Southeast Asia Without the Crowds?
Aug 23rd, 2022, 01:22 PM
#41
Aug 23rd, 2022, 10:34 PM
#43
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It will be interesting to here back from someone who has visited Angkor recently. Our last time there was not great purely because of the massive numbers of (mostly Chinese ) tour groups visiting. Those won’t be there at present and fingers crossed for tripplanner that they get there before the veritable tsunami of tour groups are unleashed once China lifts restrictions.
Angkor Wat is of course a "must do" but too enjoyed the smaller quieter sites that we visited with one of our guides. A decent guide that actually LISTENS to what you want and adapts to your requirements is key to making the most of the visit. We had one official guide that simply regurgitated her notes verbatim. I tried and tried to stop her but she was just incapable or unwilling to change her approach. It actually detracted from that visit rather than enhance it.
TP I would invest some time in searching out a decent guide pre arrival!
One alternative to the Angkor Complex is Koh Ker. Ponheary Ly ( of the foundation fame) runs tours there from her guest house ( The Seven Stars? I think) . It is along day or overnight trip but worth it I think for someone with a keen interest in temples and antiquity and probably somewhere I would choose in preference to Tonle Sap
Angkor Wat is of course a "must do" but too enjoyed the smaller quieter sites that we visited with one of our guides. A decent guide that actually LISTENS to what you want and adapts to your requirements is key to making the most of the visit. We had one official guide that simply regurgitated her notes verbatim. I tried and tried to stop her but she was just incapable or unwilling to change her approach. It actually detracted from that visit rather than enhance it.
TP I would invest some time in searching out a decent guide pre arrival!
One alternative to the Angkor Complex is Koh Ker. Ponheary Ly ( of the foundation fame) runs tours there from her guest house ( The Seven Stars? I think) . It is along day or overnight trip but worth it I think for someone with a keen interest in temples and antiquity and probably somewhere I would choose in preference to Tonle Sap
Aug 23rd, 2022, 11:20 PM
#44
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What Crellston said.
It’s the Seven Candles Guesthouse that Ponheary Ly runs.
We stayed there and enjoyed a school run delivering food.
We had a terrific guide in 2016, not sure if he’s still guiding though. Details are in my TR of the time. Let me know if you want me to find out.
It’s the Seven Candles Guesthouse that Ponheary Ly runs.
We stayed there and enjoyed a school run delivering food.
We had a terrific guide in 2016, not sure if he’s still guiding though. Details are in my TR of the time. Let me know if you want me to find out.
Aug 24th, 2022, 06:47 AM
#46
Agree with all on the guide. In BKK on our first trip we had one that came highly recommended on this site that was just awful. As Crellston said, just regurgitated information. It was like being with a computer and no matter what we said or did, he just rambled on.
We had the absence of tour groups in NZ in winter 2020 just as the pandemic began. NZ shut its borders and it was blissfully empty. Hope you have that TP.
We had the absence of tour groups in NZ in winter 2020 just as the pandemic began. NZ shut its borders and it was blissfully empty. Hope you have that TP.
Aug 24th, 2022, 09:29 PM
#47
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Crellston and Sartoric, thank you for your recommendation of Koh Ker and Ponheary Ly.
Yestravel, sounds like you were in NZ shortly after us. NZ and Sydney was our last trip before COVID. I know what you mean about no crowds; this was my experience in Egypt in Nov. 2020 and in Morocco in Dec. 2021, especially when Omicron hit
Yestravel, sounds like you were in NZ shortly after us. NZ and Sydney was our last trip before COVID. I know what you mean about no crowds; this was my experience in Egypt in Nov. 2020 and in Morocco in Dec. 2021, especially when Omicron hit
Aug 25th, 2022, 08:27 AM
#48
Crellston and Sartoric, thank you for your recommendation of Koh Ker and Ponheary Ly.
Yestravel, sounds like you were in NZ shortly after us. NZ and Sydney was our last trip before COVID. I know what you mean about no crowds; this was my experience in Egypt in Nov. 2020 and in Morocco in Dec. 2021, especially when Omicron hit
Yestravel, sounds like you were in NZ shortly after us. NZ and Sydney was our last trip before COVID. I know what you mean about no crowds; this was my experience in Egypt in Nov. 2020 and in Morocco in Dec. 2021, especially when Omicron hit
Sep 10th, 2022, 07:41 PM
#49
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Now that flights have reopened between Cambodia and Laos, we've continued our research on this option. Seems like we could spend a lot of time in Laos, but with less than two weeks, we think it would make sense to concentrate our time in the two areas of most interest: Southern Laos and Luang Prabang.
In southern Laos, we're looking at visiting Champasak, the Bolaven Plateau, and the Four Thousand Islands. We're currently looking at 5 nights based at La Folie Lodge. Does it make sense to stay at one place or are we better off moving around? Does five nights give us a good look of the places mentioned?
For Luang Prabang, we're looking at 4 nights. In addition to the city itself, we're looking at Pak Ou Caves and some of the nearby waterfalls although we will also be able to do that in Southern Laos.
This would leave us with 2 additional nights. Any suggestions on where to go?
Also, I did not realize the flight from Siem Reap to Pakse is only about an hour and change, which made me think about possibly hiring a driver. Has anyone hired a private driver between these two places? Would we be able to do it in one go or would we need to hire a driver to go from Siem Reap to the Cambodia-Laos border and then another one to the Champasak area? If we go by land, would going via the Cambodia-Laos border crossing be preferable or should we go via Ubon Ratchathani in Thailand? Didn't know if one route is more interesting for another, especially if we want to overnight somewhere along the way.
Thank you.
In southern Laos, we're looking at visiting Champasak, the Bolaven Plateau, and the Four Thousand Islands. We're currently looking at 5 nights based at La Folie Lodge. Does it make sense to stay at one place or are we better off moving around? Does five nights give us a good look of the places mentioned?
For Luang Prabang, we're looking at 4 nights. In addition to the city itself, we're looking at Pak Ou Caves and some of the nearby waterfalls although we will also be able to do that in Southern Laos.
This would leave us with 2 additional nights. Any suggestions on where to go?
Also, I did not realize the flight from Siem Reap to Pakse is only about an hour and change, which made me think about possibly hiring a driver. Has anyone hired a private driver between these two places? Would we be able to do it in one go or would we need to hire a driver to go from Siem Reap to the Cambodia-Laos border and then another one to the Champasak area? If we go by land, would going via the Cambodia-Laos border crossing be preferable or should we go via Ubon Ratchathani in Thailand? Didn't know if one route is more interesting for another, especially if we want to overnight somewhere along the way.
Thank you.
Sep 11th, 2022, 12:27 AM
#50
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Oh how I wish I had started blogging before we started travelling in Laos and I would then be able to provide much more pertinent info and suggestions!
Having travelled fairly extensively in Laos over several trips and three decades I have to say I would strongly recommend the north. I would suggest 4 nights in Luang Prabang and now would be a very good time. A window of opportunity before the tourist hordes return. After that’s we spent a 10 -14 days travelling the north exploring the amazing scenery and visiting the hilltribe villages. I can’t recall the exact route we took but it included places like Luang Namtha, Muang Sing, Baan Bountai, Phongsali. There were many other places but their names escape me (if indeed they had names).
Ideally you would need a guide and transport. We have done it by public transport but it does take an inordinate amount of time by bus and boat.
In terms of scenery, and indeed teh minority peoples villages many parts of the south are a lot less interesting. The Bolavens Plateau is arguably the most scenic part but a just a night there somewhere around Tad Lo would suffice. Towns like Champassak and Pakse have little to commend them part from as waypoints to visit other places. Si Phan Don is a fascinating and laid back area which is where I presume the hotel you mentioned is located? We did stick around one of the islands for a few days - I think I’d was Don Khong which was very laid back but not a lot to do. IMHO southern Laos is more about the journey than the destination. In our case we were headed into northern Cambodia.
Sorry if this throws a spanner into teh works of your planing but your did ask!
Having travelled fairly extensively in Laos over several trips and three decades I have to say I would strongly recommend the north. I would suggest 4 nights in Luang Prabang and now would be a very good time. A window of opportunity before the tourist hordes return. After that’s we spent a 10 -14 days travelling the north exploring the amazing scenery and visiting the hilltribe villages. I can’t recall the exact route we took but it included places like Luang Namtha, Muang Sing, Baan Bountai, Phongsali. There were many other places but their names escape me (if indeed they had names).
Ideally you would need a guide and transport. We have done it by public transport but it does take an inordinate amount of time by bus and boat.
In terms of scenery, and indeed teh minority peoples villages many parts of the south are a lot less interesting. The Bolavens Plateau is arguably the most scenic part but a just a night there somewhere around Tad Lo would suffice. Towns like Champassak and Pakse have little to commend them part from as waypoints to visit other places. Si Phan Don is a fascinating and laid back area which is where I presume the hotel you mentioned is located? We did stick around one of the islands for a few days - I think I’d was Don Khong which was very laid back but not a lot to do. IMHO southern Laos is more about the journey than the destination. In our case we were headed into northern Cambodia.
Sorry if this throws a spanner into teh works of your planing but your did ask!
Sep 11th, 2022, 05:30 AM
#51
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Thanks Crellston. Appreciate your thoughtful feedback. The challenge is that aiming for a northern Laos-centered loop will take a lot more time planning with limited available information that I won't have right now, with November right around the corner. We may need to save it for a future visit.
Sep 11th, 2022, 01:58 PM
#52
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Has anyone used any agencies / hired any drivers in Phnom Penh, Siem Reap, Sukhothai, Lampang, or Luang Prabang that they would recommend? I'm looking for day trip drivers as well as longer-distance trips. Thanks.
Sep 12th, 2022, 02:24 AM
#53
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It is easy to hire a tuk tuk and driver by the day in Phnom Penh. Arrange through your accommodation or direct with any of the many drivers you will find in the street. Expect to pay $30 per day but these guys lead very hard lives with all sorts of issues with renting their vehicles and police hassles so be generous with a tip (not something I often say!)
in Siem Reap the going rate for a tuk tuk was again $30 per day, double that for a car and another $30 per day for a guide. Guides vary tremendously and frankly, the best time we have had have been with an English speaking tuk tuk driver. Again, arranging through your accommodation is often the best way to go.
Luang Prabang is easily walkable so you would only need a taxi for visiting Pak Ou etc. plenty of options in the tour operators along main st or via your accommodation.
Can’t help with Sukothai or Lampang as we visited there with a rental car. Though we did rent bikes to explore the ruins around Sukothai. If you are comfortable driving on the left then I would seriously consider renting a car for central Thailand as it would make life a lot easier.
Finally, I wouldn’t discount a Northern Laos loop. Far from being more difficult to arrange , I think it would actually be a lot easier that what you plan for the south. Plenty of tour operators will run a loop tour out of LP on a private basis with car and driver. All you would need to do would be to source an operator let them take care of the rest.
in Siem Reap the going rate for a tuk tuk was again $30 per day, double that for a car and another $30 per day for a guide. Guides vary tremendously and frankly, the best time we have had have been with an English speaking tuk tuk driver. Again, arranging through your accommodation is often the best way to go.
Luang Prabang is easily walkable so you would only need a taxi for visiting Pak Ou etc. plenty of options in the tour operators along main st or via your accommodation.
Can’t help with Sukothai or Lampang as we visited there with a rental car. Though we did rent bikes to explore the ruins around Sukothai. If you are comfortable driving on the left then I would seriously consider renting a car for central Thailand as it would make life a lot easier.
Finally, I wouldn’t discount a Northern Laos loop. Far from being more difficult to arrange , I think it would actually be a lot easier that what you plan for the south. Plenty of tour operators will run a loop tour out of LP on a private basis with car and driver. All you would need to do would be to source an operator let them take care of the rest.
Sep 12th, 2022, 03:57 AM
#54
Agree about a guide for Angkor. I did better without one. Much as I like AC you may be better off with a tuk-tuk than a car, as you won't be coping with continual changes of temperature. Take a fan.
