rhkkmk

shorts....my feeling about shorts in thailand is that they belong around the pool or hotel and at the beach and resort locations....

i find long pants protect me against the sun and river waters and mud found around town...

i would feel odd going into a nice restaurant or hotel for lunch in shorts, and they definately are not appropriate for wats and anything royal....people wear them but i would fee odd in them....

and yes tong is the best...

food: do you not like thai food? some is not spicy... and btw you are not alone....

glad the trip was good and i knew the kids would love the marriott

Statefan

I completely understand no shorts in wats / nice restaurants and would feel socially uncomfortable in them in either scenario (as I would in the US). My crew all dressed appropriately in the few wats we actually entered. Nice restaurants are not in our vocabulary so that was never an issue. Coconut Palm was the nicest restaurant we ate in the entire trip.

We like the Thai basics just fine, but can only eat so much rice in 3 weeks. No seafood inhibited our menu options, too.

rhkkmk

i'm also so glad you feel 5 days in bkk is not enough...but of course 2 of your days were outside bkk...
i think you might want to look at hua hin for jan... the hyatt there is even better than the marriott in some ways...

LAleslie

Thanks for the nice trip report Statefan. It's nice you took your kids to a place that will broaden their horizons for the rest of your life, and broadened your own too. Try a little well-prepared fresh fish sometime (you may have been raised on bad frozen stuff, and thus the aversion)and you may become a convert.
Agreed that shorts are no problem most places these days. But as an American wary of how we present ourselves overseas, I find rhkkmk's postion refreshing. I have always hated them on men AND women, despite the fact that they are now universally accepted. To me, they show disrespect and a lack of modesty in the name of personal comfort. Plus they are just plain unflattering and unstylish on almost everyone. Unfotunately, traveling Westerners and pop culture have made them cool worldwide.
I'm forever asking my husband to wear long pants when we're abroad. He always argues we won't be going to anyplace with a dress code. But travel is serendipitous, and we inevitably wind up coming across a nice looking restaurant or boite or other attraction that we don't go into because of how he's dressed. In India, he put on long pants and a decent shirt for dinner at an upscale Mumbai restaurant. Most of the new-rich yuppie Indians and their families were wearing shorts, or jeans and T-shirts. Now everyone looks like everyone else.
I do understand the swelter and the kids. And I'm not actually the Old Fart I sound like!

Statefan

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I don't quite understand what's wrong with shorts in non-formal places, but that's probably because I know my Creator put me on this planet without a single stitch of clothes on!

amarena

Still hoping you will report on your Bali adventure!!

AskOkssana

We wore shorts in most places in Bangkok and were fine

amarena

Enough about everyone's personal philosophy on travel apparel! Statefan, I still would love to hear about what the kids liked or disliked in Bali!

Statefan

So sorry for the delay. I've committed a major Fodors faux pas and started planning my next trip without finishing my trip report. What's the penalty?

I did make some progress on a plane ride to the West coast this week. I've not proofread it and am sure it's going to be more stream of conscious than anything organized. Here goes (I will do my best to finish this weekend):

Getting to Bali – June 20

The great thing about frequent flier miles is the free trips. The downside, however, is the quirky routings you sometimes have to take to get somewhere. First, there was no way to get from Chiang Mai through Bangkok to Denpasar without having to overnight in Bangkok. I did not want to give up a night Chiang Mai, however, so we moved to plan B. Plan B involved an all day adventure from Chiang Mai to Bangkok to Singapore to Denpasar. I believe our first flight departed ~9am and we landed in Bali at 9pm. Add in an hour to get to Ubud and you’ve had a long day.

We added Bali to our itinerary because it seemed like a safe bet in case we hated Thailand. I intentionally put Bali at the end of the trip for just that reason – if Thailand was a bust, at least we would end up on a high note with Bali.
We’re fortunate in that both of our mothers have places on the NC coast so visits to the beach are never high on our vacation priority list. We decided that we wanted to pick on place to base ourselves for the entire stayi since we had done a fair amount of moving around in Thailand (not so easy with little kids). We liked the sound of Ubud and picked that as our focal point since it appeared we could still get anywhere we wanted to go via day trips. We settled on 9 days, partially because of FF award availability and partially because we wanted to make sure we had enough time to pace ourselves. This was the first real mistake I made in our agenda. I’ll get to that later.

We had planned to stay in the suites at Alam Jiwa and Alam Indah, sister properties to the popular Alam Shanti. The more we thought about it, however, the less we liked the idea of staying outside of town and having to rely on a walk through Monkey Forest or using the hotel shuttle service. So, we ended up booking with Kajane Mua. This was the 2nd big mistake I made. I’ll also get to that later, but rest assured there is nothing wrong with Kajane Mua as a property.
Anyway, a Kajane Mua representative picked us up at the airport for the hour ride to Ubud. It was late so the kids crashed in the car while I tried to keep some sort of conversation going with our driver. He was friendly, but a bit difficult to understand at times. It was Saturday night and a senior Gov’t official was in town so traffic was heavy all the way through Sanur with lots of visible police presence. I admit to start wondering what I had gotten us into, but that ended up being the only time we saw so many law enforcement officials.

By the time we got to Kajane Mua it was close to 11:30p. We were tired and ready to hit the sack, but our host insisted on bringing us tea and going over every single detail in our villa, Loji Gagga. By the time everyone left (porters, folks bringing the tea, host), it was well after midnight.

Before I get into the trip, I should offer our opinion on Kajane Mua. Loji Gagga is way at the back of the property so there are lots of stairs to navigate. I’m in above average physical condition and even I started to get worn out by the stairs after the 3rd day. Towards the end of our stay, they started dropping us off at the back entrance at night which was MUCH better. I guess someone must have heard me whining about the steps!

The first surprise about our villa was the layout. This is really my fault, but I was under the impression the “lounge area” you see in the pictures was actually inside. It’s really outside so the only air conditioned spaces are the bedrooms and bathrooms. This was a problem in terms of seating (only one chair in the bedroom). The free wireless Internet access only seemed to work outside as well. So, if you wanted to sit and chat and/or get on the Internet, you had to do it outside, albeit in some shade. Also, if you have them make the downstairs bed into a double, there is no headboard so there is nothing to rest against if you want to sit up in bed.

You get upstairs via the stairs outside and the upstairs has its own key – this was the 2nd surprise. So, instead of getting a “villa”, we really got 2 large, not connected, hotel rooms and a private pool. I ran upstairs the 1st morning expecting to have a gorgeous view from the balcony, only to be greeted with a view of nothing. While the rooms are tastefully decorated and the bathroom is huge, we were completely underwhelmed with the entire experience given the price we paid.

Negatives aside, the private pool was great. We could hear the folks in the villa next door when they were using their pool, but that was the only time. The villa is very private visually so you could run around buck naked all day and I doubt anyone would be the wiser. Not that we would ever do that, but some of you Fodorites never cease to surprise me.
Everything you read about the staff is true. They are all very friendly and speak to you when you walk by. Nothing is too much trouble for them. To be honest, the folks at the front desk were almost too nice for our liking. We enjoy smiles and warm greetings (see our comments on BKK Marriott), but don’t really want to have to have a lengthy conversation about what we are doing / have done every time we pass by someone. It got to the point where we started speed walking past them to avoid getting trapped. I’m sure that makes us sound snooty, but you have to stay there to understand.
One other comment about the staff – about halfway through our stay, Cheryl and I both concluded they would say yes to just about anything we asked just because they wanted to please us. Or, they did not understand what we were saying and just agreed to be polite. I think it was a combination of the 2. In any event, we made some less than stellar choices restaurant and activity-wise as a result.

Ok, now on the actual trip…

Ubud - June 21

I made prior arrangements with the famous Putu for our first 4 days. He met us at the hotel around 9am and we decided to keep the day focused on the Ubud area. I had really put all my attention on the Thailand part of the trip so we were not as prepared with ideas for Bali as we normally are.

There was supposed to be a children’s performance at one of the museums in the mid-morning so we decided to visit Pura Campuhan down by the 2 rivers. We also walked down to the river and the kids had a good time with Putu there.
When we went to the museum we found out the children were not coming because of a ceremony in their village – we decided to visit the museum anyway. Definitely not our thing and, of course, the kids were bored.

Putu offered to take us to his village and we gratefully accepted. We really enjoyed this and it was great to meet his family. All were extremely nice and doted on our kids while we learned about life in a Bali village. Putu’s mom seems like a super lady and it was interesting to watch her prepare items for an upcoming ceremony.

For lunch, Putu recommended (I am butchering this name) Leche Lekwa (it’s near Alam Jiwa) because they also had craft activities for the kids. The food was ok and the activities were fun. Lots of Japanese tourists were there and I got a kick out of watching them. I’m sure they felt the same way about us.

We called it a day and went back to the hotel for a swim and massage. The massage was included in our rate and we asked to have it poolside so the kids could swim and have fun. I’ve never had a professional massage before so this was a new experience. The underwear they give you is, uh, small and I started to get really nervous when my masseuse was a male. Skimpy underwear and a guy giving me a massage definitely had me out of my comfort zone (you have to know me to truly appreciate this). But once things got going, I forgot about my concerns and enjoyed the massage.

We went to our first dance performance tonight – the Kecak Dance. We all loved it. I still haven’t gotten that chant out of my head weeks later.

Touring Bali – June 22

Today was our wedding anniversary so we decided to buy one of Putu’s photo deals since we were way overdue for a family portrait. Basically, he brings his camera and takes photos (mostly posed) of the day’s activities.

We decided to head north first to the Botanical Gardens near Lake Butan. Along the way we stopped at several good places for pictures, including the famous rice terraces.

Just past the entrance to the Gardens is TreeTop Adventures. It’s a zipline meets obstacle course kind of deal with courses of varying degrees of height and difficulty. We spent a couple of hours here letting the kids do some of the easier courses. They both really enjoyed it, especially my daughter (she is 9 and made it through the middle difficulty courses with no problem). Highly recommend for school age kids and above.

We made a quick photo stop within the gardens – picture with the lake and volcano in the background. Nice!
The Gardens are very nice and make a great place for a relaxing day trip.

We then headed down to Pura Ulun Danu, the famous temple on the water. Lots of photos here. You can take a boat or canoe ride, but we passed.

We had lunch at a nearby tourist restaurant somewhere along the road towards Tanah Lot. Not great, but not bad either.
Rather than visiting Tanah Lot for sunset, we agreed to visit another temple on the coast just a bit south of there. This was a beautiful location – black sand beach, lots of rocks, very few visitors and a gorgeous sunset. Lots of great pictures here, of course.

Touring Bali – June 23

This morning Putu took us north again to Mt Batur. We went down to Lake Batur to a floating restaurant that also had a man-made fishing pond. The kids really enjoyed fishing for a couple of hours, then we had lunch at the restaurant. We loved this restaurant – by far the best Indonesian food we had the entire trip.

After lunch we took a short hike across the lava rocks – our son thought that was “awesome.”

Next stop was the nearby hot springs. The kids enjoyed it, but the women and girls outside selling things were easily the most obnoxious we encountered anywhere on the trip. All things considered, I don’t really see the big deal about the hot springs, especially since we had a great pool at the hotel (side note I failed to mention – the pool is deep everywhere; my wife is 5 ft 6” and could not touch the bottom.
Headed back to the hotel for dinner and another dance performance. I believe we this one was the Ramayana Ballet at the Palace. It was interesting - even my 6 yr old sun enjoyed it, esp. the monkey. When I need a laugh from the gang, all I have to do now is try to move my hands like those dancers and do the eye movement.

Touring Bali – June 24

The Bali Arts festival was going on in Denpasar so we decided to head there for the morning. Putu said it would be very local and not touristy and he was right. We walked around a while, did some shopping and then went to the performance. It had the same type of music as the typical dances, but the show was a comedy with a little bit of dancing. This was very interesting in that the entire thing was done in Indonesian so we had no clue as to what was being said. Apparently, the show was funny because there was a lot of laughter from the audience. It was very crowded so we were not able to sit near Putu and get a running commentary. We all had fun though just watching the crowd, especially all the kids.

Lunch was at a nearby local restaurant.

We did the tradecraft circuit on the way back - pottery, textiles, silver and wood. All interesting, but no purchases.

In our limited research on Bali, I found Putu had taken another Fodorite to visit a mask maker. Apparently this guy is one of the original mask makers and I knew the kids would enjoy a stop. This fellow is quite a character! His masks are quite a bit more expensive than the masks you see in the markets and souvenir stores, but we liked the thought of supporting a local artisan instead of something mass produced. The kids got to pick one mask and I debated getting another for our home theater / family room, but decided against it.

We went to another performance tonight – I believe it was at a museum (Agung?). The show was short and overpriced . The show itself was fine though.

Next up are the last 4 days with Bali Dean (popular on TA)…

Smeagol

Fantastic report, really enjoying the details and style (I too think " The Pizza Company! It was actually really good. Yes, we’re pitiful" is a KILLER line, it really made me laugh.

Am so glad you got to meet the lovely Tong and love Thailand (like most of us on this board) looking forward to the rest of the details.

amarena

Very informative and entertaining report! Can you post Putu's contact information, please? I'll try searching the board as well. How did his photos turn out?

We had reserved a villa at Kajane Mua as well, but I switched it a few months ago to rent a home in Penestanen. We leave in a couple of weeks!! Yay!

Looking forward to reading about the next 4 days!

Gpanda

There is a special penalty for beginning a report and taking an inordinate amount of time to complete it. However, you'll have to have a much larger delay to even approach the transgression of Ekscrunchy. Part of her penalty was being forced to have dinner with me and Bob. A penalty does not yet apply, but we're watching closely.

Putu is a gem.

We're staying at the KM in Ubud in May. We'll see whether the staff is capable of remaining nice to me. A true test of their hospitality.

Statefan

I have not forgotten - promise to complete it soon. The rest of the trip was real touristy stuff like Bali Bird Park, snorkeling at Blue Lagoon, Waterbom and a lazy day.

Statefan

Touring Bali – June 25

With 9 days in Bali, there was no way I was putting all of our guide eggs in one basket. Putu received great feedback from Fodorites that for some strange reason I trusted even though I’d never met them. He was a good choice and 4 days was perfect.

I ran across many positive references for Dean on TA so we decided to secure his services for the remaining 4 days of our trip.

Dean met us at the Kajane Mua in the morning and we discussed what we wanted to do. The funny part was we had already hit most of the popular day trip spots so he had to get creative. We settled on a trip to Bali Bird & Reptile Park to start. I was a little taken aback by the admission price to the park, but it was still cheaper than it would have been at home. We spent a few hours here checking out all the shows and animals. Highlights included seeing Komodo dragons and petting huge iguanas. There were also several species of snakes we’d never seen, including some huge ones. We had a good time here, but we love animals. I can see how others might not think it is worth the cost.

We have a quasi-home theater and it was killing me that I did not buy some masks for it (you know, the pair that are half white / half black with red lips). So, we spent 30 minutes trying to find the place since all I remembered was the town and what the building looked like. Fortunately, the mask maker was open and I got the masks! He actually signs the masks which I think is neat (sorry if I already mentioned that).

Next stop was some time in the kite village. The kids each picked out a smaller one that we’ll use on our visits to the grandparents’ beach houses. They are really nice kites and are much easier to fly than the kind you get in the States. They also fold up nice, but are a squeeze for a 25” suitcase. We ended up putting them in a shopping bag and carrying them on the plane – no problems.

We told Dean we would really like to see some type of ceremony or visit a village, if possible. We did not run across any ceremonies, but did spend about an hour in a village that was getting ready for their 5-yr funeral. This was fascinating to watch – the ladies preparing the offerings while the men worked on the “animals” to burn. The older ladies in this village were really charming and fascinated with our kids. Several of them wanted hugs and pictures and our kids were great about it. We got some great pictures as a result.

We went to a show tonight with masks and a big dragon. I forget the name, but it was good. We saw some of the same band members and performers from the Palace in this performance.

Touring Bali – June 26

While we’re not too interested in visiting beaches, snorkeling is a trump card since we can’t do that at home. Our kids had never snorkeled before so we decided to give it a go. Dean took us to Blue Lagoon in the Pandang Bay (sp?) area. This was a small lagoon with a restaurant, bathroom, beach equipment and, of course, women trying to sell you junk. We spent more than half the day here. The water was a bit too rough for our youngest to snorkel, but he had a good time anyway. Our 9-year old enjoyed snorkeling with me. The restaurant was not bad and everything from equipment to beach chairs was cheap. There was a group of older ladies offering massages for ~$6 each so we decided what the heck and all 4 of us got one. I think Cheryl and I enjoyed watching the kids reactions to the massage more than our own. I ended up getting a lady old enough to be my grandmother and she was, uhhh, not shy about where her hands went. After they left, I told Cheryl I needed a cigarette. LOL.

After the beach, we decided to drive through Candi Dasa and on to the Floating Palace. Nice drive, but nothing too exciting. We did get to see a farmer using the old way of plowing with cattle.

For evening entertainment, we decided to visit the Puppet Show at Oka Kartini. This was one of those instances where I wish the Kajane Mua people would have spoken up. When we told them where we were thinking about going, they looked at each other for a second then smiled and said “ok.” You’d think a puppet show would be ideal for kids, right? Well, there were only 3 groups at the show (all with kids) and I think every one of us would have left if it would not have seemed rude. It was interesting to see the shadow puppets for about 5 mins, but then it got boring. It was too dark to read the description of the show and, as a result, the show was impossible to follow. They gave you a quick preview of the characters beforehand, but who the heck can remember that? Anyway, we don’t recommend this for kids.

Touring Bali – June 27

By this point, we were pretty bored with Bali. Yes, it’s a nice island and the culture is interesting, but, in our opinion, Hawaii is much prettier, just as interesting and a lot closer.

We needed another “fun” day so we decided to head to the Waterbom in Kuta. We spent the entire day there and had a blast. Afterwards, we did a bit of shopping in the tourist trap streets, saw the 2 bombing locations and then rushed to beat the nighttime traffic.

Lazy night and no show tonight.

Touring Bali – June 28

We decided to take it easy today and stick around Ubud. We slept in and then made our way to the market up the street. It’s a tourist trap place, but Cheryl found some skirts she liked for the women in our family. The kids blew some of their money on cheap toys here, too.

The rest of the afternoon was spent at our private pool. Cheryl and I got poolside massages again, then she got a pedicure. The night was spent packing up for the trip home (with an overnight in London thanks to FF miles).

Concluding thoughts about Bali overall:

• It’s not Thailand! It’s not like we did not have a good time in Bali, but every night Cheryl and I both kept saying “it’s ok, but not like Thailand.” We decided a huge part of the difference is the people. Not that there is anything wrong with the Balinese people, it’s just that Thais are all so warm and friendly. We got used to their smiles and warm greetings whereas the Balinese are more like home.

• It was definitely a mistake to spend the entire time in Ubud. This place was much too sleepy for our tastes. You could walk on the streets at 9:30pm and not see anyone except a taxi driver here or there. Is that normal or a sign of the economy? We can’t help but wonder if we should have stayed in Sanur or Kuta instead.

• Balinese food is ok, but we grew tired of it quickly.

• If it weren’t for the evening performances, Bali would have been a bust for us. We definitely wish we had taken those 9 nights and allocated them to more time in Thailand instead. Don’t get me wrong, Bali is a nice place – it’s just not THAT interesting or beautiful compared to Thailand or other places much closer to the States.

• I don’t want to get into the differences between Putu and Dean on here, especially since we enjoyed both for different reasons. Feel free to send me an email if you have questions. I think each is a great fit for particular styles/interests. Both had the extreme disadvantage of having come after Tong who is simply incomparable in our opinion.

Thanks for reading. We hope it helps someone with their trip! I'm sure I'll think of a dozen more thoughts/opinions now that I'm "done."

susncrg

Statefan- OK, this may sound stupid, but, how do I send you an email? I do have some questions for you. Thanks.

Kathie

It looks like you were out touring every day on Bali. Is that right? I always do a balance of touring and relaxing (swim in the pool, a massage, a walk to nearby shops and restaurants). I would think all of that touring would be exhausting for all of you, especially the kids. It's important to have those "fun" days for everyone.

Overall, it sounds like a great trip even though Bali suffered a bit in comparison to Thailand.

Statefan

susncrg - you can send me an email at breevans at hotmail dot com

Kathie - we fly halfway across the world to see and do things we can't do at home so that pretty much involves touring, shopping and swimming in the evenings. We never got tired on this trip (well, the Tiger Temple day was long). I can assure you the kids had plenty of fun - tigers, elephants, ziplining, fishing, seeing a volvano, swimming, water park - practically our entre agenda was built around things they would enjoy. Our kids thought the trip was on par with our South Afrian safari in 2008 which is really saying something.

amarena

Thanks for the remaining report. I'm glad to hear about the puppet show... sounds like we'll take a pass on that!

It's interesting to hear your take on Bali vs. Thailand. We used to go to Bali, pre-kids, 12 years ago when we were living in Asia. We LOVED it! All our friends told us that we should check out Thailand since we liked Bali so much, so we did, in two different visits. But we were like you in reverse! We liked it, but we kept saying, "it's just not BALI!" We really connected with the Balinese family we always stayed with, so maybe that had something to do with it.

Thanks again for finishing your report! I know it gets tough after you've been home a bit, but it's been a pleasure to read!

Statefan

amarena - I hate to think what it would be like to live in a world where we all liked / disliked the same things. Talk about boring!

Based on our trip, I don't think Bali and Thailand are at all similar so it's easy for me to understand why people would like one much more than the other.

amarena

Totally agree!

We are already planning a trip to SA for August 2010, so you might hear from me later this year regarding that area with kids. I was worried that the kids would be too young, especially for the safari's -- they will be 7 and 9 next year -- but it sounds like yours loved it.