jessy123

i can hardly wait to get to BKK to see for myself what all the controversy is about! I have a feeling BKK will be very exciting and thrilling but also overwhelming which is what 4 days at the beach will be for. Hopefully some time for R&R at our bkk hotel too..
BILL T--thanks for the Julie Taxi tip..I've contacted her. Is she has good as Ratt with the cold water/attentiveness? cheers!

BillT

I don't have first hand knowledge about Julie- but she has gotten some good reviews here- maybe search on Julie's taxi and see what posts come up.

BillT

Yes Jed all those points are correct. I think we have a classic case of - Is the glass half full or half empty.

rhkkmk

i will tell you fully at our dinner, but in the meantime from florida i will answer this way:

BKK:

people
price
hotels
food
shopping
not the heat and humididy
ease of getting to other asian places
exoticness
the wild sex and drugs....hahaha

other places:

vietnam
bali
malaysia
myanmar
cambodia
laos
singapore

rhkkmk

sorry---cities:

singapore
K/L
hanoi
luang prabang
siem reap
bali as a whole
yangon

laurieco

Jed, I also HATED Bangkok on my first visit there. The thing I hated most was constantly being stuck in traffic. We were not on the river that first trip and had to take taxis everywhere (the skytrain was not yet built). Honestly, having a Ratt or Julie wouldn't have made a bit of difference since none of the cars could go anywhere. It took an average of 25 minutes to get through a traffic light and what should have been a 30 minute trip turned into a 90 minute ordeal. I tend to get motion sick in stop and go traffic so I was feeling sick much of the time. The heat and humidity didn't help, I thought I was going to faint most of the time. I also thought it was ugly, dirty and depressing, not like Europe and Australia, the places I was used to visiting. This was my first trip to Asia, along with Hong Kong, and it was like a slap in the face. I was expecting exotic beauty and instead got gray and dilapidated.

But three years later, we decided to go back to Thailand and give BKK a second chance. This time we stayed at the Shangri-La and used the boats and water taxis most of the time (the skytrain was by now in the process of being built but not yet running). Since I knew what to expect in terms of the weather and the grunginess of the city, it wasn't a shock to me like it was the first time. Bangkok went from being the worst city in the world to my favorite. I've been back several times since and plan on going back in May. I learned how to handle the heat, crowds, chaos etc and learned that it is a beautiful city, although not always apparent on the surface. You need to look for it, but it's there. The smiles of the people, the Buddhist Wats when people are praying, the flowers, spirit houses with incense drifting from them, the gentleness of the Thai people, all of these combine to make a beautiful place. Once you open yourself up to accept that beauty comes in different packages and on different levels, BKK becomes a magical place. I realize it's not for everyone but I truly believe that most people who give it a second chance and go with an open mind will come to love it. Everything you say about BKK is true, it is all of that but so much more. Maybe that's the reason so many of us love it, the contradictions are so apparent.

BillT

laurieco:
Have you used Ratt or Julie? If you did I think you would find that they know the bottlenecks around the city and find ways to avoid them. Case in point. We stayed at the Penn and Ratt parked her car across the river and she met us at the hotel, we rode the Penn's boat across the river and then started our journey- thats because the bridge traffic at that time was too heavy. She then was able to get around rather easily, we did not sit in traffic for long periods.
Now tuk tuks or taxis- thats a different story- you may very well sit in traffic as its in their interest to keep you longer.

laurieco

Bill, when did you go? The skytrain has helped to alleviate some of the traffic problem. Also, at that time, we were at the Amari Watergate, which is in a congested area so there was no way to avoid the congestion. I've never used Ratt or Julie but on that first trip we did have a driver part of the time. In all honesty, I prefer to not have a driver. I'd rather be on my own and now that we stay at the Pen, we hardly ever need to take taxis, we use the skytrain and water taxis. We will however need a driver on the next trip to get to the Prasart Museum.

BillT

We went 2 years ago. We did both- tour about without Ratt using the skytrain and used her for 1/2 days. If we ever go back to BKK (we generally do not repeat destinations as the world is a big place and we have not seen it all yet) we will probably get Ratt for a number of days to take us all over. Its never a question of needing a driver- its just that it makes life so much easier and hey after all you are on vacation. A lot of people pay buku bucks to fly Business class, stay at 5 star hotels, eat at nice restaurants but for some reason think that getting a driver insn't a good idea. They somehow feel that their freedom is restricted in some way- its not! Why not treat yourself to such service?

laurieco

Bill, I guess part of the reason is that we don't do much advance planning for day by day. We may have a loose plan in the morning of what we want to do but it almost always changes as the day goes by. Having a driver would mean a somewhat fixed itinerary for the day and if we get wishy-washy about our plans, then we will be at the mercy of where a driver thinks we should go. But as I said, on the next trip, we will have a driver for at least one day and we'll see how it goes and if we like it.

terryr

Wow, all of your responses are great and confirms that there is a wide opinion about Bangkok, which doesn't always come through on this forum, and that it may not be for everyone...but then again, it is a city that can grow on you. Especially as second-time visitors, I imagine that you come more prepared and with a different set of expectations than on your first visit. I appreciate what Icuy and laurieco said...that the beauty of Bangkok is not always apparent on the surface.

Having heard so much positive review about this city from this forum prior to our departure, I was a bit disappointed in my own response to Bangkok while there...they certainly were not as negative as Jed's, but I was expecting to fall in love with the place, which I did not. I mean, I loved many parts of it, but did not fall in love with the sum total. It's useful to hear from others that they felt the same way too their first time, but grew to appreciate it even more overtime. My takeaway in this discussion is that Bangkok often requires more than one chance if one really wants to get to know it and to know "the mysterious sauce" that makes this city so special to so many.

BillT

I think you have hit on a perception shared by many. Here is how we look at it. You hire Ratt or Julie for the day- 8 hours. They take you anywhere (a little bit extra if you go out of town).
You can have a set agenda or you can change it all day long- it does not matter- she is there to drive you. Many people in Asia that are somewhat well to do have full time drivers- they drive to where ever their employer asks them to go. Same thing here- you are paying for her time- you decide. If you want she can give you ideas but its up to you to decide where to go. We went all over with Ratt and it was not always planned out. We said where can we go to find good knockoff bags? Ratt took us to a few places. Then we said lets go Gold shopping- and off we went to Chinatown. We did some sight seeing as well and on the way we stopped at some places enroute. It can be planned or spur of the moment- it doesn't matter. Its all about what you want and never having to worry about getting there!!!!

jacqui72

bill, what's the value of a 1/2 day driver--do you think it's worthwhile? 10hrs is a long time to have a driver. I just found out ratt's available one day we're in bkk, so we are considering it...

laurieco

Bill, you've convinced me to give it a try. We always hire drivers in SEA, such as in Vietnam, Burma, etc so why not BKK. I guess we always felt comfortable going around BKK on our own since we feel "at home" there. Since we will have a driver to take us to the Prasart, we'll keep the driver for the day and see how it goes. At this point, I'm leaning towards Julie Taxi, I'm not thrilled with Ratt's latest reviews.

CFW

This forum is mainly populated by people who love Bangkok and visit again and again, and love the malls and shopping, so it does really have a point of view. Before we went most people we talked to who had visited Bangkok or Southeast Asia actually did not like Bangkok -- said it was dirty, crowded, polluted. We didn't expect too much and ended up really liking it and are going back next month. First, we stayed on the river and LOVED everything about the Mariott which felt like a lovely tropical resort in a city. Second, we fell in love with the gentle gracious people. I think on a tour you just miss the interaction with the people, which is one of the things that makes Thailand so special. Every interaction was so pleasant. We did not have any problems with taxi drivers (all used the meter) or, surprisingly, any encounters with touts. And third, we loved the "mix" and contrasts - the exotic next to the mundane; the modern high rises next to the extraordinary wats and Grand Palace; the monks in their saffron robes contrasted with stylishly dressed office workers; the beautiful restaurants, some in beautifully restored teak houses with lovely garden settings right around the corner or down the block from sidewalk vendors with people obviously enjoying their meals and each other; the profusion of flowers at the flower market and the spirit houses everywhere -- it all seemed to more than compensate for the general grimy grayness of some of the central areas. Also, we were there for 7 days in January -- cooler weather -- and I think that having that much time meant that we did not have to run from place to place and could take our time to explore. Bangkok is certainly not for everyone, and I think we wouldn't have liked it as much if we had been on a tour -- or had stayed at the ROS, which we thought was charmless (sorry Kathie & GPanda).

CFW

Jed, I just happened to notice your post about the kindness and gentleness of the Thai people. Seems like you hit on what keeps people going back. I'm copying it here because it really captures the feeling.

Author: Jed
What impressed me most about Thailand was its people. Uniformly they were smiling, kind, and respectful.

Granted, they tried to get the most money from tourists in selling their goods and quoting taxi fares, but I realize that they were all trying to make a living. It is a difficult job to make a living there since they were hawking similar items.

But observing them was a wonderful lesson. They were soft spoken, never raising voices, never losing their temper. Every waiter, clerk, cabbie, shopkeeper was smiling and tried to do their best. I could sense the honesty, the desire to be nice. Never rude, confrontational, or gruff.

What a change from the US where some of the workers feel that they are doing you a favor. And all with their palms out expecting a tip for the most minimal of help. And getting angry and rude for the most trivial reasons.

Kindness, composure were the norm. Compare this to the US, where we feel that the way to get results is by acting and talking roughly.

What a splendid way to live. As hectic as it is, there is an underlying palpable serenity. We could all learn from it.

Where else did you visit in Thailand other than BKK?

Jed

CFW - Thanks for bringing up my previous post. I think it shows my objectivity about Thailand.

We also went to Ayuthaya, Lamphun, Lampang, Phistanulok, Sukhothai, and Chiang Mai (and Angkor Wat).

Maybe I was expecting too much, after listening to my brother-in-law who was in BKK 4 times, and still wanted more.

Next time I go to BKK, (in my next life, as there a lot of other places I want to see), I will go in December or January.

lisa

I have only been to Bangkok twice but I already know I will go there again and that I will again love it.

I love it because it is both extremely foreign (to me as a westerner) and at the same time extremely accessible. The service is fantastic. The food is amazing. The culture is fascinating.

I love Bangkok for most of the same reasons I love New York City, and it has many of the same drawbacks as well. Yes, both cities are dirty, polluted, and can be exhausting. But both cities also make me feel alive in a way that most other cities don't.

"Old" is not a word I'd use for either New York or for Bangkok. Both are quite new, actually...for both better and worse I suppose.

MaryW

First time I went to Bkk I also didn't like it - probably just too overwhelming and dirty and way too much traffic. I am use to Asian cities but that was extreme. However I went back the next year (as we were going through to somewhere else in Thailand) and grew to love it. The more I get to know it the more I like it. We go back each year now (for the last 13 years) and have a decent stop and then go on to somewhere else. In fact I usually plan around going through Bkk on purpose! There is always something still to find and see, the people are wonderful, food great, shopping great. We go in August usually so the weather is not the best but I've got use to that too. Only thing that still gets to me is the noise in the shopping malls - say like Pantip - everything is a maximum - and the traffic noise on the really busy streets. Should use some earplugs!

I still find that when I get on the plane to come home I'm starting to plot how to get back again.

glorialf

I keep returning to Bangkok because of 1) The Oriental Hotel; 2) the people and 3) getting clothes made at Cotton House and 4) the restaurants. However, I now believe that Chiang Mai is my favorite Thailand destination.