Safety concerns - Suvarnabhumi Airport Bangkok
Feb 1st, 2007, 05:59 PM
#21
We were in and out of the airport 6 times in the last 2 weeks - not one delay and really good baggage handling success given all our flight changes...........if you know in advance that there's nothing at the gates then you can prepare yourself - all in all we quite liked the airport but obviously they have to fix the problems - fast!
Feb 1st, 2007, 06:43 PM
#22
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In Thai we use a prefix or a word call "Don" for high grounds or elevated grounds - example "Don Muang". We also have another word "Norng" for swamp and the name the area that Suvanrabhumi is built used to be called "Norng Ngu Hoa" or Cobra swamp. The building plans does call for the proper structural support for building the airport on a swamp but the corruption of all concerned with this project (or construction) from the Government to the engineers and construction company caused this disaster.
Feb 1st, 2007, 11:20 PM
#23
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Have just spoken to DH – and reality paints a slightly different picture to the info gleaned from Suvarnabhumi’s ‘real time’ arrival/departure website. Although the SAS flight was only delayed by 15 mins leaving the boarding area, it was held up over an hour on the runway awaiting clearance. So actual departure time was 1hr15mins delayed. The SAS flight actually had tailwind and managed to gain enough time to arrive at Copenhagen just 30 mins late.
Also DH arrived, but his bag did not. It continued on the Qantas flight to London, even tho – as instructed in Sydney – he made a point of showing his baggage tags at the check-in counter in Bangkok to make sure his bags were on the SAS flight. Mmmm – sorta puts the ‘unaccompanied baggage’ security measures in doubt.
But he has a big gripe with SAS – there was a hand-printed notice at the check-in counter that unfortunately, this flight did not have the beds as advertised. Not impressed! He was so looking forward to snoozin’ away the 12 hour flight. He didn’t like the style of the airport, being a kinda old-fashioned dude, as it had too much concrete and steel – and the layout meant what seemed like miles of walking.
He’s now off acquiring clean underwear and toiletries
Jackie
Also DH arrived, but his bag did not. It continued on the Qantas flight to London, even tho – as instructed in Sydney – he made a point of showing his baggage tags at the check-in counter in Bangkok to make sure his bags were on the SAS flight. Mmmm – sorta puts the ‘unaccompanied baggage’ security measures in doubt.
But he has a big gripe with SAS – there was a hand-printed notice at the check-in counter that unfortunately, this flight did not have the beds as advertised. Not impressed! He was so looking forward to snoozin’ away the 12 hour flight. He didn’t like the style of the airport, being a kinda old-fashioned dude, as it had too much concrete and steel – and the layout meant what seemed like miles of walking.
He’s now off acquiring clean underwear and toiletries
Jackie
Feb 2nd, 2007, 04:27 AM
#24
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a report this week in The Times (London) quoted an interview with Sumset Jumsai, one of thailand's leading architects as saying "the airport would have collapsed corruption or not" - " the bottom line is that with or without corruption the runways and any structure not buit a=on piles will be subject to differential settlement and cracks".
as Jackie rightly points out, if they do move domestic flights to Don Muang there will be chaos.
The 3.5 hour layover between my Eva Air flight and my Thai connection to Chaing Rai which I did feel was alittle long, now seems way to short!
Does anyone know how long it takes to get from the old to the new airport? I presume a taxi is to only option.
as Jackie rightly points out, if they do move domestic flights to Don Muang there will be chaos.
The 3.5 hour layover between my Eva Air flight and my Thai connection to Chaing Rai which I did feel was alittle long, now seems way to short!
Does anyone know how long it takes to get from the old to the new airport? I presume a taxi is to only option.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 07:28 PM
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You can't put piles under a runway. They'd punch through the concrete, creating a worse problem. Drive the old highway under the Don Muang Tollway to see what I mean. It's now a roller-coaster.
What they did was pile tones of gravel on top of the ground to force it to settle, and left it for about two years before constructing the runways. The original ground level is now two meters lower than when they started construction (and below sea level, if I remember rightly).
On top of the gravel they laid a layer of more gravel mixed with dry cement. This was a technique pioneered at Kansai, I think. On top of that is the concrete runways, which are essentially rafts, floating on the ground.
Even without corruption and cutting corners, this construction method is fraught with potential problems. An otherwise insignificant crack can allow water to find its way into the gravel layers and wash them away (this happens hundreds of times a year to Bangkok's streets and sidewalks). But there currently isn't a better solution.
What people seem to forget is that Don Muang was itself in an almost constant state of repair, as for that matter, are most airports around the world. It's a fact of life for large complicated structures.
Are things worse than they should be? Probably. Is it as bad as some of the press reports make it out to be? I don't think so. Can it be fixed? Definitely.
What they did was pile tones of gravel on top of the ground to force it to settle, and left it for about two years before constructing the runways. The original ground level is now two meters lower than when they started construction (and below sea level, if I remember rightly).
On top of the gravel they laid a layer of more gravel mixed with dry cement. This was a technique pioneered at Kansai, I think. On top of that is the concrete runways, which are essentially rafts, floating on the ground.
Even without corruption and cutting corners, this construction method is fraught with potential problems. An otherwise insignificant crack can allow water to find its way into the gravel layers and wash them away (this happens hundreds of times a year to Bangkok's streets and sidewalks). But there currently isn't a better solution.
What people seem to forget is that Don Muang was itself in an almost constant state of repair, as for that matter, are most airports around the world. It's a fact of life for large complicated structures.
Are things worse than they should be? Probably. Is it as bad as some of the press reports make it out to be? I don't think so. Can it be fixed? Definitely.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 07:57 PM
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Kansai Airport in Japan has been sinking since the beginning. Like Michael says, the design is far from perfect. In spite of the trouble with Kansai Airport, the same type of design was used to build Centrair.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 08:05 PM
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The designers of the two Japanese airports know that the land will be sinking, and they've put those consideration in the design of the terminal buildings. And I have not read about serious runway cracks in either.
The fact is, the situation at the new BKK is pretty bad; otherwise they wouldn't be trying to reopen Don Muang. It's costing them a lot of money, is highly embarrassing, and hurting tourism and Thai Airways and other airlines. I don't know what else the local press is saying, but the current situation, by all measures, is BAD.
The fact is, the situation at the new BKK is pretty bad; otherwise they wouldn't be trying to reopen Don Muang. It's costing them a lot of money, is highly embarrassing, and hurting tourism and Thai Airways and other airlines. I don't know what else the local press is saying, but the current situation, by all measures, is BAD.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 08:13 PM
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No, I haven't heard about runway cracks, either. But over the years since the opening of KIX, when we first started living in Japan, it was regularly in the news with problems like it was sinking and "settling" faster and more than they had anticipated.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 08:47 PM
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BTW, I'm sure anything can be fixed. But do the Thais have the resolve to get it done in a timely matter? Remember Suvarnabhumi had been planned for over 30 years, and suffered repeated delays.
While other new airports have suffered embarrassing setbacks in recent years like DEN, HKG and KUL, those problems are indeed fixed in weeks. But BKK's problem seem to be in a different league.
And running two airports for extended time will really hurt Bangkok, Thailand, and its airlines. A couple of examples are Montreal and Glasgow.
Another case is Tokyo Narita. Because of local opposition to expansion, it only had one runway until recently. In my opinion, that had hurt the traveling Japanese as well as the JAL and ANA for a long long time. Even today, there's poor air connections to most cities in Japan from NRT. And NRT's passenger count is still only about half of HND. If it hasn't had it problems, the story might be quite different.
The new BKK is supposed to help it fight other regional hubs like SIN and KUL for dominance. But the ongoing problem probably mean that opportunity is lost.
While other new airports have suffered embarrassing setbacks in recent years like DEN, HKG and KUL, those problems are indeed fixed in weeks. But BKK's problem seem to be in a different league.
And running two airports for extended time will really hurt Bangkok, Thailand, and its airlines. A couple of examples are Montreal and Glasgow.
Another case is Tokyo Narita. Because of local opposition to expansion, it only had one runway until recently. In my opinion, that had hurt the traveling Japanese as well as the JAL and ANA for a long long time. Even today, there's poor air connections to most cities in Japan from NRT. And NRT's passenger count is still only about half of HND. If it hasn't had it problems, the story might be quite different.
The new BKK is supposed to help it fight other regional hubs like SIN and KUL for dominance. But the ongoing problem probably mean that opportunity is lost.
Feb 3rd, 2007, 08:13 AM
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Hi KimJapan...Miss talking with you 
Well, there's no doubt that Bangkok is situated in a bona-fide delta, so its not surprising to hear about planes getting their wheels stuck. You'd think since the Thai culture is so hell-bent on saving face they would have internal safetys to prevent anything from causing them too great a loss of face.
Well, there's no doubt that Bangkok is situated in a bona-fide delta, so its not surprising to hear about planes getting their wheels stuck. You'd think since the Thai culture is so hell-bent on saving face they would have internal safetys to prevent anything from causing them too great a loss of face.
Feb 6th, 2007, 05:43 AM
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Travelling in April... not too worried, maybe slightly.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapc....ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapc....ap/index.html
Feb 6th, 2007, 09:51 PM
#32
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Ok, I’ve figured it out 
Saw that my ‘thank you’ response to rhkkmk of 27Jan had also been pulled – it contained excerpts from a news.com article “Pilots Fear for Safety at Thai Airport.”
Now realise removing these two posts has nothing to do with the subject matter or censorship – but the fact that I’ve used direct quotes from the newspaper articles that were too long! Should have paid more attention to Fodor’s posting guide and the norti-norti of cut-n-pasting.
So, as I’ve just reposted the exact same message five hours after the first, this one may also catch the eye of a roving editor and be removed as well – my apologies, Eds! (grovel, grovel)
Here’s the edited version Mark III
Author: FurryTiles
Date: 02/06/2007, 05:39 pm
From today’s media releases, it looks like the Thai Cabinet has over-ridden AoT’s authority. In the last week, there has been the immediately-effective ‘resignation’ of the Airport chief Chotisak Asapaviriya, and the sacking of the Airport’s general manager Somchai Sawasdeepon, plus reports of “sub-standard sand” and other materials being used in the runway construction.
The indication has been that Don Muang would re-open for “non-connecting” domestic flights – but now it’s reported in the Bangkok Post that the government has decided to re-open Don Muang for International flights as well as domestic, tentatively effective within 45 days. .... http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/07Feb2007_news03.php
... and the Sydney Morning Herald reports the accelerated decisions shows how concerned the Thai govt is with the problems at Suvarnabhumi and that the decision to re-open Don Muang as a second Bangkok International Airport took many by surprise.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/ban...524096466.html
What a dilemma – the future of Suvarnabhumi is rapidly crumbling at the edges, and the thought of Bangkok traffic runs from one ‘international’ airport to the other will impact so negatively on the tourist industry. Poor Thailand. :'(
Jackie
Saw that my ‘thank you’ response to rhkkmk of 27Jan had also been pulled – it contained excerpts from a news.com article “Pilots Fear for Safety at Thai Airport.”
Now realise removing these two posts has nothing to do with the subject matter or censorship – but the fact that I’ve used direct quotes from the newspaper articles that were too long! Should have paid more attention to Fodor’s posting guide and the norti-norti of cut-n-pasting.
So, as I’ve just reposted the exact same message five hours after the first, this one may also catch the eye of a roving editor and be removed as well – my apologies, Eds! (grovel, grovel)
Here’s the edited version Mark III
Author: FurryTiles
Date: 02/06/2007, 05:39 pm
From today’s media releases, it looks like the Thai Cabinet has over-ridden AoT’s authority. In the last week, there has been the immediately-effective ‘resignation’ of the Airport chief Chotisak Asapaviriya, and the sacking of the Airport’s general manager Somchai Sawasdeepon, plus reports of “sub-standard sand” and other materials being used in the runway construction.
The indication has been that Don Muang would re-open for “non-connecting” domestic flights – but now it’s reported in the Bangkok Post that the government has decided to re-open Don Muang for International flights as well as domestic, tentatively effective within 45 days. .... http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/07Feb2007_news03.php
... and the Sydney Morning Herald reports the accelerated decisions shows how concerned the Thai govt is with the problems at Suvarnabhumi and that the decision to re-open Don Muang as a second Bangkok International Airport took many by surprise.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/ban...524096466.html
What a dilemma – the future of Suvarnabhumi is rapidly crumbling at the edges, and the thought of Bangkok traffic runs from one ‘international’ airport to the other will impact so negatively on the tourist industry. Poor Thailand. :'(
Jackie
Feb 10th, 2007, 10:46 AM
#34
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I am going to be coming in late at night in April on Bangkok Air and leaving early in the morning to Chaing Mai...so my issue would be.. should I make reservations for the hotel at the new airport....the Novotel....maybe I'll wait...
Feb 10th, 2007, 01:30 PM
#35
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Hi hypatia, hopefully by April the two-airport situation will be sorted - the indication is Don Muang will be operational for both domestic and international flights by the end of this month. But, probably wisest to wait and see how the airport dilemma unfolds. When I checked the Novotel vacancy rates, there were plenty of rooms available and you should be able to get a room without any reservation, once you are on the ground.
But where on the ground is still up in the air (pardon the pun) as there is now talk of closing Suvarnabhumi entirely, according to a <i>Bangkok Post</i> news article ‘Decision on Airport Fate coming Soon’ ... “Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the decision whether trouble-plagued Suvarnabhumi airport will be closed entirely during repairs will be made on Wednesday.” http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/11Feb2007_news01.php
Am checking news updates daily as DH will be returning COP-BKK with direct connection BKK-SYD on 20Feb – and details of the severity of the runway/airport problems have sadly only escalated since his outward journey on 1Feb. :-<
Jackie
But where on the ground is still up in the air (pardon the pun) as there is now talk of closing Suvarnabhumi entirely, according to a <i>Bangkok Post</i> news article ‘Decision on Airport Fate coming Soon’ ... “Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the decision whether trouble-plagued Suvarnabhumi airport will be closed entirely during repairs will be made on Wednesday.” http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/11Feb2007_news01.php
Am checking news updates daily as DH will be returning COP-BKK with direct connection BKK-SYD on 20Feb – and details of the severity of the runway/airport problems have sadly only escalated since his outward journey on 1Feb. :-<
Jackie
Feb 10th, 2007, 03:45 PM
#36
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Also, a heads-up for those arriving/departing Suvarnabhumi in the meantime, a LoS version of “mind the gap” ....
From yesterday’s <i>The Nation</i> where architect Yodyiem Theptaranon, recently appointed to the Board of Directors of AOT, warned there were a lot of concerns at the passenger terminal too. He cited “the example of the 27 revolving doors, 17 of which have broken glass. It was also found that the glass was not tempered or laminated to protect passengers from getting injured.”
So will advise DH to Mind the Revolvers,
From yesterday’s <i>The Nation</i> where architect Yodyiem Theptaranon, recently appointed to the Board of Directors of AOT, warned there were a lot of concerns at the passenger terminal too. He cited “the example of the 27 revolving doors, 17 of which have broken glass. It was also found that the glass was not tempered or laminated to protect passengers from getting injured.”
So will advise DH to Mind the Revolvers,
Feb 11th, 2007, 07:01 PM
#37
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I've practically given up trying to figure out what's going to happen. One day you read "it's not as bad as we thought" then next day it's "new airport to be closed."
And every time cabinent considers the matter, instead of a real decision, we just get the water muddied even more.
And every time cabinent considers the matter, instead of a real decision, we just get the water muddied even more.
Feb 12th, 2007, 02:10 AM
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My wife and I flew into Bangkok from Phuket on Saturday afternoon and departed Bangkok early Sunday morning for Chicago after spending the night at the airport Novotel hotel. While I have no doubt that any number of issues are worthy of further investigation, our personal experience was nothing but entirely pleasant.
Feb 12th, 2007, 04:33 AM
#39
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Thank you jmf314159...makes those of us traveling through this airport in the near future feel much better.
I personally don't have any safety concerns but the thought of missing connections and/or having to change airports midstream during an already tightly packed vacation is not pleasant.
I personally don't have any safety concerns but the thought of missing connections and/or having to change airports midstream during an already tightly packed vacation is not pleasant.
Feb 13th, 2007, 03:56 PM
#40
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So good to hear, jmf.
According to this morning’s update (Happy Valentines all
)in the <i>Bangkok Post</i> “Partial Closing of New Airport Confirmed” http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/14Feb2007_news09.php it seems that Thai AirAsia, Nok Air and other lo-budget airlines may return to Don Muang when it re-opens as Bangkok’s second international airport. At a cabinet meeting later today, the Minister for Transport (Adm. Theera) is expected to table a “complete plan for the flights being shifted back”
But as MichaelBKK indicated, various media reports are directly contradictory and confusion appears to reign on all fronts. Most authorities however, do mention that all the changes involving both airports should be in place to cope with the visitor influx of Songkran celebrations in mid-April.
According to this morning’s update (Happy Valentines all
)in the <i>Bangkok Post</i> “Partial Closing of New Airport Confirmed” http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/14Feb2007_news09.php it seems that Thai AirAsia, Nok Air and other lo-budget airlines may return to Don Muang when it re-opens as Bangkok’s second international airport. At a cabinet meeting later today, the Minister for Transport (Adm. Theera) is expected to table a “complete plan for the flights being shifted back” But as MichaelBKK indicated, various media reports are directly contradictory and confusion appears to reign on all fronts. Most authorities however, do mention that all the changes involving both airports should be in place to cope with the visitor influx of Songkran celebrations in mid-April.
