good restaurants, pretty good shopping. They really go in for the Christmas decorations along Orchard Road, which would be fun to see. (The weather in December will be a bit on the rainy side and good chance of overcast skies if it is not raining, but you are not in Singapore for the weather.) You can also fly non-stop to Kuala Lumpur from the Maldives, which would be another thought for a few days, and a bit drier weather than Singapore would be in December.

Another thought might be to rent a house in Bali and spend the entire time there, very relaxing, lots of things to do and see culturally (almost overwhelming, although museums themselves are little thin on the ground). You can fly non-stop from Cape town to Singapore and then on the Bali from there (or stop in Singapore for a few days first). You could rent a house with cook and maid, pool, etc, many come with car and driver as well or access to one. I think that would be a very nice family vacation and a really memorable Christmas. You could even make a few day hop over to someplace on Java like Yogyakarta which is very interesting as well, or go to Lombok. One slight drawback is the weather, it may be overcast and little rainy, but again you are not there for the beaches (there are not really as pretty as elsewhere), and the monsoon winds can help the surf (I think your husband is a surfer or sailor?!) You can fly non-stop to Bangkok in about 4 hours (or slightly longer via changes). I am sure it is possible to rent houses in Thailand as well, I just don’t know much about it, but would have several suggestions for Bali.

Another completely different idea is to go to the PRC itself, like Beijing, Xian or a place like Lijiang in Yunnan province. You would need winter clothing but it might be a nice change of pace for you and your kids to experience a northern “winter”. The PRC in December would have all of the criteria on your list except snorkeling. Crowds would be much less and IMO the places are really beautiful in winter provided you are dressed for the weather. You should be able to get to Beijing easily (you can go non-stop to Singapore on SQ and then on to Beijing from there, or just go to Bangkok on a return ticket from Cape Town, as you can get to most places in the PRC from Bangkok). You can usually fly from Kunming (near Lijiang) to Bangkok non-stop in about 2 hours. 3-4 days in Beijing and 2-3 days in the Lijiang area would be a nice trip, IMO.

India is a thought, if I am reading your schedule correctly, you really don’t have a lot of time, so I am not sure I would try to do much more than perhaps a beach area, I like the Kerala suggestion, you could rent a houseboat for a few days on the backwaters. But north India in less than 6 days would be a rushed affair, IMO, although December is a good time of year. It might be possible to “do” something like Delhi, Agra and Jaipur, although IMO that’s a good bit of running around in 6 days. How much time could you spend after the 27th?

If you have to transit through Dubai and want to spend time in the Middle East, then I would actually not spend much time in Dubai and would instead go Petra in Jordan, where the whole city is virtually a museum and you can get out to some really beautiful wadi and desert areas, as opposed to the more ersatz desert areas the tourist in Dubai typically goes to. I have not been to Oman, but that would be another interesting thought. (If you can get a flight from J-Burg to Amman, Jordan for outward leg, that would save you some time; you can then take the rest of your international leg out of Dubai which is a quick flight from Amman as you probably know). The only plus of Dubai in December IMO is that the weather is very nice, warm but not hot and not humid (which it is for many other months of the year). December is of course high season in Dubai, but pre-Christmas should be better than a Christmas week stay. (I am not a fan of Dubai at all – sand, construction sites, Dunkin’ Donuts and Toys R Us mixed in with lots of traffic.)

Cicerone - as always your suggestions are more than helpful - some repsonse:
Angkor Wat - we did this December past and we absolutley loved it - also did Hua Hin, Chiang mai and Vietnam.
The time before we meet up with our daughter on 27th Dec is our time to explore so Laos/ Myanmar is an option. The mass tourism in Phuket is a concern to me
The daughter HATES the cold - she is quite pathetic about it - a real Africa child, so this is why we thought of a beach break like the Maldives - I have looked at the Conrad but it seems to be fully booked.Price is a consideration - our rand is weak and traveling with 4 people is epensive

My inital thoughts are now:

Dec 21st ish - fly to Dubai - stay 1 - 2 nights and on the Petra/ Oman until

Dec 27th - connect with daughter somewhere - maybe fly to Bangkok and meet her there or Singapore - I like that idea for a few days.

Dec 30th - head to a beach resort - Maldives or Bali?

Jan 7th/ 8th - start heading back to Cape town - via?

More questions for you:
1. where in Singapore?
2. where would you go in Maldives
3. I amnow very interested in Bali - can you give me any links re house rentals and where would you stay?

At this point bali instead of maldives is looking like the main contender and it does seem easy to get there via Bangkok.

The weather is not a major issue with us - i don't like it too hot - 20- 26 degrees suits me and the daughter hides under a duvet - literally! when it drops below 15
Well remembered - the husbands windsurfs and we all like the water.

The daughter has been selected to represent S Africa working on a project in northern Thailand to get water to villages - an honour and a wonderful experience, but I do know after 3 weeks of working hard a little beach and luxury will be much needed. Last year she was in India for a month and says although it was wonderful she does not want to go back this holiday so that cuts out India.

Date wise we are free from around 20th December to around 12th January - split up as 20 - 27th December husband, me and 13 year old son, 27th Dec - 12th Jan, we three plus then 17 year old daughter.
Cicerone - I am so grateful for your input - please carry on - you are helping a lot. Once i narow down countries and dates, i cnask more specific questions

The Maldives and Bali are really very different. One is simply stunning beaches but really nothing else, and the other has a tremendous amount to offer in terms of culture like music, art, dance, and interesting geography like rice terraces, mountains, etc – and it has some perfectly pretty but not spectacular beaches (and the bar is set pretty high for you all in Cape Town I would think). It would be a hard choice. If budget is more of an issue, I think I would lean toward Bali, where you could rent a house and then can control costs more and do trips which you can arrange yourself, rather than having to pay everything through your hotel which is what you would have to do in the Maldives. Restaurants are also much cheaper, esp if you avoid hotels.

I can post info tomorrow on rental homes on Bali with which I have personal experience, one place to try now would be vrbo.com. I have not rented from them in Bali, but have had very good luck with them in other locations. See http://www.vrbo.com/ and esp see Villa Jepun which comes with its own <i>boat and skipper</i>!! http://www.villajepun.com/. You could also rent a house with a pool inland in the hill area of Ubud and enjoy some really beautiful rice paddies views, but no beach access of course. But you can bicycle to all the cultural events and great art galleries, etc. (Not that you couldn’t in Nusa Dua as well, but more cultural actives and little villages abound in the Ubud area. Nusa Dua, Sanur, Kuta, Jimbaryan are all tourist areas. Ubud is too, but surrounded by more traditional villages.

The Maldives is so beautiful as to make you weep, glorious sunsets, great snorkeling. You can generally snorkel right off the beach on the hotel’s “house” reef, and then take boat trips to more remote places. Most all offer water sports like kayaking, sailing and also power boat stuff like waterskiing. However, it is ALL about the beach, there is nothing of cultural interest to see, except perhaps what could be a somewhat canned visit to a local “inhabited island” which may not offer much. The people are without doubt the very nicest people I have met anywhere in the world, and I have been lucky enough to see a good bit of it so far. (Maldives is on my list of places to retire.) However, for hotels and at Christmas as well, the Maldives is very expensive, plus you have to add in the price of transfers to the hotel by boat/airplane, and then meals which are will either be AT the hotel or at nearby hotels if you want a change, but all at their prices, and local trips by boat for snorkeling, again at hotel prices. You can’t arrange that yourself, as each resort is self contained per island. (You can arrange private boat charter for overnight, etc but it is not at all cheap.)

For hotels in the Maldives, other than the Conrad, which is very beautiful, two somewhat less expensive hotels I would recco would be Veligandu Island Resort http://www.veliganduisland.com/ and Herathera Resort http://www.herathera.com/ (latter is pronounced like “herra terra”). Rates for Herathera Resort run from US$300 and at Veligandu Island Resort run from US$500. Both <i>include</i> full/half board (a nice plus). These are brand-new, and so even though they only 3/4 stars, because they are so new the rooms are nice and modern and all the public facilities are new too. In 5 years I may not think these places are so great, and in 10 years unless they are completely refurbed, I would not go to them (that’s the problem with the lower-end resorts, redos are few and far between). Service may not be of the same levels as the Conrad, but that may not be an issue for you (and I think that Conrad would run from something like US$600 per night for the lowest category room for those dates, and not including meals, so it really may not matter to you). I have not snorkeled off the beaches at either, so can’t comment, in general I think that the lagoon at Veligandu Island Resort would offer better snorkeling. The Veligandu Island Resort is a 15 minute sea-plane flight from Male. The Herathera Resort is in the southernmost atoll in the Maldives, which means you have to fly from Male to Gan, and then take a little boat for like 20 minutes. This may make the southern atolls less attractive to you. (The Gan airport is international, however, it is brand new for international flights and I think they only take charter flights currently.) However, Gan is actually a very charming little place, it’s a string of islands put together and it actually would be “worth” and afternoon visit, there is a little village with lots of the coral buildings still left, some shops and a few restaurants along the beach roads. It is much much much more charming than Male, which is really just a very crowded place that is not worth spending any time in. One other resort that I know nothing about other than that it is a fast boat ride from Male Airport would be Sun Island, see http://www.sun-island.com/. I have never seen this resort (I have seen and eaten at the other two but not stayed overnight.) One comment from looking at their website is that rooms seem to be on the small side, other than the water bungalows, and even they are under 35 square meters. I believe the rate is about substantially less than the two above. finally, there is Kurumba, which is a quite pretty place, but is only about 15 minutes by boat from Male Airport and may not really give you the “remote island” feel you are looking for. However, see http://www.kurumba.com/ to compare prices, etc.

If you go to the Conrad, I am not sure I would pay for a water villa. I found them to be somewhat poorly designed and so there is almost no privacy and they are noisy, you can hear your neighbors. For less money, I think I would go with a beach villa there.

For the Conrad and Veligandu, you have to take a seaplane flight (which are gorgeous.) However, one thing with sea plane flights is that they <i>cannot fly at night, so with international flights usually arriving and/or departing quite late in the evening, when you depart you may have to leave during the day and hang around the airport for several hours, or on arrival you may have to overnight at the Male airport hotel, which is fine but quite expensive for what it is and not on a lovely deserted island, it is AT the airport. This can make a long flight even longer. (This would of course, give you an opportunity to see Male, but I am not sure the opportunity is worth it.) You might want to look into this before you commit to a location which requires a sea plane flight. The flight to Gan from Male for the Herathera Resort would be a regular hard-landing surface aircraft and you could leave or arrive at night (schedules permitting).

Please look at weatherbase.com to make sure temps in Bali and Maldives are OK with you. It can get quite hot in Maldives in the dry season, I was there about 2 weeks ago and it was 30 C in the sun, and only about 26 C in the shade. If you are not on the windward side of your island, there is little breeze and it is pretty hot. (But then you can jump right in the water.)

For Singapore, you might run a search here and see hotel reccos, or give a budget and you can be all over the map in Singapore. Hotels are not cheap there generally, but other stuff like transport, food, etc is (esp if you go to the really local hawker places) so it can balance out.

OK, for a completely off-your-topic question: what is your view of a safari trip to either SA or Botswana in March? I think it may be a bit rainy, but this may be the best time for my nephew who is in high school. Several of my sisters and I are trying to plan a trip for next year. From what I read in the guidebooks, I think June is preferable, but March may work better for his schedule. Any advice/thoughts?


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for bali villas you might try www.balidiscovertours.com

Cicerone - you are worth your weight ingold - truly!
Bali is now top of my list and I love the villa hire idea. Before we look further into it, may I ask a stupid question: we stayed in a friend's private villa in Mallorca two weeks ago and we thought it would be great to self cater but could we find fresh salads and the like in the supermarkets - NO! ok we are spoilt here with super fresh foods, but if we self cater in a villa in Bali how easy is it to buy greatlocal food - 4 in a restaurant for 3 meals a day gets tiring and expensive? Villa Jepun looks lovely and i know the husband will be sold if there is a boat and water involved.
All the culture and scenery sounds perfect.

Maldives - hmm - still looks good, but I know by day 3 I shall be bored, I maybe I can head home via Maldives around 8th - 11th January and keep the visit short, sweet and affordable. I will check out all your hotel suggestions

rhkk - thanks I will check out your link too.

March in Cape Town is lovely - still very hot and you won't get too much in the way of rains further north then. I have said to Bob before, that one of the best forums for safari info is trip advisor - not every ones favourite but search their SA or Cape Town forum and read away.
If you come as far as Africa- you absolutley must come to Cape Town - the prettiest place on earth - it has so much to offer and your nepheew will not be bored - how old is he?
Flights down to CT are very inexpensive on Kalula, Mango and One Time - check them out. You will need to hire a car down here, but thats very cheap and easy

most of the villas in bali come with staff, so they will get you all you want to eat....the open air markets are full of stuff!!

i think i have another link for villas . let me look

i did have a couple of favorites:

www.villauma.com/index
www.balibagus.com
www.balieats.com
has some rentals

Wow - thanks - it looks like we are off to Bali! Thanks for the food advice - I am glad we can eat Bali with an emphasis on fresh fruit and veg - I felt the staple diet in Spain was the ham baguette - unless you were in a restaurant of course.

I will now plan in more detail and no doubt come back with more specific questions. This board has been amazing - particulalry this forum - our entire 5 week SE Asia trip was planned with your help!

There are supermarkets in Bali, and there are also local markets where you can buy fresh produce. You may not always find lettuces like radicchio, mescaline, etc at the local markets, but you will find local alternatives to these greens. There are some upscale gourmet type supermarkets (BaliDeli esp), that carry fresh salad materials that you may be more familiar with, they are going to be more expensive of course because they are imported. But generally if you want to cook local, including local fruit and veg, then you should have no problem. Also with pastas, cereals and other dried Western foods, you should have no issue. Wine, beer, etc is easily available. (I have to express some surprise at your not being able to find fresh vegetables in a place like Mallorca, but I have not lived there, just visited and stayed in a hotel, so was not really looking to cook. In Europe generally, however, I found when living in Switzerland that the quality and quantity of produce was excellent in most places.)

For Nusa Dua which is the area of Villa Jepun, I know that there is a supermarket just off the main road leading into Nusa Dua, past the police station on a street off to the right there. I vaguely recall the name as something like Dairy Farm, but am not sure. On the map with the Villa Jepun website (click “Facilities and Location”), it appears that there is also the Tragia Supermarket (sp?), but there may be two in that area, or the name is not what I recall. There is also a good local produce market on this road. There is also the BaliDeli, which is Seminyak/Kuta, which would be a further drive, maybe 20-30 minutes. I know that they have vegetables from the US/Australia, and also imported cheeses. They have a little take-out deli restaurant as well. Excellent fresh breads and pastries. Kuta itself has several supermarkets as would Denpassar.

I have rented a house in Seminyak and thought it was very nice. See
http://www.laksmanavillas.com/villajemma/index.html. This is a compound of several villas of varying sizes and prices. I have rented Villa Jemma with friends on two occasions in the last 18 months or so. Each of the 5 or so villas which comprise the compound is set in its own garden and has a good-size pool, the furnishings, etc are in good shape and nicely done. There is a full kitchen that is well fitted-out. They can provide a cook for meals if you want or you can self cater. The prices for meals does by the cook are actually quite reasonable, and it is so lovely to come back from the beach and have lunch made for you!! There are also several good restaurants nearby, including GadoGado, as well as KuDeTa which is a good place for sunsets, or the really lovely and good Living Room. There is a good spa (Bodyworks) practically outside the front door. The one drawback I personally found to this place was that it had no views and was not on the water, but I can’t say anything negative about the villa itself or the service. It is a very short walk to the beach, which is a pretty, long wide beach, there is a strong undertow on the current, but if your children are not young I think it would be fine. You could surf here or go to Uluwatu area. (If your husband really wants to surf, then Uluwatu is the place, which is near the Nusa Dua area, so the Villa Jepun may be a better location for you. Glorious sunsets from the temple at Uluwatu above the surf.)

For the Maldives hotels which I posted on yesterday, I have to correct my own post. Sun Island is more like a 45 minute boat ride, and it in South Male Atoll. I was actually thinking of another resort in North Male Atoll run by the same company which is closer to the airport, called Paradise Resort. This is just about 15-20 minutes by boat from the airport. It seems to be quite a bit more expensive than Sun Island, so at those prices I am not sure it is worth it when you could get an international-standard hotel for a similar price. If you are going to take such a short trip to the Maldives, you probably want to be closer-in by boat and not have to be tied to the floatplane schedules. (Boats can make the run at night, which means they coordinate well with nighttime flight arrivals or departures.) The Four Seasons Kuda Hurra would be another very good location if you don’t mind paying higher prices on par with the Conrad (but I like the FS water bungalows better and the Four Seasons has a better house reef IMO).

Thanks for the info on SA, I personally would love to include Cape Town if not a camp in SA, and am trying to convince the other sisters (I have 5, and 3-4 of us would be on this trip, and it’s always a negotiation for everything, which is why I think I became a lawyer). I think the penguins, etc would definitely appeal to my nephew who will be 15 then and is a wildlife nut.

Cicerone - thank you once again. I am going to buy a guide book to Balia and have a good read so I canget a breaing onthe place and the lay of the land.

If so many of you are coming to SA you shoud seriously consider renting a villa - hotels here are expensive and beware they often quote per person per night qhich I think is stupid. Take a look at:
www.capevillas.com and www.capevillacollection.com

I can check them out for you if you narrow it down some.

Also take a look at www.buffeldrift.com. Its a small game reserve in the Karroo - about 4-5 hours drive from here - but what a drive! and would include visits to the Cango caves, ostrih farms etc. We love it there and you can book &quot;tents&quot; on the the waters edge and lie inthe bath and listen to the hippos - wow! the tents further back are cheaper. If you go there as a group negotiate a better rate. The food there is ok, but Ican recco soem good restaurants in the town nearby. Buffels does not have lions - or didn't last time I was there, so you don't get all the big five, but its a lot cheaper than some of the big game reserves up north. Also you can visit Spier in the Cape and interact with the cheetahs - really good. Near Buffels is a good animal ranch where you can handle white tigers and baby lions if they have them at the time. My 12 year old is animal mad and your nephew will have a great time here. If it were me I would head straight to the Cape and spend at least 2 weeks here and include Buffels and the Karoo. The weather in March is glorious and its not peak season!
Bob same applies to you as I know you are also thinking of coming down - maybe we should have one of your Fodors get togethers in Cape Town - I'll provide some Cape wines!

Malaysia is really interesting and varied - hot and humid most of the year.
Thanks for the lead to this site - it is great!