Tipping in China
Jul 18th, 2007 | 10:49 AM
#42
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
I just recently got back from vacationing in Beijing, Xi'an, HK and Thailand. I own two restaurants in a major Mexican tourist resort so I read this posting before I left being curious as what to do.
When we arrived in Beijing we were picked up at the airport by a guide and driver. I had purchased a package and although I didn't want the tours or the meals because I wanted to do this on my own it was the most economical for me and I liked the idea of having someone waiting for me at the airports with transportation. On the way to the hotel I asked our female guide about tipping and she said "Oh yes, it is important to tip". We were a bit surprised. I asked how much and she said well the driver should get Y100 and for us to decide what to give to her. We were going with her on a tour to the FC and the return trip to the airport so we didn't tip on this day.
That night we went to the Wangfujing arts & crafts market - restaurant area. We were enjoying big bowls of noodles at a communal table. A family of 3 sat at our table and the teen daughter could speak some English. We chatted and being very curious about the tipping I asked if we tip. They all said definitely not.
When we went to restaurants we watched what the Chinese were doing and no one tipped. It felt strange to us because it is such a HUGE thing here. Then at one restaurant we were very happy and tried to tip the waitress and she just wouldn't accept it.
We had a different guide when we went to the wall and he said yes, it was correct to tip and when we tried to tip the waitress there she also didn't want to take it until he said something in Chinese to her and she reluctantly took it. (could he have said accept it please so you don't blow it for me?) This guide did such a good job for us that I was happy to tip him anyway.
In Hong Kong we noticed that there was a 10% tip added to the bills.
Also in HK I tried to tip the cleaning lady in the washroom of a restaurant and a Chinese woman washing her hands said "no tips accepted, we are an honest country" ? ? ?
Thailand was another story.
Funny story - I used to work in a Irish Pub in Calgary. We had a lot of customers from the British Isles which with the French are notorious for being lousy tippers. One of the bartenders had a T-shirt made that she wore very often that said "Tipping is not a city in China".
When we arrived in Beijing we were picked up at the airport by a guide and driver. I had purchased a package and although I didn't want the tours or the meals because I wanted to do this on my own it was the most economical for me and I liked the idea of having someone waiting for me at the airports with transportation. On the way to the hotel I asked our female guide about tipping and she said "Oh yes, it is important to tip". We were a bit surprised. I asked how much and she said well the driver should get Y100 and for us to decide what to give to her. We were going with her on a tour to the FC and the return trip to the airport so we didn't tip on this day.
That night we went to the Wangfujing arts & crafts market - restaurant area. We were enjoying big bowls of noodles at a communal table. A family of 3 sat at our table and the teen daughter could speak some English. We chatted and being very curious about the tipping I asked if we tip. They all said definitely not.
When we went to restaurants we watched what the Chinese were doing and no one tipped. It felt strange to us because it is such a HUGE thing here. Then at one restaurant we were very happy and tried to tip the waitress and she just wouldn't accept it.
We had a different guide when we went to the wall and he said yes, it was correct to tip and when we tried to tip the waitress there she also didn't want to take it until he said something in Chinese to her and she reluctantly took it. (could he have said accept it please so you don't blow it for me?) This guide did such a good job for us that I was happy to tip him anyway.
In Hong Kong we noticed that there was a 10% tip added to the bills.
Also in HK I tried to tip the cleaning lady in the washroom of a restaurant and a Chinese woman washing her hands said "no tips accepted, we are an honest country" ? ? ?
Thailand was another story.
Funny story - I used to work in a Irish Pub in Calgary. We had a lot of customers from the British Isles which with the French are notorious for being lousy tippers. One of the bartenders had a T-shirt made that she wore very often that said "Tipping is not a city in China".
Jul 18th, 2007 | 12:51 PM
#43
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 27,709
Likes: 1
"no tips accepted, we are an honest country" ? ? ? - could it be that a tip is looked at as a bribe? As in, "I'll give you extra money, and you'll give me better service". For example, a post on a different thread described giving a room butler money at the beginning of the stay. Or as an insult. As in "I'm giving you extra money because I don't think you'll do a good job otherwise".
And isn't it telling that even in tipping countries, we don't tip people we think of as "professionals"? I'd be expected to tip a person giving me a massage at a spa, but not someone with special training I see at my physical therapist's office.
And isn't it telling that even in tipping countries, we don't tip people we think of as "professionals"? I'd be expected to tip a person giving me a massage at a spa, but not someone with special training I see at my physical therapist's office.
Jul 19th, 2007 | 12:50 AM
#44
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 0
Good point, thursdaysd!
I'm pretty surprised to hear how many people are told to tip their tour guides what sounds to me to be a lot of money. On the one guided tour we've taken (the classic Ming Tombs/Great Wall at Badaling), we did not even consider tipping the guide - nor did the Chinese who filled the other half of the bus.
I also don't expect to tip anyone at our hotel (though as I mentioned, I personally will make an exception for the housekeeping staff with a gift of some sort).
I really wonder what the influx of foreigners for the Olympics will do to the culture here. American friends of mine who are long-term residents of Beijing seem to think it won't make much of a dent, other than those areas already affected by Western habits (such as tour guides). I think I'm beginning to agree...
I'm pretty surprised to hear how many people are told to tip their tour guides what sounds to me to be a lot of money. On the one guided tour we've taken (the classic Ming Tombs/Great Wall at Badaling), we did not even consider tipping the guide - nor did the Chinese who filled the other half of the bus.
I also don't expect to tip anyone at our hotel (though as I mentioned, I personally will make an exception for the housekeeping staff with a gift of some sort).
I really wonder what the influx of foreigners for the Olympics will do to the culture here. American friends of mine who are long-term residents of Beijing seem to think it won't make much of a dent, other than those areas already affected by Western habits (such as tour guides). I think I'm beginning to agree...
Jul 19th, 2007 | 04:30 AM
#45
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,073
Likes: 0
Let me add something about tour guides. You don't have to worry about <b>corrupting</b> them. They are already <b>corrupted</b>, and for many many years already.
The whole "profession" exist by getting kick-backs from stores.
thursdaysd asked if they get paid. In many cases, not only were they <b>not paid</b> a salary, but instead they pay <b>pay they own money</b> to be a guide.
Their practice is so horrible that saying US tourists corrupt them is laughable. Majority of the travelers and those who "hire" these guys are Chinese - domestic, or from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. The whole thing has literally nothing to do with US tourists.
The whole "profession" exist by getting kick-backs from stores.
thursdaysd asked if they get paid. In many cases, not only were they <b>not paid</b> a salary, but instead they pay <b>pay they own money</b> to be a guide.
Their practice is so horrible that saying US tourists corrupt them is laughable. Majority of the travelers and those who "hire" these guys are Chinese - domestic, or from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. The whole thing has literally nothing to do with US tourists.
Jul 19th, 2007 | 07:02 AM
#47
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
rkkwan, you're absolutely right in that travelers can't add corrupting elements to the system.
When I was living in Beijing, I had a friend who was a tour guide and she did get a salary, but it was not a living wage. The bulk of what she made was from kickbacks AND tips from foreign guests. A guide who gets both kickbacks and solicits tips is corrupt in my book, because they are taking advantage of their customers who tip them not knowing about the tips they already paid indirectly through purchases.
But, is getting kickbacks from shops corruption? It is just another revenue model for a culture where nobody tips. If everyone knows the score in advance, then I do see it as corruption.
When I was living in Beijing, I had a friend who was a tour guide and she did get a salary, but it was not a living wage. The bulk of what she made was from kickbacks AND tips from foreign guests. A guide who gets both kickbacks and solicits tips is corrupt in my book, because they are taking advantage of their customers who tip them not knowing about the tips they already paid indirectly through purchases.
But, is getting kickbacks from shops corruption? It is just another revenue model for a culture where nobody tips. If everyone knows the score in advance, then I do see it as corruption.
Jul 19th, 2007 | 07:35 AM
#48
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,073
Likes: 0
baaj - Let me make this very clear. When I use the term "corruption", I mean in a moral/social way. Not talking about a crime or legal matter.
---
Another example, Chinese touring companies had been running "$0 tours" from Southern China to Hong Kong until the practice is "outlawed" recently after an expose run by China's CCTV. Free tours, free transportation, free hotels.
Well, you tell me how they recover the cost, let alone make money?
---
Another example, Chinese touring companies had been running "$0 tours" from Southern China to Hong Kong until the practice is "outlawed" recently after an expose run by China's CCTV. Free tours, free transportation, free hotels.
Well, you tell me how they recover the cost, let alone make money?
Jul 19th, 2007 | 08:11 AM
#49
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
rkkwan, no offense meant - I was just trying to elaborate on your point. But again this perspective is coming from someone who avoids tours altogether, as I don't want to waste my valuable vacation time in gift shops or silk factories, etc.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't necessarily see a problem with a company making money in this way, as long as they are transparent to the guests about how they make their money. (I'm guessing that the 0$ tours you mentioned above weren't so forthcoming?) I suppose the danger is that a kickback-based system can easily get out of control.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't necessarily see a problem with a company making money in this way, as long as they are transparent to the guests about how they make their money. (I'm guessing that the 0$ tours you mentioned above weren't so forthcoming?) I suppose the danger is that a kickback-based system can easily get out of control.
Jul 19th, 2007 | 01:11 PM
#50
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,922
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I'm sure rkkwan and some other posters would know much more about this than me, but I think kickbacks are a deeply embedded practice and would not be seen by Chinese people as "corrupt". But then, more serious and damaging forms of corruption are also embedded and increasingly being acknowledged by officialdom as a problem.
Not a Chinese example, but when an Australian friend of mine working in Vietnam went for a business lunch in HCMC his Vietnamese colleague was amused to be offered a kickback by the restaurateur, who had drawn the conclusion that he was my friend's guide.
Not a Chinese example, but when an Australian friend of mine working in Vietnam went for a business lunch in HCMC his Vietnamese colleague was amused to be offered a kickback by the restaurateur, who had drawn the conclusion that he was my friend's guide.
Jul 19th, 2007 | 01:34 PM
#51
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
All these posts about tipping makes me realize we probably got ripped. Our info from the tour company was "Tipping in China is expected. It is appropriate to tip bellman and ports around $1-$2/person. It is customary to tip your guide $4-$6 per day/person."
I should have looked into this further before we left!! ):
I should have looked into this further before we left!! ):
