Tour Group?
Jul 17th, 2010, 10:47 AM
#21
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In a country where the language is a problem, we prefer to go first by tour group and after that on our own. On our first trip we used Pacific Delight mostly because it seemed to go to all the places, Bejing, Sian, Guilin, Shanghai, Yangtse Cruise and was the cheapest.
It was a great tour. While it is true that the eating establishments did not even compare with Panda Express, you must remember that Chinese food in China is not really the same as US Chinese food.
While, it is also true there is not supposed to be tipping in China but Chinese are born capitalists. One of the reasons that our tour was so good was that when we got to some place crowded, our tour was singled out to go to the front of the line. The reason was that our tour guide, Judy, had collected tips at $2 per person per day. She then put the money in envelopes with each destination on it. She selected someone from the tour to be responsible for making sure that it was all given out to the guides. She chose my husband so I am positive it was all given out. When the guides saw her, they knew that there was a good tip in it for them, hence we always walked to the front of the line.
It was a great tour. While it is true that the eating establishments did not even compare with Panda Express, you must remember that Chinese food in China is not really the same as US Chinese food.
While, it is also true there is not supposed to be tipping in China but Chinese are born capitalists. One of the reasons that our tour was so good was that when we got to some place crowded, our tour was singled out to go to the front of the line. The reason was that our tour guide, Judy, had collected tips at $2 per person per day. She then put the money in envelopes with each destination on it. She selected someone from the tour to be responsible for making sure that it was all given out to the guides. She chose my husband so I am positive it was all given out. When the guides saw her, they knew that there was a good tip in it for them, hence we always walked to the front of the line.
Jul 17th, 2010, 01:58 PM
#22
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> It was a great tour. While it is true that the eating establishments did not even compare with Panda Express, you must remember that Chinese food in China is not really the same as US Chinese food.
I must admit I'm a little confused by this. I'm assuming Panda Express is some kind of Chinese fast food outlet somewhere in the West and thus by definition utterly dreadful. Of all the many pleasures of visiting China, the food is one of the greatest--its immense variety (much of it completely unknown to the West), its almost universally vastly superior quality (not least because it's actually authentic), and its remarkable cheapness. So if the food given on the tour was even worse than the worst fast food in the West, it's really hard to see how this can be a 'great tour'.
Pacific Delight used to be one of those companies that sent along a foreign tour manager to keep an eye on things and prevent accommodation substitutions, the additions of extra shopping stops and so on, but according to one of their former employees who posted here this came to an end the year before last. Certainly what seems to be meeting with approval here is the sort of corruption that surely ought not to be encouraged, and which only helps to make things get worse. The duty of the tour leader is to protect you from that sort of thing, not encourage it.
The excuse 'but Chinese are born capitalists' seems to indicate that it is acceptable that foreigners be targeted for extra charges that local people would not even be asked for (and certainly would not pay). If foreigners are willing to condone this sort of behaviour it can hardly be surprising that the Chinese tour industry is so full of it, and tour groups are so often cheated in so many other ways.
I must admit I'm a little confused by this. I'm assuming Panda Express is some kind of Chinese fast food outlet somewhere in the West and thus by definition utterly dreadful. Of all the many pleasures of visiting China, the food is one of the greatest--its immense variety (much of it completely unknown to the West), its almost universally vastly superior quality (not least because it's actually authentic), and its remarkable cheapness. So if the food given on the tour was even worse than the worst fast food in the West, it's really hard to see how this can be a 'great tour'.
Pacific Delight used to be one of those companies that sent along a foreign tour manager to keep an eye on things and prevent accommodation substitutions, the additions of extra shopping stops and so on, but according to one of their former employees who posted here this came to an end the year before last. Certainly what seems to be meeting with approval here is the sort of corruption that surely ought not to be encouraged, and which only helps to make things get worse. The duty of the tour leader is to protect you from that sort of thing, not encourage it.
The excuse 'but Chinese are born capitalists' seems to indicate that it is acceptable that foreigners be targeted for extra charges that local people would not even be asked for (and certainly would not pay). If foreigners are willing to condone this sort of behaviour it can hardly be surprising that the Chinese tour industry is so full of it, and tour groups are so often cheated in so many other ways.
Jul 18th, 2010, 06:52 AM
#23
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If the corruption referred to is extra tipping ($2 pp to jump a line, when most groups hardly wait in line at all), I agree; that one seems outrageous (who watched the envelopes every night, and were they sealed?) 
However, I hope the poster is not extolling the virtues of Panda Express (not so much "dreadful," but very consistent and limited; bowl of rice, with stir-fried vegetables, or chicken, or beef), but warning others that if they expect the food to be like their neighborhood restaurant, it won't be. (For example, don't expect soy sauce!)
If the poster really thinks Panda Express "chinese" food is better? Sounds like they visited only the horrible factory-stop or tour-group places, and not regular restaurants. The food one finds wandering around is, indeed, vastly superior (and cheap, unless you're visiting a hot spot on the Bund in Shanghai).
However, I hope the poster is not extolling the virtues of Panda Express (not so much "dreadful," but very consistent and limited; bowl of rice, with stir-fried vegetables, or chicken, or beef), but warning others that if they expect the food to be like their neighborhood restaurant, it won't be. (For example, don't expect soy sauce!)If the poster really thinks Panda Express "chinese" food is better? Sounds like they visited only the horrible factory-stop or tour-group places, and not regular restaurants. The food one finds wandering around is, indeed, vastly superior (and cheap, unless you're visiting a hot spot on the Bund in Shanghai).
Jul 18th, 2010, 07:02 AM
#24
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<i>Peter N-H: If, on the other hand, you are planning to stay in a Chinese-managed hotels then if you go to them directly you will typically pay a great deal more, and possibly double, what you will pay if you simply <u>show up at the counter and bargain</u>.</i>
LOL! Here's a little help to get started on the language skills you'll need to bargain for your bed.
http://everything2.com/title/Chinese+dialects
LOL! Here's a little help to get started on the language skills you'll need to bargain for your bed.
http://everything2.com/title/Chinese+dialects
Jul 19th, 2010, 08:14 AM
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I followed PeterN_H's advice and believe I saved quite a lot on my rooms. I simply showed up at the counter, where I was almost always offered a substantially discounted rate and sometimes successfully bargained for an even lower price. All it required was a phrase book and willingness to try.
Jul 19th, 2010, 04:16 PM
#26
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> All it required was a phrase book and willingness to try.
Well said, and well done. And this, of course, is the common experience of thousands of people travelling independently around China even as we speak, and who are negotiating their hotels as they go, paying substantially less (not uncommonly less than 50% of the supposedly official rate, routinely 70% of it, just as the Chinese all do). Indeed, all it takes is the smallest amount of gumption and not even a phrase book. The willingness is all.
Well said, and well done. And this, of course, is the common experience of thousands of people travelling independently around China even as we speak, and who are negotiating their hotels as they go, paying substantially less (not uncommonly less than 50% of the supposedly official rate, routinely 70% of it, just as the Chinese all do). Indeed, all it takes is the smallest amount of gumption and not even a phrase book. The willingness is all.
Jul 20th, 2010, 05:02 AM
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KJA: Didn't you post this in your trip report?
<i>"things I liked least:..... the frustrations of being unable to express myself well or to understand others (particularly those who didn’t know pinyin and so couldn’t use my pocket dictionary, which was alphabetized by pinyin, to find words)"</i>
I guess I just don't need the frustration at the end of a long hot day. I, too, <i>"believe I saved quite a lot"</i> by letting R. Crusoe bargain for my rooms at the Ritz Carlton or the Four Seasons. Although you-know-who will say that my beliefs are wrong and yours are correct. Oh well. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this bargaining for a bed thing. Saving five dollars is rarely the most important of my goals.
<i>"things I liked least:..... the frustrations of being unable to express myself well or to understand others (particularly those who didn’t know pinyin and so couldn’t use my pocket dictionary, which was alphabetized by pinyin, to find words)"</i>
I guess I just don't need the frustration at the end of a long hot day. I, too, <i>"believe I saved quite a lot"</i> by letting R. Crusoe bargain for my rooms at the Ritz Carlton or the Four Seasons. Although you-know-who will say that my beliefs are wrong and yours are correct. Oh well. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this bargaining for a bed thing. Saving five dollars is rarely the most important of my goals.
Jul 20th, 2010, 05:29 AM
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And, if you are an older female, traveling with same (or even alone), on your first visit, with only your phrase book, the VERY LAST thing you want to do is go hunting and bargaining for your hotel. This would be a trip-killer for me.
Jul 20th, 2010, 06:44 AM
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To each one's own. If you want to go on a tour, by all means do so. But I think the point, Sylvia, is that one can, indeed, bargain for rooms even without speaking Chinese. I've bargained for many things over the years with people who spoke none of my language and I spoke none of theirs. And this has nothing to do with either gender or age.
TC, it has been said many times here that if you want to stay at the Ritz or the Four Seasons or any other western-owned hotel, you'll get the best price by contacting the hotel directly in advance. The bargaining instructions are for Chinese-owned hotels.
TC, it has been said many times here that if you want to stay at the Ritz or the Four Seasons or any other western-owned hotel, you'll get the best price by contacting the hotel directly in advance. The bargaining instructions are for Chinese-owned hotels.
Jul 20th, 2010, 08:07 AM
#30
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I've always pictured arriving in a strange city and going to a particular hotel you'd like to stay at and bargaining for rooms only to find out they are full, nearly full, or not in a bargaining mood that day, then schlepping on to another hotel -- when your second choice might even be miles away. Just not my idea of a "fun way" to start a trip just to save a few dollars.
And there are numerous reports here of people who reserved at CHINESE hotels months before going and got savings of up to 50% that way -- I'm doing so myself in both Beijing and Shanghai. But some of these same people reported returning for a stopover a week later, or trying to bargain for an additional night and ending up paying much more for that night than the original special booked price.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not suggesting paying the full 'rack' rates for a hotel in China makes any sense-- why would you do that?, but it does seem like preplanning and advance booking can get you just as good of deals, sometimes better, or at least close enough that the peace of mind KNOWING where you're going to bed down for the night may be "worth" it to some travelers.
And there are numerous reports here of people who reserved at CHINESE hotels months before going and got savings of up to 50% that way -- I'm doing so myself in both Beijing and Shanghai. But some of these same people reported returning for a stopover a week later, or trying to bargain for an additional night and ending up paying much more for that night than the original special booked price.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not suggesting paying the full 'rack' rates for a hotel in China makes any sense-- why would you do that?, but it does seem like preplanning and advance booking can get you just as good of deals, sometimes better, or at least close enough that the peace of mind KNOWING where you're going to bed down for the night may be "worth" it to some travelers.
Jul 20th, 2010, 08:22 AM
#31
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Speaking of hotels, increasingly my preferred type of accommodations are the Chinese chains of 3* budget business hotels. There's no bargaining, as the prices are listed and firm, though you may get a discount if you join their frequent stayer club.
Unlike other hotels where the list rate may be 400RMB and you need to bargain down to 180RMB (say at a large provincial capital like Chengdu, Lanzhou or Xining, but not Beijing or Shanghai); these hotels simply list their price as 180 or 200RMB.
We've recently stayed at two of these chains - Home Inns and GreenTree Inns - and they are very satisfactory. Similar to a Holiday Inn Express in the US.
So, just book it and go straight to the hotel. Save all the hassle.
Unlike other hotels where the list rate may be 400RMB and you need to bargain down to 180RMB (say at a large provincial capital like Chengdu, Lanzhou or Xining, but not Beijing or Shanghai); these hotels simply list their price as 180 or 200RMB.
We've recently stayed at two of these chains - Home Inns and GreenTree Inns - and they are very satisfactory. Similar to a Holiday Inn Express in the US.
So, just book it and go straight to the hotel. Save all the hassle.
Jul 20th, 2010, 10:07 AM
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Kathie: I think I got "the point."
One can certainly bargain to one's hearts content; however, after double-digit hours on an uncomfortable plane, exhausted and frazzled, who the hell wants to truck around Beijing, or wherever, wasting time just to find a bargain? Not me. But by all means, if you have the energy after that, go for it. After a 13+ hour flight and time change, I like to know where I'm staying and get there, not fumble for my phrase book and hope for the best.
One can certainly bargain to one's hearts content; however, after double-digit hours on an uncomfortable plane, exhausted and frazzled, who the hell wants to truck around Beijing, or wherever, wasting time just to find a bargain? Not me. But by all means, if you have the energy after that, go for it. After a 13+ hour flight and time change, I like to know where I'm staying and get there, not fumble for my phrase book and hope for the best.
Jul 20th, 2010, 12:07 PM
#33
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sylvia, i didn't get the impression Kathie was saying you have to do that with ALL hotels on your trip...and certainly didn't see anywhere in her post where she said you must do this at the FIRST hotel you stay in.
her point is a good one and should be well-noted for flexible travelers looking for unadvertised savings. folks who are willing to wing it a bit can score massive discounts on occasion.
her point is a good one and should be well-noted for flexible travelers looking for unadvertised savings. folks who are willing to wing it a bit can score massive discounts on occasion.
Jul 20th, 2010, 01:32 PM
#34
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Several more detailed and accurate descriptions of fixed-rate business hotels from the last couple of years will be found by clicking the 'advanced search' link above, and searching postings and replies over the last couple of years for the term 'jingji'.
A summary of mainland Chinese hotel types and the different booking methods for each was published under another thread just last month:
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...nohotelcom.cfm
I hope that helps those still to make their travel decisions, although it has little to do with the original question posed.
A summary of mainland Chinese hotel types and the different booking methods for each was published under another thread just last month:
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...nohotelcom.cfm
I hope that helps those still to make their travel decisions, although it has little to do with the original question posed.
Jul 20th, 2010, 03:30 PM
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I think that negotiating on the spot for a hotel room is a good option for some, and this thread is definitely helpful and a money saver for those who might not otherwise have thought it was possible.
It's not for me, though, at least not with my current trip planning.
I'm finding that over the years my travel style is changing. While my goal used to be to find a clean bed, now my hotels are a big part of my travel experience. I tend to travel in the high season for some reason, so I book far in advance in order to get a room at my choice hotels. And I'm willing to pay a premium for it.
Then there's the reason listed by others above about running from place to place. As a solo traveler with luggage, it's not ideal to have a taxi wait out front (with my luggage in the boot? and will the driver even understand?) while I try to negotiate a room, and then drive somewhere and try again.
Most importantly, and I don't think this has been addressed, is that when traveling solo, I make sure people back home have my detailed itinerary and contact information. I make it a habit of keeping in touch regularly via email, but if for some reason something goes wrong, they will at least know where I am supposed to be.
Yes, this costs in money and decreased flexibility, but it saves in peace of mind
It's not for me, though, at least not with my current trip planning.
I'm finding that over the years my travel style is changing. While my goal used to be to find a clean bed, now my hotels are a big part of my travel experience. I tend to travel in the high season for some reason, so I book far in advance in order to get a room at my choice hotels. And I'm willing to pay a premium for it.
Then there's the reason listed by others above about running from place to place. As a solo traveler with luggage, it's not ideal to have a taxi wait out front (with my luggage in the boot? and will the driver even understand?) while I try to negotiate a room, and then drive somewhere and try again.
Most importantly, and I don't think this has been addressed, is that when traveling solo, I make sure people back home have my detailed itinerary and contact information. I make it a habit of keeping in touch regularly via email, but if for some reason something goes wrong, they will at least know where I am supposed to be.
Yes, this costs in money and decreased flexibility, but it saves in peace of mind
Jul 21st, 2010, 05:47 AM
#36
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An earlier response on this seems to have got lost in the ether. Briefly:
Thanks for recognising, as many others seem not to, that 'I wouldn't do this' isn't the same as saying 'it can't, isn't, or shouldn't be done'.
Turning up and bargaining only works for Chinese-run hotels (where it is standard procedure) and not at any hotels that might be 'a big part of the travel experience', although I'm not sure that China has any of these, nor that most visitors are going to be spending must time in their rooms anyway. Once adequate levels of comfort and security are achieved then it's a matter of style, and the choice at four- or five-star level (if something at least approaching those standards is required) will be a foreign-run hotel where discounts at the counter, if any, will be slight. Booking through the hotel's own site, especially if you strongly favour a particular property, is indeed best.
High season in China may very well not be what you think it is, though, and of course varies from destination to destination within China. It bears no relation at all to high seasons for travelling in Europe or North America, for instance. High season there tends to be a period of low demand in China. As it is, there's a vast oversupply of hotel rooms at every level for most of the year in most parts of China, and the chances of being turned away are slight.
People do just turn up and bargain using public transport, let alone taxis. Hotels are usually in clusters so seeing two or three more (if desired) isn't usually a problem. There's no problem leaving your luggage in the taxi, but it's usually better to get a fresh one anyway since meter rates increase by up to 50% after a few km (the rules vary from city to city). Obviously it's best to travel with luggage you can easily manage, but if you're overloaded the bell boys will bring it in, and take it out again if you don't stop. Hotels don't even mind looking after your luggage while you stroll off, if you wish, and if not solo its easy for one to stay with luggage while the others look. No doubt to some this seems a tremendous fuss, but to others it's perfectly straightforward and no fuss at all.
Communication from Chinese-run hotels down to three-star and often well below includes free wi-fi or Ethernet cable link, and public Internet terminals for free or very low prices. That, or a text message, will put you in touch with home within minutes of arrival.
The benefits are making sure your room is acceptable before you occupy it; having a chance to stay at fresh, new, hotels at very low prices; and paying less (sometimes a very great deal less) for whatever (Chinese-run) hotel you choose.
Many prefer not to book ahead wherever they travel, in order to retain flexibility, But 'peace of mind' is certainly in the head of the beholder (or something) and it's each to his own.
Peter N-H
Thanks for recognising, as many others seem not to, that 'I wouldn't do this' isn't the same as saying 'it can't, isn't, or shouldn't be done'.
Turning up and bargaining only works for Chinese-run hotels (where it is standard procedure) and not at any hotels that might be 'a big part of the travel experience', although I'm not sure that China has any of these, nor that most visitors are going to be spending must time in their rooms anyway. Once adequate levels of comfort and security are achieved then it's a matter of style, and the choice at four- or five-star level (if something at least approaching those standards is required) will be a foreign-run hotel where discounts at the counter, if any, will be slight. Booking through the hotel's own site, especially if you strongly favour a particular property, is indeed best.
High season in China may very well not be what you think it is, though, and of course varies from destination to destination within China. It bears no relation at all to high seasons for travelling in Europe or North America, for instance. High season there tends to be a period of low demand in China. As it is, there's a vast oversupply of hotel rooms at every level for most of the year in most parts of China, and the chances of being turned away are slight.
People do just turn up and bargain using public transport, let alone taxis. Hotels are usually in clusters so seeing two or three more (if desired) isn't usually a problem. There's no problem leaving your luggage in the taxi, but it's usually better to get a fresh one anyway since meter rates increase by up to 50% after a few km (the rules vary from city to city). Obviously it's best to travel with luggage you can easily manage, but if you're overloaded the bell boys will bring it in, and take it out again if you don't stop. Hotels don't even mind looking after your luggage while you stroll off, if you wish, and if not solo its easy for one to stay with luggage while the others look. No doubt to some this seems a tremendous fuss, but to others it's perfectly straightforward and no fuss at all.
Communication from Chinese-run hotels down to three-star and often well below includes free wi-fi or Ethernet cable link, and public Internet terminals for free or very low prices. That, or a text message, will put you in touch with home within minutes of arrival.
The benefits are making sure your room is acceptable before you occupy it; having a chance to stay at fresh, new, hotels at very low prices; and paying less (sometimes a very great deal less) for whatever (Chinese-run) hotel you choose.
Many prefer not to book ahead wherever they travel, in order to retain flexibility, But 'peace of mind' is certainly in the head of the beholder (or something) and it's each to his own.
Peter N-H
Jul 24th, 2010, 07:48 AM
#37
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Ah, but China most definitely does have Chinese-run hotels that are a big part of the travel experience. I was fortunate enough to experience several of them on my first visit to China (and not by accident, but from lots of research). Whether it be breathtaking views from the room or the rooftop terrace, a warm and welcoming proprietor who treats you like family or an inviting courtyard that lends itself to socializing with fellow guests, these are the experiences that tend to make travel even more special.
Jul 25th, 2010, 03:15 PM
#38
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You all miss the very point that there are people that do not want to hassle with making all the necessary arrangements to go see a country as far away as China. You all think everyone is an independent "lonely planet type" that will venture off and take situations as they come and revel in the adventure...then there are people that want to see the most for the shortest period of time regardless...of course no one wants to be cheated by travel agents but they perform a safe venture for those wanting that style of travel and they serve a purpose..of course you won't get down and dirty with the locals but people are different and one should not chastise those for wanting to take that path, instead accurately tell the pros and cons and respectfully allow the person to make their own choice...by the way, I lean towards the independent travel side becuz I want the control of my time....but I have taken tours before and was satisfied for my objective at that time. You pay a little more but everything is down for you.
Jul 26th, 2010, 06:41 PM
#39
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> Ah, but China most definitely does have Chinese-run hotels that are a big part of the travel experience.
The sense of 'big part of the travel experience' I was assuming was 'hotel that you would travel to China in order to stay in'--a place sufficiently exciting/charming/appealing so as to be part of the destination's appeal. Much discussion of hotels on this site is of this kind, assuming that it really really matters which of the five stars is chosen, how many microns of gold there are on the bath taps, etc. There are some very fine hotels in China, but in this sense none sufficiently fine to draw people half-way round the world on their own merits (unlike various Hong Kong properties, for instance).
But if 'big part of the travel experience' simply means hotel with some charm, a family atmosphere, a welcoming proprietor, or where a collection of like-minded travellers was found, or that is attractive for some other reason you were pleased to have found, then of course China has many.
But this isn't any argument for booking in advance, and indeed 'lots of research' in no way guarantees that you find these, since most Chinese hotels have effectively no Internet presence at all, and indeed having a sufficient reputation to have an Internet presence can in some cases be a significant disadvantage. Nor, if you have nevertheless identified Chinese-run choices in advance (and research in advance mean you won't have seen hundreds that have opened but have received no publicity), is that any argument for booking in advance. The best rates will still be obtained over the counter.
Again, 'I wouldn't do that', is no argument against it being done. And the sole purpose here is to set out the various options, and the realities of China travel so that people can make informed decisions, whether for fully-escorted tours, fully independent travel, or something in between, and avoid unnecessarily paying more than they need to do.
The sense of 'big part of the travel experience' I was assuming was 'hotel that you would travel to China in order to stay in'--a place sufficiently exciting/charming/appealing so as to be part of the destination's appeal. Much discussion of hotels on this site is of this kind, assuming that it really really matters which of the five stars is chosen, how many microns of gold there are on the bath taps, etc. There are some very fine hotels in China, but in this sense none sufficiently fine to draw people half-way round the world on their own merits (unlike various Hong Kong properties, for instance).
But if 'big part of the travel experience' simply means hotel with some charm, a family atmosphere, a welcoming proprietor, or where a collection of like-minded travellers was found, or that is attractive for some other reason you were pleased to have found, then of course China has many.
But this isn't any argument for booking in advance, and indeed 'lots of research' in no way guarantees that you find these, since most Chinese hotels have effectively no Internet presence at all, and indeed having a sufficient reputation to have an Internet presence can in some cases be a significant disadvantage. Nor, if you have nevertheless identified Chinese-run choices in advance (and research in advance mean you won't have seen hundreds that have opened but have received no publicity), is that any argument for booking in advance. The best rates will still be obtained over the counter.
Again, 'I wouldn't do that', is no argument against it being done. And the sole purpose here is to set out the various options, and the realities of China travel so that people can make informed decisions, whether for fully-escorted tours, fully independent travel, or something in between, and avoid unnecessarily paying more than they need to do.
Jul 26th, 2010, 07:10 PM
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"and avoid unnecessarily paying more than they need to do."
Well, that is the very basis of difference of opinions here. No one "needs" to go to China at all. And little of what one does when we travel is based on "need". So it's understandable that while some people's main goal on a trip may be to see how little they spend -- for others, a little convenience or less "last minute worry" is worth spending a little more -- or in some cases a lot more. While some love riding around in taxis or rolling suitcases up and down sidewalks after a long flight bargaining for super hotel find they should be encouraged to do that. Especially those whose favorite topic after a vacation is what bargains they got (and there are lots of people who travel for that very reason). And granted some travelers are stretching their budgets to their limits just to be there and really do "need" to count every penny then spend. But for others who would rather arrive with a contract in their pocket and knowing exactly where they are going to sleep and how much it is costing them, or want a confirmed address for people back home to call them in an emergency -- that extra money has nothing to do with "need" -- it simply has to do with how they enjoy travel. Some people may look at these travelers as foolishly spending more than they "need to" -- but that could be said about going to a great restaurant or taking a taxi when a bus is all they "need" or flying business or first class instead of coach. To each his own is right.
Well, that is the very basis of difference of opinions here. No one "needs" to go to China at all. And little of what one does when we travel is based on "need". So it's understandable that while some people's main goal on a trip may be to see how little they spend -- for others, a little convenience or less "last minute worry" is worth spending a little more -- or in some cases a lot more. While some love riding around in taxis or rolling suitcases up and down sidewalks after a long flight bargaining for super hotel find they should be encouraged to do that. Especially those whose favorite topic after a vacation is what bargains they got (and there are lots of people who travel for that very reason). And granted some travelers are stretching their budgets to their limits just to be there and really do "need" to count every penny then spend. But for others who would rather arrive with a contract in their pocket and knowing exactly where they are going to sleep and how much it is costing them, or want a confirmed address for people back home to call them in an emergency -- that extra money has nothing to do with "need" -- it simply has to do with how they enjoy travel. Some people may look at these travelers as foolishly spending more than they "need to" -- but that could be said about going to a great restaurant or taking a taxi when a bus is all they "need" or flying business or first class instead of coach. To each his own is right.
