Tourism in Burma today
Oct 10th, 2007, 05:08 AM
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Tourism in Burma today
See article which is not surprising but it points out how many additional people will suffer because tourists stay away -- I'm really worried about the guides and drivers and hotel workers.
http://in.reuters.com/article/southA...29933620071010
http://in.reuters.com/article/southA...29933620071010
Oct 10th, 2007, 05:19 AM
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It's down to your own conscience.
Guides, drivers and hotel workers would doubtless be amongst the more privileged and affluent Burmese citizens. I wonder do they have to have connex to the junta to be allowed to operate at all. Anyone know?
I'm more concerned for the ordinary folk, without connections.
And the suffering of those few is far outweighed by the needs of the many.
No? Yes?
If "we" want democracy in Iraq, shouldn't "we" want it in Burma too?
Anyone care to explain the difference?
Guides, drivers and hotel workers would doubtless be amongst the more privileged and affluent Burmese citizens. I wonder do they have to have connex to the junta to be allowed to operate at all. Anyone know?
I'm more concerned for the ordinary folk, without connections.
And the suffering of those few is far outweighed by the needs of the many.
No? Yes?
If "we" want democracy in Iraq, shouldn't "we" want it in Burma too?
Anyone care to explain the difference?
Oct 10th, 2007, 05:51 AM
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In a Wall Street Journal Op Ed today, Laura Bush again called for the leaders of the military junta to step down. If only Gen. Than Shwe and his pals were subscribers...
While guides, drivers and hotel workers may be among the more affluent in Myanmar, I am sure that they don't enjoy any special privileges from the junta. One of my guides when I was there actually tutored kids in English as a second job - a prohibited activity in Myanmar.
While guides, drivers and hotel workers may be among the more affluent in Myanmar, I am sure that they don't enjoy any special privileges from the junta. One of my guides when I was there actually tutored kids in English as a second job - a prohibited activity in Myanmar.
Oct 10th, 2007, 06:00 AM
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Craig, America has lost a lot of credibility after the Iraq invasion and even with people from all around the world asking the US to withdraw the current administration will not comply. How many Iraqi civilian death attributed to the US mishandling? I think it's a lot more than what happen in Myanmar. Laura can yell and scream but not many people around here will care what she has to say. Perhaps a lady president will sort this mess out in the near future.
Oct 10th, 2007, 06:11 AM
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Hanuman - I wouldn't count on Hilary Clinton to get elected and sort out the Iraq situation. We are too deep in it just to walk away despite the objections of the rest of the world.
As for the situation in Myanmar, the USA and Mrs. Bush have NO influence. But this is one of the few topics the first lady has been outspoken about. I posted it as a point of interest and for no other reason.
As for the situation in Myanmar, the USA and Mrs. Bush have NO influence. But this is one of the few topics the first lady has been outspoken about. I posted it as a point of interest and for no other reason.
Oct 10th, 2007, 06:54 AM
#9
I didn't go to Burma on my first trip to SEA because of the boycott, but a woman I met in Vietnam went, and wound up virtually adopting her driver. So when I went I used her driver. She traveled with me, and took me to meet his family. I'd be really surprised to learn that he had connections with the junta, and while he seemed to live better than people in the countryside, he certainly wasn't living that well. However, he was operating on his own. I imagine bigger operations might have connections. I also didn't use the railways or the boat from Mandalay to Bagan because they do have government connections.
Oct 10th, 2007, 07:56 AM
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As a follow-up to an earlier post in which I mentioned a new lodge in the Burmese highlands (www.malikhalodge.com)
I emailed them to find out some more details, and see if they had any government "connections".
The response I received from them was very through, and also illustrates how many people will be hurt from the loss of tourists.
email from me-
I recently found the website for your amazing looking lodge.
As a concerned and mindful traveller, I would like to find out more details before including the lodge in my Burma travel plans.
Would you mind providing details on any "socially responsible" or charitable activities that are undertaken by the lodge or your company?
Also, can you provide any details about the owners/ownership of the lodge?
response from Malika Lodge-
Thank you very much for your email
As you are probably aware tourism in Myanmar is undergoing a crisis at the moment after the recent tragic events here, and email contact has only just been restored. At this difficult time we have had to make some rather painful cuts to our business, which I hope will only be short term
In answer to your questions, I am happy to summarise the following information for you outlining our community involvement and projects. Unfortunately some of these projects are temporarily on hold, until we see tourists begin to come back.
1, Community forrestry - planting trees to provide firewood for local villages
2, Reforrestation to offset our own carbon footprint
3, Medical doctor on site to provide basic malaria and TB prevention in the community (now on hold)
4, Agricultural support and training to establish market gardens in the village for us to purchase on a commercial basis
5, Donations to WCS of New York (Alan Rabinowitz) to assist them with environmental proection of the National parks near to Putao, which protect the headwaters of the Ayeyarwaddy River (Donation now unlikely this season)
6, Investment in our own hydro facility so we can provide clean energy and donate a portion to the surounding area in off and low seasons. (now on hold)
Finally, the lodge is owned by myself (Australian) and my burmese wife Omar, who spent most of her life in the UK, where her father is a retired doctor. We are a 100% private company and have financed the lodge and our first business "Balloons over Bagan" entirely by ourselves over the past ten years and were assisted by intial loans from my parents.
I hope this is helpful, but in the next few weeks we are simply trying to keep our heads above water following mass cancellations across the board.
I emailed them to find out some more details, and see if they had any government "connections".
The response I received from them was very through, and also illustrates how many people will be hurt from the loss of tourists.
email from me-
I recently found the website for your amazing looking lodge.
As a concerned and mindful traveller, I would like to find out more details before including the lodge in my Burma travel plans.
Would you mind providing details on any "socially responsible" or charitable activities that are undertaken by the lodge or your company?
Also, can you provide any details about the owners/ownership of the lodge?
response from Malika Lodge-
Thank you very much for your email
As you are probably aware tourism in Myanmar is undergoing a crisis at the moment after the recent tragic events here, and email contact has only just been restored. At this difficult time we have had to make some rather painful cuts to our business, which I hope will only be short term
In answer to your questions, I am happy to summarise the following information for you outlining our community involvement and projects. Unfortunately some of these projects are temporarily on hold, until we see tourists begin to come back.
1, Community forrestry - planting trees to provide firewood for local villages
2, Reforrestation to offset our own carbon footprint
3, Medical doctor on site to provide basic malaria and TB prevention in the community (now on hold)
4, Agricultural support and training to establish market gardens in the village for us to purchase on a commercial basis
5, Donations to WCS of New York (Alan Rabinowitz) to assist them with environmental proection of the National parks near to Putao, which protect the headwaters of the Ayeyarwaddy River (Donation now unlikely this season)
6, Investment in our own hydro facility so we can provide clean energy and donate a portion to the surounding area in off and low seasons. (now on hold)
Finally, the lodge is owned by myself (Australian) and my burmese wife Omar, who spent most of her life in the UK, where her father is a retired doctor. We are a 100% private company and have financed the lodge and our first business "Balloons over Bagan" entirely by ourselves over the past ten years and were assisted by intial loans from my parents.
I hope this is helpful, but in the next few weeks we are simply trying to keep our heads above water following mass cancellations across the board.
Oct 10th, 2007, 08:49 AM
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I have been ambivalent about going to Burma the last few yaers and have had a list of destinations long enough to keep me busy without going there. But the news today that a monk died during interrogation is a sea change for me. That we read of one instance of death by interog in a regime of great secrecy is revealing. It sounds about as attractive now as North Korea.
Oct 10th, 2007, 02:12 PM
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I'm with Clive. There's not enough oil in Myanmar to attract the attention of GWB. BTW, what do you think Laura's chances of getting anything in the WSJ would be if she were not the first lady? Bob would have a better shot.
Oct 10th, 2007, 02:34 PM
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As long as Americans continue drive monstrous SUV's (and Volvo's), and need to heat their McMansions, oil will be important - its part of our foreign policy so get used to it. Obviously, the first lady has a certain status that earns her the right to be published, same as Hilary or Eleanor or Lady Bird. Given Laura's 90% approval rating versus the 11% rating of the US Congress, I'd rather hear from her than any of our incompetent legislators. Bob's approval rating is off the charts.
Oct 10th, 2007, 09:04 PM
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There is an interesting 'for and against' article on this link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...a-news-106.xml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...a-news-106.xml
Oct 11th, 2007, 03:53 AM
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Crellston - oh, I agree, absolutely.
I was just parrotting the stuff put about by Bush and others to justify the invasion. Crap, total crap.
But much better coming from you (assume you are American) than me.
Thx.
Good to know we've not all been hoodwinked.
I was just parrotting the stuff put about by Bush and others to justify the invasion. Crap, total crap.
But much better coming from you (assume you are American) than me.
Thx.
Good to know we've not all been hoodwinked.
Oct 11th, 2007, 04:00 AM
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For you Aung San Suu Kyi lovers, here're some interesting reading:
http://www.myatmyanmar.net/aungsan/
and according to a lot of folks it was the British who had a hand in killing her father. To quote a Burmese friend:
"Myanmars rose against the British to win back independence, sacrificing sweat, blood and lives. Capitalists of the west put the blame on Myanmar and bore grudge against it as Myanmar people fought against them fiercely. Under the plot of the British, Myanmar leaders led by Bogyoke Aung San, who bravely fought against the colonialists, were assassinated.
During the time of the British administration, the Britishs bred the lackeys and used them. In Myanmar history, the most prominent lackey in the time of the British was Galon U Saw. As they assassinated Kanaung Prince by using their lackeys they followed the same method in assassinating General Aung San. They sowed discord between national leader General Aung San and power maniac Galon U Saw who hindered General Aung San s independence struggle. Galon U Saw did not sign the Aung San - Attlee Agreement.
Instead of returning to the home and together with General Aung San, Galon U Saw was left behind in England. He was engaged in a conspiracy in collusion with the British. On his return, Galon U Saw plotted lo assassinates General Aung San. He secured assistance from a British arms depot. Major Young and Captain Vivian of the British Army issued arms from Botahtaung COD godown to the assassins. Only two or three sten-guns would be enough to assassinate Bogyoke Aung San. But a great number of arms were issued to the assassins. Major Young gave one sub-machine gun, three American carbines, one Stan gun, two Tommy guns, one Luga pistol and two revolvers and Major Lance Dane one rifle, two Tommy guns, one carbine and many magazines to U Saw in 1946.
As the cabinet made up of General Aung San and other leaders vas in session on 19 July 1947, the followers of Galon U Saw arrived and as assassinated them. With the assassination of General Aung San, national unity was in jeopardy.
Captain Vivian was serving a term in Insein Jail for supplying arms to Galon U Saw to assassinate Bogyoke Aung San when, during the Insein battle, the KNU took him away and made him their mentor.
On 12 August 1950, KNU leader Saw Ba U Gyi, Saw San Kay and a British army officer, Captain Vivian, were killed at Tawkoekoe village in Kawkareik area under an attack of the Myanmar Army.
According to the histroy and an article written by General Aung San his grand father Bo Min Yaung, one of the Myamar's hero who against the colonist British to win back independence was beheaded by the British."
Hail Britannia!
http://www.myatmyanmar.net/aungsan/
and according to a lot of folks it was the British who had a hand in killing her father. To quote a Burmese friend:
"Myanmars rose against the British to win back independence, sacrificing sweat, blood and lives. Capitalists of the west put the blame on Myanmar and bore grudge against it as Myanmar people fought against them fiercely. Under the plot of the British, Myanmar leaders led by Bogyoke Aung San, who bravely fought against the colonialists, were assassinated.
During the time of the British administration, the Britishs bred the lackeys and used them. In Myanmar history, the most prominent lackey in the time of the British was Galon U Saw. As they assassinated Kanaung Prince by using their lackeys they followed the same method in assassinating General Aung San. They sowed discord between national leader General Aung San and power maniac Galon U Saw who hindered General Aung San s independence struggle. Galon U Saw did not sign the Aung San - Attlee Agreement.
Instead of returning to the home and together with General Aung San, Galon U Saw was left behind in England. He was engaged in a conspiracy in collusion with the British. On his return, Galon U Saw plotted lo assassinates General Aung San. He secured assistance from a British arms depot. Major Young and Captain Vivian of the British Army issued arms from Botahtaung COD godown to the assassins. Only two or three sten-guns would be enough to assassinate Bogyoke Aung San. But a great number of arms were issued to the assassins. Major Young gave one sub-machine gun, three American carbines, one Stan gun, two Tommy guns, one Luga pistol and two revolvers and Major Lance Dane one rifle, two Tommy guns, one carbine and many magazines to U Saw in 1946.
As the cabinet made up of General Aung San and other leaders vas in session on 19 July 1947, the followers of Galon U Saw arrived and as assassinated them. With the assassination of General Aung San, national unity was in jeopardy.
Captain Vivian was serving a term in Insein Jail for supplying arms to Galon U Saw to assassinate Bogyoke Aung San when, during the Insein battle, the KNU took him away and made him their mentor.
On 12 August 1950, KNU leader Saw Ba U Gyi, Saw San Kay and a British army officer, Captain Vivian, were killed at Tawkoekoe village in Kawkareik area under an attack of the Myanmar Army.
According to the histroy and an article written by General Aung San his grand father Bo Min Yaung, one of the Myamar's hero who against the colonist British to win back independence was beheaded by the British."
Hail Britannia!
Oct 11th, 2007, 05:31 AM
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As if often the case the "civilized" western countries like England and the USA often back the villians in other countries unrest and are often behind coups and assasinations -- and often they don't have happy ending. Everyone wants to forget how the US backed Pol Pot and yes, our now enemy, the Taliban.
Oct 12th, 2007, 05:30 AM
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Crellston - Equally implicated yes. I will never, ever, understand what Blair thought he was up to.
But a question for you, and all, would the US have invaded Irag without the support of other countries? Isuspect they would have done.
I guess one day the records will come out, and the US Freedom of Information provisions are great in this respect, as they will come out relatively quickly. Will they have any political impact when they do emerge? Hard to say.
I guess what I really loathe is the hypocrisy, manipulation, and the sense that the ruling enclave feels it can do pretty much anything it wants to, because nobody much cares anymore. All too interested in buying the latest stylish consumer goodie.
The western model of "democracy" is predicated on the demos being engaged in the process.
But a question for you, and all, would the US have invaded Irag without the support of other countries? Isuspect they would have done.
I guess one day the records will come out, and the US Freedom of Information provisions are great in this respect, as they will come out relatively quickly. Will they have any political impact when they do emerge? Hard to say.
I guess what I really loathe is the hypocrisy, manipulation, and the sense that the ruling enclave feels it can do pretty much anything it wants to, because nobody much cares anymore. All too interested in buying the latest stylish consumer goodie.
The western model of "democracy" is predicated on the demos being engaged in the process.
