The Not-All-Golden Road to Samarkand
Oct 1st, 2016, 12:56 PM
#22
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Loving this thurdaysd! looking forward to your postings on your blog. just watched a BBC programme on the Silk road which piqued my interest in the region. You have added to that. So many places, so little time!
Loved Korea even if it did rain most of the time! Busan fish market is amazing - didn’t recognise half the fish and they must surely sell the most expensive lobster in the world.
One of these days our paths will cross! Any plans for next year?
Loved Korea even if it did rain most of the time! Busan fish market is amazing - didn’t recognise half the fish and they must surely sell the most expensive lobster in the world.
One of these days our paths will cross! Any plans for next year?
Oct 7th, 2016, 03:59 AM
#23
Original Poster
Sorry crellston, forgot I owed an answer on here. Would be great if we wound up in the same place at the same time!
For 2017 I am seriously thinking of going back to Sicily early in the year, probably with some other southern Italy and maybe Cornwall and London. Would love to make it to Iran in the fall, maybe I could get a visa on my UK passport in London.... I turn 70 next year and it would be awesone to have a birthday in Iran, except my birthday is in July.
For 2017 I am seriously thinking of going back to Sicily early in the year, probably with some other southern Italy and maybe Cornwall and London. Would love to make it to Iran in the fall, maybe I could get a visa on my UK passport in London.... I turn 70 next year and it would be awesone to have a birthday in Iran, except my birthday is in July.
Oct 14th, 2016, 03:58 PM
#24
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sartoric- You mentioned that your brother's wife is Uzbek and had nothing hood to say about it. We went back to Moscow last year and a few people my husband works with who are Russian wondered why. "There's nothing to see there." Well, how preposterous!
I think they just hated living there, that it was difficult (they are Jewish) and are now happy as Americans living here.
However when he returned to work after the trip they were very curious and seemed to soften up on their comments.
I think they just hated living there, that it was difficult (they are Jewish) and are now happy as Americans living here.
However when he returned to work after the trip they were very curious and seemed to soften up on their comments.
Oct 20th, 2016, 09:16 AM
#26
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KW:
The former UZBEK SSR seems to have brightened up a bit. We visited in 1985, flying in from Moscow. Registan was not lit up at night back then. Food was not gross, but it was bland and tasteless. Transportation was generally poor or none. But it was one helluva adventure.
One of our goals was to meet and interview the Jewish communities, most of whom were descendents of the many 1000's of Russian factory workers who were summarily "exiled" to UZBEK, equipment, machinery and all to keep them from being destroyed by the hordes of invading Nazi juggernauts.
Bukhara, Tashkent and Samarkand each had a few differences. People were standoffish, mainly because 1000's of Russian casualties from their Afghani debacle were being "cared" for in some of their hospitals and the UZBEKS wanted no part of them...so the few foreign tourists were painted with the same broad brush.
Enjoy Japan...I spent a few years of my teen age life in Beppu, Kyushu (now a major spa town), a B-29 bombed-out town on the east coast.) Did a return visit a few years back.
Pics below
The former UZBEK SSR seems to have brightened up a bit. We visited in 1985, flying in from Moscow. Registan was not lit up at night back then. Food was not gross, but it was bland and tasteless. Transportation was generally poor or none. But it was one helluva adventure.
One of our goals was to meet and interview the Jewish communities, most of whom were descendents of the many 1000's of Russian factory workers who were summarily "exiled" to UZBEK, equipment, machinery and all to keep them from being destroyed by the hordes of invading Nazi juggernauts.
Bukhara, Tashkent and Samarkand each had a few differences. People were standoffish, mainly because 1000's of Russian casualties from their Afghani debacle were being "cared" for in some of their hospitals and the UZBEKS wanted no part of them...so the few foreign tourists were painted with the same broad brush.
Enjoy Japan...I spent a few years of my teen age life in Beppu, Kyushu (now a major spa town), a B-29 bombed-out town on the east coast.) Did a return visit a few years back.
Pics below
Oct 20th, 2016, 09:32 AM
#27
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https://goo.gl/photos/Yh1Fdt6ozHwJisw46
KW I think I shared these 1985 pics with you at one time.
KW I think I shared these 1985 pics with you at one time.
Oct 21st, 2016, 01:39 AM
#28
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Interesting pictures Tower. I too have must come back from Uzbekistan (and Kyrgyzstan) and found the people so friendly and smiley these days. How politics and the world situation changes things. The only Jewish bit of Bukhara we tried to see was the synagogue but it was closed. There has been a big effort to brighten up some of the sites, especially in Tashkent, Khiva, Bukhara and Samarkand. I think tourism is taking off there but there is a long way to go.
Oct 21st, 2016, 07:33 AM
#29
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gertie, if you haven't already, please read the introductory piece to my pics....about the local Jewish woman, baby in arms, I met while standing in front of the ramshackle sinagoga. She invited us in to see the place. At night fall, we were invited to stay for their simple Shabbat dinner...we left enough money to cover it and they were so appreciative.
As you can see by the pics, we were warmly welcomed into the bigger sinagoga in Tashkent on Simchat Torah.
Our travel partners, old friends, joined us and we were feted like dignitaries. All attendees were veteran factory workers of the above mentioned "exile"...who had stayed to make lives for themselves.
As you can see by the pics, we were warmly welcomed into the bigger sinagoga in Tashkent on Simchat Torah.
Our travel partners, old friends, joined us and we were feted like dignitaries. All attendees were veteran factory workers of the above mentioned "exile"...who had stayed to make lives for themselves.
Nov 2nd, 2016, 10:21 AM
#31
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Thank you so much for traveling with MIR this fall on our Silk Route Odyssey tour and for sharing your feedback on your experiences with us. We greatly value any comments and suggestions provided by past travelers to help us improve our yearly small group and independent travel offerings.
In response to some of your comments, I do want to assure you that we take great care to keep all of our pre-trip materials and traveler information as accurate and up-to-date as possible, especially with regards to weather, as we want our clients to be fully prepared for their upcoming travels. We regularly update all of the weather information we publish, which is taken from several national databases and information from our partners and tour managers on the ground. We do our utmost to stress to our clients that weather can be highly unpredictable and will use your feedback to improve on how that information is presented in the future.
As far as the day-to-day touring schedule, we do understand that it is a rather packed program, and there are some particularly long touring days, such as the first day in Bukhara. We specifically designed this tour to provide a fully comprehensive overview of the country. Of course, travelers are always free to stay behind or miss parts of they day if they wish, and we also try to balance fully packed days with significant free time, which is why we included a second day in Bukhara left totally free for participants to explore independently. And while we’d like to be able to avoid touring during the hottest parts of the day, sometimes this just isn’t possible in Central Asia, given some of the long drives involved and the fact that some sites aren’t open to tourists in the evenings.
Timing is always a concern when trying to plan the daily schedule, as we want to make sure that everyone is able to see (and can have plenty of time to walk around) all the major and most important sites. However, in the future, we’ll do better to point out some of the longer touring days and potential scheduling conflicts due to holidays, etc. in our materials, and will better clarify some of the expectations and rigors of the tour as well.
Finally, we want to assure you that we in no way encourage or allow our Tour Managers and local staff to organize orchestrated shopping. Our Tour Managers are paid a fair and generous salary, and we include all tips to local guides, drivers, porters, and restaurant staff in the tour price, for both our staff and our travelers’ benefit. We have a longstanding reputation in Central Asia for being one of the best-paying companies in the industry, and one of the best to work with.
The reason we include plenty of opportunities for shopping in Uzbekistan is because of the country’s many beautiful and unique handicrafts. Many past travelers (even non-shoppers) have commented how they’ve enjoyed small breaks to shop for fantastic keepsakes and souvenirs of their travels, and like the slight bit of a break from touring it provides.
We hope this helps explain some of the reasons why we organized this tour the way we did. Thanks to your candid feedback, and the feedback of your fellow travelers, we can continue to improve the structure of this program and the ways we craft our messaging to our clients.
We were so glad to hear that you enjoyed many aspects of your trip from the scenery, to the food, the tour group and the Tour Manager, and sites such as the Registan and the city of Khiva. Once again, thank you for entrusting us with the handling of your adventure to Uzbekistan, and should you be interested in traveling to any of the other destinations we serve, please don’t hesitate to contact us.
In response to some of your comments, I do want to assure you that we take great care to keep all of our pre-trip materials and traveler information as accurate and up-to-date as possible, especially with regards to weather, as we want our clients to be fully prepared for their upcoming travels. We regularly update all of the weather information we publish, which is taken from several national databases and information from our partners and tour managers on the ground. We do our utmost to stress to our clients that weather can be highly unpredictable and will use your feedback to improve on how that information is presented in the future.
As far as the day-to-day touring schedule, we do understand that it is a rather packed program, and there are some particularly long touring days, such as the first day in Bukhara. We specifically designed this tour to provide a fully comprehensive overview of the country. Of course, travelers are always free to stay behind or miss parts of they day if they wish, and we also try to balance fully packed days with significant free time, which is why we included a second day in Bukhara left totally free for participants to explore independently. And while we’d like to be able to avoid touring during the hottest parts of the day, sometimes this just isn’t possible in Central Asia, given some of the long drives involved and the fact that some sites aren’t open to tourists in the evenings.
Timing is always a concern when trying to plan the daily schedule, as we want to make sure that everyone is able to see (and can have plenty of time to walk around) all the major and most important sites. However, in the future, we’ll do better to point out some of the longer touring days and potential scheduling conflicts due to holidays, etc. in our materials, and will better clarify some of the expectations and rigors of the tour as well.
Finally, we want to assure you that we in no way encourage or allow our Tour Managers and local staff to organize orchestrated shopping. Our Tour Managers are paid a fair and generous salary, and we include all tips to local guides, drivers, porters, and restaurant staff in the tour price, for both our staff and our travelers’ benefit. We have a longstanding reputation in Central Asia for being one of the best-paying companies in the industry, and one of the best to work with.
The reason we include plenty of opportunities for shopping in Uzbekistan is because of the country’s many beautiful and unique handicrafts. Many past travelers (even non-shoppers) have commented how they’ve enjoyed small breaks to shop for fantastic keepsakes and souvenirs of their travels, and like the slight bit of a break from touring it provides.
We hope this helps explain some of the reasons why we organized this tour the way we did. Thanks to your candid feedback, and the feedback of your fellow travelers, we can continue to improve the structure of this program and the ways we craft our messaging to our clients.
We were so glad to hear that you enjoyed many aspects of your trip from the scenery, to the food, the tour group and the Tour Manager, and sites such as the Registan and the city of Khiva. Once again, thank you for entrusting us with the handling of your adventure to Uzbekistan, and should you be interested in traveling to any of the other destinations we serve, please don’t hesitate to contact us.
Nov 3rd, 2016, 05:19 AM
#32
Original Poster
I am still traveling - I am typing this on the train from Kochi to Matsuyama on Shikoku island. I recently finished the UK TR (finally!), and just put up a blog post on my one day in Istanbul (not long enough for a TR). Next, when I have time between traveling, organizing travel, writing my journal, and keeping up with the mess in the US, is to load the first set of Tashkent photos and write a blog post on "Why Uzbekistan". Then I was going to come back to this thread.
I provided feedback to MIR, both on the form they emailed me, and by sending a link to this thread. I was pleased to get an email in response, to which I replied. It had occurred to me that before starting on the TR here, I should summarize MIR's response, but MIR has now saved me the trouble.
I think I will start a new thread for the TR, as this one has gotten rather long. However, I do have some comments on MIR's post.
First, thanks for clearing up the point about salaries. It only occurred to me that the guide might not be on salary because of all the shopping ops. He certainly seemed happy to be working for MIR, always a good sign.
Scheduling, Part One. In two words, global warming. What made sense 30, 20, even 10 years ago, is no longer automatically a good idea. That is why I made sure I had AC in my hotels in Berlin, Copenhagen and Stockholm last year. If temperatures are going to be in the 90s rather than the 80s, the schedule does need to change, although updating the information may be a good start. If I had expected temperatures in the 90s I would probably not have signed up.
Scheduling, Part Two. Running this tour over a holiday looks like inattention. The holiday was predictable. The impact was predictable. Yes, I did get to see the Museum of Applied Arts, but only because I had scheduled extra time in Tashkent (and three people had not), and at the expense of other sights. The visit to the silk factory just became a boring shopping op.
Scheduling, Part Three. If you have a (very) full day's worth of sightseeing in Bukhara, and two days there, it would work much better, IMHO, to sightsee both mornings and have both afternoons free. I checked my notes, and Abdu scheduled a number of "optional" sightseeing events on the second day. I did skip the afternoon options, and went out on my own later in the day.
Scheduling, Part Four. I regard shopping on tour time (unless there is a logistical imperative, as in the Ferghana valley) the same way I regard showing up late. it steals time from other tour members. However, I am aware that among Americans this is likely a minority view, and as I said in my email, I will probably go back to booking tours with English and Australian companies, although I will certainly keep MIR in mind for Central Asia and Iran.
Finally, you really should make sure that the tour includes Samarkand's Registan at night. It is a great pity that most of the people on my tour missed such a spectacular sight.
I provided feedback to MIR, both on the form they emailed me, and by sending a link to this thread. I was pleased to get an email in response, to which I replied. It had occurred to me that before starting on the TR here, I should summarize MIR's response, but MIR has now saved me the trouble.
I think I will start a new thread for the TR, as this one has gotten rather long. However, I do have some comments on MIR's post.
First, thanks for clearing up the point about salaries. It only occurred to me that the guide might not be on salary because of all the shopping ops. He certainly seemed happy to be working for MIR, always a good sign.
Scheduling, Part One. In two words, global warming. What made sense 30, 20, even 10 years ago, is no longer automatically a good idea. That is why I made sure I had AC in my hotels in Berlin, Copenhagen and Stockholm last year. If temperatures are going to be in the 90s rather than the 80s, the schedule does need to change, although updating the information may be a good start. If I had expected temperatures in the 90s I would probably not have signed up.
Scheduling, Part Two. Running this tour over a holiday looks like inattention. The holiday was predictable. The impact was predictable. Yes, I did get to see the Museum of Applied Arts, but only because I had scheduled extra time in Tashkent (and three people had not), and at the expense of other sights. The visit to the silk factory just became a boring shopping op.
Scheduling, Part Three. If you have a (very) full day's worth of sightseeing in Bukhara, and two days there, it would work much better, IMHO, to sightsee both mornings and have both afternoons free. I checked my notes, and Abdu scheduled a number of "optional" sightseeing events on the second day. I did skip the afternoon options, and went out on my own later in the day.
Scheduling, Part Four. I regard shopping on tour time (unless there is a logistical imperative, as in the Ferghana valley) the same way I regard showing up late. it steals time from other tour members. However, I am aware that among Americans this is likely a minority view, and as I said in my email, I will probably go back to booking tours with English and Australian companies, although I will certainly keep MIR in mind for Central Asia and Iran.
Finally, you really should make sure that the tour includes Samarkand's Registan at night. It is a great pity that most of the people on my tour missed such a spectacular sight.
Nov 3rd, 2016, 11:19 AM
#34
phew, read it, Thursdaysd. not sure you've sold me on visiting Samarkand [ib fact I'm pretty certain it's not a place I'll be rushing to] but it's a very good read and I'm a sucker for a controversy, especially when you get both of the parties representing their views.
Interesting that MIR chose to defend themselves here, but a shame that they failed to answer most of your points adequately, save the one about their guides' wages.
Interesting that MIR chose to defend themselves here, but a shame that they failed to answer most of your points adequately, save the one about their guides' wages.
Nov 3rd, 2016, 02:47 PM
#36
interested by your enthusiasm, get/gertie, i went in hunt of pictures and found these, which I suspect don't do it justice:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ties-buildings
still not getting it.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ties-buildings
still not getting it.
Nov 3rd, 2016, 02:52 PM
#37
Original Poster
Shame on the Guardian! Those are pretty rotten photos. Haven't looked at my photos yet, but hope they are better than that. I expected the Registan to be stunning, and it was. I would also recommend Bukhara and Khiva.
I have another two weeks in Japan, may not start the UZ TR until I get back.
I have another two weeks in Japan, may not start the UZ TR until I get back.
Nov 5th, 2016, 02:11 AM
#40
Original Poster
@ann - there was more from MIR in their email to me than in their post here. On the hotel and restaurant issue:
> Regarding the presence of “bus” tourists in hotels and
> restaurants, Uzbekistan’s range of options for dining and
> accommodations are quite limited at this juncture. Explorer series
> trips do have more depth in the range of destinations covered
> (including some sites we don’t go to on other MIR trips), and they
> are certainly more adventurous, and we keep the group size smaller,
> capped at 12. That said, we still insist on quality accommodations
> and dining options for our clients, and those being quite limited in
> Uzbekistan - our travelers (and all travelers to Uzbekistan, really)v
> are bound to see other Westerners.
Seeing other westerners is one thing. Being told you are eating in a "house" restaurant and finding said house is set up to serve lunch to 100 people at the same time is another. On the evenings when we were supposed to eat on our own, Abdu did not come up with useful suggestions. In Samarkand he first suggested, since we had had a big lunch, buying from a convenience store. Then eating in the hotel, or having the hotel call out for pizza (!). When I insisted on something better, he suggested a cafe that was about to close, and finally one restaurant. I consulted Lonely Planet and four of us had an interesting dinner, plus we got to see the Registan illuminated, while the rest of the group was eating pizza (the hotel restaurant was closed that night).
My dated Lonely Planet said the hotel options in Tashkent weren't very good, but listed a couple that sound much better than the Shodlik Palace. By the end of the tour the group was referring to it as the Shoddy Palace, plus it was in a food desert. I will pass the Samarkand hotel, since it was so close to the Registan, but I thought that the B&B scene in Samarkand was supposed to have taken off.
Of course, you can't make everyone happy. One woman complained that we weren't staying in Hyatts, while I wanted smaller places.
> Regarding the presence of “bus” tourists in hotels and
> restaurants, Uzbekistan’s range of options for dining and
> accommodations are quite limited at this juncture. Explorer series
> trips do have more depth in the range of destinations covered
> (including some sites we don’t go to on other MIR trips), and they
> are certainly more adventurous, and we keep the group size smaller,
> capped at 12. That said, we still insist on quality accommodations
> and dining options for our clients, and those being quite limited in
> Uzbekistan - our travelers (and all travelers to Uzbekistan, really)v
> are bound to see other Westerners.
Seeing other westerners is one thing. Being told you are eating in a "house" restaurant and finding said house is set up to serve lunch to 100 people at the same time is another. On the evenings when we were supposed to eat on our own, Abdu did not come up with useful suggestions. In Samarkand he first suggested, since we had had a big lunch, buying from a convenience store. Then eating in the hotel, or having the hotel call out for pizza (!). When I insisted on something better, he suggested a cafe that was about to close, and finally one restaurant. I consulted Lonely Planet and four of us had an interesting dinner, plus we got to see the Registan illuminated, while the rest of the group was eating pizza (the hotel restaurant was closed that night).
My dated Lonely Planet said the hotel options in Tashkent weren't very good, but listed a couple that sound much better than the Shodlik Palace. By the end of the tour the group was referring to it as the Shoddy Palace, plus it was in a food desert. I will pass the Samarkand hotel, since it was so close to the Registan, but I thought that the B&B scene in Samarkand was supposed to have taken off.
Of course, you can't make everyone happy. One woman complained that we weren't staying in Hyatts, while I wanted smaller places.
