LancasterLad

>>

Americans like trains and buses too. It's only because you don't use them yourself that you think they aren't good enough for Americans. And it's not just backpackers who use them either.

Train travel is all part of the Thai experience, and is much more memorable than just another boring flight I don't particularly like buses, but in order to get to and from a lot of fantastic, less visited parts of SE Asia there is little choice.

Any way, if the OP is still interested in taking the overnight train from Hualamphong (Bangkok) to Nong Khai, here's a reputable agent who can take care of obtaining the tickets...

http://www.royalexclusive.com/

Also have a look at the link that Mme Perdu posted earlier in the thread. The link contains details about ticket purchase too. Here it is again...

http://www.seat61.com/Laos.htm#Bangkok

LancasterLad

I notice that Kathie intends using trains between London-Paris-Amsterdam next year.
More comfortable than in SE Asia, but the scenery is mainly urban, industrial and drab.

crellston

We visited both Vientienne and Luang Prabang several times over the last 15 or so years and would pretty much agree with Thursdaysd's comments. There are many more tourists travelling all over Asia these days which can overwhelm compact towns like LP completely.

The last time we visited I felt that LP had lost its charm somewhat but not completely and would still be worth a visit for those who haven't been. However, whether that is still the case I dont know but may well find out if, as planned, we return to LP but only as a base for trekking in the Far North.

Planningtravel, you mention in your original post that "a city person, visiting historic and cultural sights are my primarily focus" in which case both places have lot to offer but I do feel that LP has more sights so your thinking of 2 nights I've Vientienne and 3 in LP are about the right balance.

As for getting around Lao, I have travelled from the far south to the far north using planes, buses, boats and cars. Whilst I much prefer using boats or buses were possible and practical as they undoubtedly provide the opportunity to see more of the country, when you only have a limited amount of time flying makes much more sense.

One final thought is that you could explore the possibility of hiring a car and driver / tour to go from Vientienne to LP via an overnight in Vang Vieng. The scenery is worthwhile and a car would be more comfortable and allow the time for some sightseeing. Given the cost of airfares in Laos, I may not be that much more expensive if there is more than one of you travelling.

planningtravel

Thank you all for the feedback and advice.

crellston's post now has me thinking if I should detour to VV enroute from Vientiane to LP. I'd not considered VV, I'd read that it's the place for backpackers to party. I'm interested in Laos' cultural and historic sights. If I can ignore the partying backpackers VV offers natural sights and adventure activities. Am I correct? I'd appreciate input from people who have been to VV.

crellston

Years since I have been but I understand that the illegal drinking places and non stop partying have been curbed by a police crackdown. See http://www.travelfish.org/location/l...ane/vang_vieng for more up to date info.

Vientianeboy

I cannot recommend staying in Nong Khai. The place is a hole. We go there for shopping and that's it. Udon Thani is much better.
Depends when you go. It is awfully hot at the moment and you really need a hotel with a pool. From Nov to Jan don't bother with a pool.
Vang Vieng is great. My family and I travel there for a few days every year. The karst landscapes are really beautiful.

khunwilko

Unless you fly, getting to LP is probably going to involve Vientiane.
I think it would be a shame not to spend at least a couple of nights there.
Being the capital VT is by far the wealthiest part of Lao (NB - some of LP) - it has some interesting temples and a lot of French colonial architecture - and some Sino-Laos governmental monstrosities...

I usually spend at least one evening in one of the French restaurants....... a must do for me as I haven't been to France for decades.......
There are also some "Boulangerie-Patisseries" and good coffee and French bread is readily available.

The National museum is worth a quick visit - unfortunately, grossly underfunded it is in a deplorable state of disrepair, the Laos government seems to spend far more on buildings that show off their latest disastrous efforts at hydro-electricity and river ruining....

The bank of the Mekong - built over with Korean money is good for a stroll in the evening...there are folks doing all sorts of stuff - including a night market. Don't go in the day there is absolutely no shade at all.

Along the river front there are tonnes of restaurants, some dong really nice regional food....if you have never samples "Laab" then now is the time.

with more hotels than you can shake a stick at you won't have a problem with accommodation. - check out the Vientiane Garden, Sihom Rd, behind a backpacker hostel, it has a small pool, good water pressure and includes a passable help yourself breakfast.

Luang Prabang is a UNESCO world heritage site.....the problem with that is the centre of the town takes on a rather antiseptic appearance and it feels as if the whole place is stage-managed for the tourists......it is the same every day....a kind of world heritage groundhog day town....

there are some lovely sights - notable outside the town - but in town the Phousi Mountain is worth the 350+ step trudge to the top.
...and of course a boat ride on the Mekong at sunset.

Vang Vieng is worth a stop - hopefully before they develop both sides of the river - at present there are some good hotels with great panoramic views across the river. There are loads of trip / excursions to do and I never find the back-packer population annoying - I don't think they are, it is those who get annoyed by them that bug me.

However I think if you have time you should certainly include Vientiane......and perhaps next time you could visit some other places and get a better idea of what Laos is really like?

LancasterLad

V.good posting.

VT Is worth it just to see the Arc d'Triomphe look-alike, the Buddha Park sat on the Meekong, a tour round the Beer Lao brewery, and a game of 10 pin bowls.

thursdaysd

Funny, none of those would be on my list of sights. Just shows there's plenty of options in Vientiane.

planningtravel

Interesting comments....

Here's the itinerary I'm thinking of...

Day 1, Overnight train Bangkok - Nong Khai, continue to Vietiane, stay 2 nights.

Day 2, arrive Vientiane, sightseeing in the city

Day 3, Vientiane, sightseeing

Day 4, Mini bus Vientiane to V V, overnight V V (This is mainly to break up the journey between Vientiane and LP). At first I was thinking of flying to LP, but feel like I'll be missing something if I don't see the landscape. After reading about V V, I feel the most interesting thing to me is the scenic setting I have no desire to go tubing or participate in any activities on the river.

Day 5, Mini bus V V to LP. Stay 3 nights.

Day 6 and 7, L P sightseeing.

Day 8, fly to Bangkok.

How does this look? I had thought of spending three nights in Vientiane and two nights in LP, after reading about the two places it sounds like I can avoid tourists in Vientiane and LP is tourist central. I felt an extra day in LP would be wise in case I sightsee at a slower pace due to the crowds at the sights.

How can I buy tickets for the mini bus to travel from Vientiane - V V - LP? My travel dates will not be flexible once I book my LP - BKK flight.

LancasterLad

We didn't know what to expect in V V. But were glad we loitered for 3 nights.

Less = more.

You won't have any problem buying a bus ticket. You'll probably get picked up from your accommodation in Vientiane by van, taken to a central point where you hang around and then join the main bus.

It's a well trodden route, so there's absolutely nothing to fret about.

CaliforniaLady

Well done, planning travel! Your itinerary is well-paced, spicy (meaning varied), and interesting--something I would like to do myself. However, I see one caveat....

I noticed that you are going to take a mini-van from Vientiane to VV, and then VV to LP. Have you personally researched the safety of mini-vans in Laos? When I was in Bangkok, planning a day trip to Ayutthaya, and another to Kanchanaburi, the concierge at the Marriott told me to take a regular bus, because the mini-van drivers drive recklessly and get into accidents. I'm not sure if this is the case in Laos.

If it were me, I would find a VV driver, and have him pick me up in Vientiane, and then take me to VV. The next day, I would have him drive me from VV to LP. That way, he can sleep in his home the night in between. You would be suprised how cheap this can be. The driver doesn't even have to speak much English, you just have to learn to say, "Can we please stop for a restoom?" in Lao. I would write to five hotels in VV, and ask them if they have a driver, and see if anybody bites.

LancasterLad

CaliforniaLady. You can have the best driver in the world, but there'll be plenty of reckless drivers coming in the opposite direction.

Bigger is best, and for safety then a standard VIP bus is the safest.

rje

We were in Laos a few months ago, and loved it. We didn't see tourist crowds anywhere in Luang Prabang, but we were there in mid-October, which is just before prime season. That time of year had wonderful weather. It is true that LP has become a tourist town, but it is a lovely one, and is still well worth visiting, even if only for the beautiful temples and colonial architecture (although there is a lot more than that).

Vang Vieng does have really gorgeous scenery, although it gets even better a bit north, which you'll see on the way to Luang Prabang. We avoided the actual town, which we found ugly. We stayed at Riverside Boutique Resort, which I'd highly recommend. It may be the priciest place in VV, but being Laos, it is relatively inexpensive. It is right on the river, with great views, very comfortable and fresh, and close to, but outside of town. There's a very good and inexpensive restaurant within a 3 minute walk called A.M.D., and also a good French place also quite near called Le Cafe de Paris. You said you're not into activities on the river, but the longtail boat rides are really a great way to see lovely scenery, and are especially beautiful very early in the morning or at sunset. And VV has become much quieter with the departure of most of the bar scene, so we were able to enjoy seeing the local people in a more relaxed atmosphere.

For transport between Vientiane and Luang Prabang, we opted for a private driver, and were happy we did, because we got to stop whenever we wanted, and there were a lot of interesting little villages between Vang Vieng and LP, as well as some spectacular views that we would have missed if we'd taken a bus or mini van. The drive between Vientiane and Vang Vieng is much less interesting, so maybe a mini van would be good for that, saving the expense of a private driver for VV-LP. But if you do hire a driver, don't let him take you on "the new road" between VV-LP. He may try to convince you that it is a flatter and shorter route, but you'll miss the best scenery if you go that way.

In Vientiane, we especially liked Wat Si Muang temple, as it was filled with local people, and not tourists (except for us). It is more of a cultural experience than an art experience, as the temple is not spectacular, but in a quiet way it is wonderful.

planningtravel

Thanks for the valued feedback.

I'd thought the mini van would have been faster than a bus which is why I was going to travel by mini van. I realize that I'm better off taking a bus from Vientiane to VV, and hiring a driver for the trip from VV to LP.

Does anyone know the name of the 'old route' from VV to LP? I'd hate to miss out on the scenery if the driver takes the wrong (ie, new) route.

rje

The route from VV to LP is Route 13. It is not actually thought of as the old route, as it was until quite recently the only route, and the one most people have taken.

I don't even know the name of the new route. Just that it was suggested to us as "easier" (less curvy and flatter) when we were there last October, but we didn't want to miss the better scenery of Route 13.

Route 13 is much easier than it used to be. I remember reading it was not even paved until the 1990s, and before then, the trip took from 24 hours to 3 days!

khunwilko

The new route starts after Vang vieng - It is meant to take less time and has som long but steep climes...it joins route 4. I've only done it at night .........
It would seem a shame to do any of the routes at night as they all pass through some spectacular scenery.

if you minibus driver turns out to be a boy-racer, may I suggest you offer him a tip if he drives more slowly?

planningtravel

Thank you all for the feedback and helpful information you're provided to me. I'm confident I now have the perfect schedule for me and that wouldn't have been possible without the help of people on this forum.

hkumar1

Yes you should definitely visit Vientiane. Its a beautiful place and has an amazing architecture. You must visit, its worth a visit at least once.

Azooki

If I may add, please don't skip Vientiane. It is the city’s center of commerce and it also a refreshingly laid back tourist destination. Ride a bicycle and enjoy a relaxing riverbank break where everything runs slow and just suit yourself to the the ambiance of the city. The wonders of Vientiane will be unfolded as the city is reachable by bicycle. The said experience is a must try in Laos. It is surely an adventure you wouldn’t want to miss.