jacketwatch

Thank you Kathie. It seems they are making plans on the fly.

annhig

yes, so sorry to hear that this problem is still rumbling on. I'm afraid I suspect that those it was meant to catch have probably long sorted themselves out leaving the ordinary people like your family to suffer.

jacketwatch

You are probably right Ann. Modi the PM wants to shift to electronic banking and more cc use so money is trackable. Great idea but how to implement it in India with such a tradition of cash transactions will be a huge challenge.

My nephew over there told me that if you use a cc issued by an Indian bank and fraud is committed of the card it is the responsibility of the card holder thus making this process even more challenging. Here and I imagine in the UK the card holder is not on the hook for fraud.

julies

This is a really bad situation for local people (I am sorry for your family's situation) and also for those who depend on the tourist economy as their source of income. It is my understanding that tourism is way down in India right now due to the currency situation, meaning that there are no salaries for many of those we worked with and enjoyed meeting on our India trips.

billirandall

I am totally agreed with your words that "People there are in a crisis and all because of extremely poor planning by the govt.Its like sending an army to fight in January in Siberia and not equipping them with winter clothing"..Seriously it is disgusting..

CaliNurse

Jacketwatch, it is awful that your family is going through this. I suppose Modi would say "The end justifies the means" but that's of little comfort when you're living through it.
I hope it improves--for the wonderful people in a country I love, and (selfishly) for me, as I'll be in Gujarat in February. A friend recently returned and said the situation, at least for tourists, was slowly improving. If that is so, I can only hope the improvement will extend to all sectors of society--the people who have to live with this every day.

jacketwatch

Thank you all.

This reminds me of our first trip to India in 1978, our honeymoon. We were in a train from Ajmer to Delhi. It was bumpy and dust was blowing in from an open window. I was clearly uncomfortable and an older Indian woman sitting across looked at me and said "This is India. You just have to take it." It seems somethings just don't change. It's just India.

julies

CaliNurse--

I hope things are improved by February for your trip. There is a thread over on TA that is very current, and tourists who are on the ground in India are telling others not to come because the money situation has not gotten any better.

sartoric

I'm also sorry to hear of your family's plight Jacketwatch.

Hope the situation improves for all people soon, not just because we arrive there in three weeks. Today I found out that my Australian bank no longer buys/sells INR. Also today I talked to a friend who had relatives just returned. They had difficulty accessing cash or using credit cards, apparently because the card payment system is overloaded and unstable. Many merchants that might have previously accepted cards, now insist on cash. Oh dear.

CaliNurse

Julie, what is the thread on T.A.--can you link it here? I'd rather accept and deal with it now than be surprised later. I saw a thread somewhere that said things are improving--no warnings of "not to come"--plus have heard from two recent returnees that it was ok, and had settled down after last month's chaos. Another friend leaves Jan 10 for three weeks in India, and returns just before i leave--too late for me to bail, even if she says it was nightmarish. It seems there 's a lot of variety in tourists' experiences thus far.

Because I book with a travel company, nearly everything--accommodation, driver, guide (necessary in Gujarat) most meals--is pre-paid in advance by credit card. I keep telling myself it will be all right in two months...hmmm.We shall see.

Jacketwatch, the "this is India" line makes me miss India!!! Reminds me of an overnight journey between Ludhiana and Jaipur, in a "first class" compartment, consisting of two bunk beds, four passengers, mice sharing our "suite' and the "Western style" toilet overflowing into the corridor and delays at stations (with chai wallahs awaiting our thirst, thank heaven) and a confused lady in the bunk above mine who had to be dragged out of it by her waiting family who delayed and boarded the train when their Maaji did not appear. Across from me in the train compartment was a wonderful NRI couple who returned from Canada to India to visit family every yr. Whenever one of the above incidents occurred, they'd shrug and smile, "It's India!"

inquest

Interesting read. Pundits predicted doom, the reality is things seem very normal minus liquidity.Perplexed !

http://myvoice.opindia.com/2016/12/d...-reporter-say/

inquest

Obviously, travel/travellers are not on the list of priorities for the government of India. In fact countries should advice their citizens about the existing situations on their official web pages, as they do in the case of other emergencies. There are also many reported cases of international travellers being helped by locals with currency exchange. The situation, I heard, on the ground has eased out considerably. The many friends I've spoken have in fact welcomed this 'drastic' measure taken by the Government.Corruption in India ,as we all knew, had reached dizzying heights, the common man suffered as he had to grease the palms of officials at every stage. It was said that for every Rupees 100 earned, 30% would go as income tax and another 30%-40% would go in bribes.Honest Indians were fed up and helpless.

The raids on politicians and bureaucrats, an unholy nexus, have yielded thousands of crores of rupees in old and new notes,Bankers too are not being spared, for having been hand=in-glove with the above mentioned duo. Today's new has information on per-dawn raids on the house and premises of no less a person than the Chief Secretary of the State of Tamil Nadu.Crores again were confiscated.The Government says that this is just the beginning.

Well, its said that for every good deed done there is some downside (as in the case of Jacketwatch,I would truly sympathize and sincerely hope your SIL has recovered well), which has upset lots of people.Situations it's said is looking up, if so, I truly admire the spirit of the Indians, ever willing to brave the storm, with the customary 'head bobble'..... and as mentioned above...'and this is India'shrug

At the last count ( 2 weeks ago) the total monies collected as declared by the Governor of the Reserve Bank of India was to the tune of Rs 12.5 hundred thousand crores !!!. That's huge.The deadline to surrender and deposit ends on the 30th December, so that figures are expected to rise.The next speculated move by the Government,it is said is dig out undeclared gold and real estate in fictitious names. One could only imagine what it would do to the economy of every penny is pumped back into circulation.

As we increasingly depend on media to provide the latest news, I'm a little sceptical about their affiliations and analytics. Fortunately I have my sources. Dear friends and colleagues and many of them at that, who's opinions I've valued and depended on various issues including travel.

julies

Cali--

Here is the thread I was referring to. It has been updated quite often over the past month, and it is discouraging to hear that things really have not improved that much.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi..._of_Delhi.html


While I was looking for that one, I also ran across these two. These are only travelers and probably have some different options than people who live there, so I can't imagine how difficult it must be for people who live there.


https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...ble-India.html


https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...ote-India.html

jacketwatch

Thanks for the replies. This has developed into a very good discussion. I wish this would happen more here vs. the silly arguments that happen so regularly but thats another matter.

Sartoric the issue you brought up about cc use is so important in that how do you make such a huge leap from a traditionally cash transaction society and culture to electronic transaction?? I have no idea.

Inquest thank you for the links and your insight. Yes the Indian 'head bobble." Thats it in a nutshell. What can you do.

My opinion is that corruption exists on so many levels there from the top as is shown by big pols and businessmen hoarding tons of undeclared money to the porters at the train stations trying to squeeze you for more, the merchants saying just about anything to get the money then saying bye if something goes wrong and an art to lying that is amazing. I have seen it so many times that its too much to list but its palpable. Unfortunately this takes away from the who work hard and are honest.

Cali: Yes this is India!

All I can say is good luck.

annhig

My nephew over there told me that if you use a cc issued by an Indian bank and fraud is committed of the card it is the responsibility of the card holder thus making this process even more challenging. Here and I imagine in the UK the card holder is not on the hook for fraud.>>

you're right, jacket watch. we have the same system here, which was introduced when c/cards first started in order to reassure people that if they lost their card they wouldn't pick up the tab. I can't imagine they would be so popular if that were not the case.

jacketwatch

If the banks in India had to adapt to our system I would imagine they would be having bloody fits.

CaliNurse

Thanks Julie! Forewarned is forearmed! Still, I'm expecting /hoping it won't interfere beyond the standard mantra "It's India!"
.
Here's what I'd read:

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowTopic...dia-India.html

Evidently, different experiences are happening, because the people on this thread, who are in-country, say it hasn't been particularly difficult for them and is not interfering with their enjoyment. The most recent post was a couple days ago.
I will check also with the travel agent who's helped plan the itinerary. The company's staff in India will know what their clients are experiencing, because if there's a problem, they're going to hear about it for sure.

Again, these are only travelers' perspectives. Having to live there and deal with this daily for needs like food, in a mostly cash economy, sounds like old stories of queuing to buy bread in Russia.

inquest

https://youtu.be/WQylRZEeDbE
Here is a lecture, addressed by an eminent chartered accountant and an economist who been active in the Indian political scenario. Loads of number crunching. Over an hour long.He goes on to explain how it can't be Russia or former Yugoslavia(which he coincidentally refers to). It's seems preemptive and deliberate to avoid impending economic disaster looming large over India.Listen in. Domesday druids need to wait.....A little bit longer? A classic western knee jerk. As usual.

inquest

Well,as of yesterday,the limits on cash withdrawals have been complete removed.The Indian economy is sound and robust.The INR to the USD has hit a 16 month high of Rs 65.82.The country has not gone down the drain as predicted by many.Must appreciate the efforts of the Indian think tanks (read economists).A stupendous job of logistics, the secrecy, along with the preparedness required to pull off something like this,considering the sheer numbers/volumes.Hats off!!

Doomsday druids and cynics,wonder what they have to say now.

Kathie

Thanks for the update, inquest.