Ah, thanks someotherguy - I didn't run into that back in 2010, but I guess I was never there during the day!

On the weather, I usually defer to HT as he's definitely guru on all things meteo! But I will mention that for our 8 night Kyushu visit end of October into beginning of November 2013, the weather was warm and sunny but not hot and sticky. It was lovely weather actually.

For an affordable ryokan: If you are willing to go to Miyajima (which I loved!), look into the Momiji-so
https://japaneseguesthouses.com/ryok...yokan=Momijiso

For an extraordinary French Kaiseki meal (with real wine ) in Kyoto, consider Misogui:
http://www.misogui.jp/eng/

I spent 2 nights in Nara and was glad I did. Whatever you decide, you will at least have a nice amount of time for the combination of Nara and Kyoto. While in Nara, consider making a side trip to Ikaruga for Horyuji and Chuguji – awesome! And, of course, Uji and Byodoin…. When I was there, back in 2006, my B&B in Nara was the Little Hotel Nara Club, which was a great find IMO – affordable, great breakfasts, lovely hosts, reasonably well located, but perhaps a bit further from the heart of Nara than you might prefer. I’m not sure how it has fared in the meantime, but you might look into it.

I chose to stay in Kurashiki as my base for many of the places you plan to visit from Okayama. It’s quite close, and might be worth considering. I loved walking around the canals of Kurashiki after dark and in the early morning! BTW, I was disappointed with Koraku-en; I hope your experience is more psitive.

@ Kathie & Cheryl – OMG! Please take care of yourselves!

Thanks kja.

I found all the Japanese gardens I visited highly artificial, but I enjoyed then anyway. Do you remember what you didn't like about Koraku-en?

I made a decision not to visit Hiroshima and Miyajima. Can't see everything!

My recollection of Koraku-en is that it had a lot of lawn and very little that was in bloom. Maybe it was because of when I was there (in May), or maybe I just didn't visit the right parts of it.

To my untrained eye, Koraku-en looks like an English park rather than a Japanese garden. OTOH it does have the Black Castle looming there, though that is a (rather obvious) concrete reconstruction.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think Korakuen is beautiful and the castle is worth a visit.

The Korakuen website has good info. There is an intro video linked on the homepage. If that interests you then you can find all of the segments here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ9...h1sCsK_JCga5yg

Sure it is artificial and that is sorta the point of a scenic garden, isn't it? It was designed and is maintained to feature natural beauty.

The homepage is here: http://www.okayama-korakuen.jp/english/

OK, here is the revised itinerary. Note that all the hotels can be cancelled up to some reasonable date on or near my arrival.

<b>Kyoto</b> - 5 nights.
El Inn, south side of Kyoto Station. I looked at changing this, but the Toyoko Inn recommended above isn't available for my dates on booking.com, and it's too early to book on the Toyoko Inn website (unless someone can tell me how to get a Toyoko Inn card from outside the country). The best alternative, the Mitsui Garden, is over $200 more and I'd rather spend the money on food.

<b>Nara</b> - 2 nights.
Toyoko Inn Kintetsu Nara Ekimae - right by the station.

<b>Okayama</b> - 4 nights
Mitsui Garden Hotel

<b>Kurashiki</b> - 1 night.
Kurashiki Kokusai Hotel. I have a request in through the Japanese Guest Houses site for Ryokan Kurashiki.

<b>Matsue</b> - 4 nights.
Dormy Inn Express

<b>Yamaguchi</b> - 3 nights
Green Rich Hotel Yuda Onsen. Severe shortage of hotels on booking.com - just two in Yamaguchi and Yuda Onsen! Nothing on Japanese Guest Houses either.

I will revisit these when I'm only three months out.

I haven't done the math yet, but I suspect I am moving too slowly for a JR Pass to be worthwhile. Maybe some kind of Kansai area pass? Is there a public transport pass for Kyoto?

First look at getting to Matsuyama from Yamaguchi on HyperDia has me going back to Okayama - has to be a better way!

I stayed at the Kurashiki Kokusai many years ago, and it worked for me. If possible, get a room overlooking the gardens of the Ohara.

I'm sure you know that the station in Nara is a bit away from Nara's major sites. Shouldn't be a problem -- just making sure you take that into consideration.

Thanks kja, but it's the Kintetsu station, which seems to be a bi closer.

Sorry, thursdaysd -- I obviously missed that!

Yamaguchi: I've not been there, but my guide book rates the old town very highly

Yamaguchi to Matsuyama: take a ferry. I've taken the one from Kure (which is where they built the Yamato, there's a museum right by the dock). Or take a bus over the Shimanami Kaido. If you do that, break your trip at Oyamazumi Taisha on Omishima. This is not only a very beautiful and significant shrine, but it has nearly all (80%) of the NT armor and weaponry in Japan, including that of a famous female warrior whose name escapes me at the moment: she led her clan to victory, then leaped overboard when she learned her betrothed had been killed in the battle.

Green Rich hotels: they are an OK chain, but when trying to spot one from a distance know that they write the G backwards, Toys R Us style. Sounds trivial, but had me stumped for a while. They have both Japanese and Western rooms: the Japanese ones have no desk or chair.

Kurashiki Kokusai Hotel: I too stayed there many years ago. The room was OK but breakfast was a mayhem of tour groups--all Japanese despite the name. It's very convenient for the canal district, which also gets pretty crowded. So I'd recommend skipping breakfast at the hotel and getting out early.

Unless you have a specific list of must-see sights in Kyoto, I'd be inclined to switch the number of days there vs. Nara.

Thanks, someotherguy!

I'm using Yamaguchi as a base for day trips to Hagi and Tsuwano, but sounds like I should reserve some time for the town itself. Not to mention the baths at Yuda Onsen.

Thanks for the warning about the letter "G"! I have a standard double reserved, as best I can tell that's supposed to have a double bed.

Good, I was thinking there ought to be a ferry. I often get bored on boats, but this should be a short enough trip with plenty to look at. Thanks for the Omishima suggestion, but I have really given up on museums of lethal weapons, and I have a hard time properly appreciating samurai armor, it looks so complicated and not very protective.

Hmm, I prefer not to stay at hotels patronized by tour groups, let's hope I get to stay at the ryokan.

I plan on using one of the Kyoto days for Arashiyama, but will review the list to see if it really needs three days. Interesting, so many people recommend a lot of time for Kyoto, but it does seem that it is going to be crowded, and there is plenty to see in and around Nara.

The Kure to Takahama ferry takes 2 hours and costs about $25. There's a coordinated bus/train transfer to Matsuyama. There are other, faster "jet" ferries from other ports but I don't know the details.

Samurai armor can be appreciated as art. This spectacular exhibition at LACMA featured items that were almost entirely Edo-period, when armor served no practical purpose: http://www.lacma.org/samurai#landing

There are undoubtedly fine sights in Kyoto, but the top ones are so crowded you could find them unpleasant. Once you drop below the Top 10 (actually, I would say the top 5 or 6), then you are talking about sights that have peers elsewhere. If you've been to Kyoto previously, you've presumably seen Kiyomizudera etc., and I would argue that the sights of Nara are at least as good as the next tier, and the town is a lot more pleasant.

Here are some statistics on tourist numbers: http://www.tourism.jp/en/statistics/inbound/

Many who visit Nara don't get beyond the deer park. There's more to it than that. Here's a copy of something from 2010:

IMO the top sights of Nara are the ancient temple complexes just outside the town. Horyu-ji has the oldest wooden buildings in the world (7th century), Toshodai-ji has the "supreme example of Nara temple architecture" (the kondo) and the only example of Nara palace architecture (the kodo), while Yakushi-ji's pagoda is from 730. You can do a circuit of these three in a day.

Similarly, although the hall of the Great Buddha is the obvious focus at Todai-ji (the largest wooden building in the world, though only 2/3 the size of the original), don't overlook the outlying temples up the hill--the picturesque nigatsudo (on stilts) and the sangatsudo, which dates to around 850 and houses magnificent statues (no photos allowed). The neighboring Tamukeyama Hachimangu shrine is picturesque, too. There's a road of restaurants and souvenir shops just past this.

By the deer park is the Kasuga Grand Shrine, which is attractive (especially in the fall and spring). On weekends there'll be lots of families with kids in traditional dress doing ni-san-go ceremonies there. Also the Kofuku-ji which has many ancient halls and statues and 3- and 5-story pagodas; there's a classic view of the 5-story pagoda from the nearby Sarusawa-ike pond.

There's another pond (Sagi-ike) with nice views on the way to Shin Yakushi-ji. This temple may not look that interesting from the outside (though it dates back to the 8th century), but it houses really spectacular statues (again, no photos allowed).

There are more fine statues and othter great art in the national museum.

Download the Nara Walks leaflet from the JNTO site for practical information: http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html

The Super Jet ferry to Matsuyama departs from Hiroshima and stops in Kure. It is quicker than the boat that someotherguy took but also more expensive.

Timetable and fares are here:
http://setonaikaikisen.co.jp/language/en/superjet/

<b>Kyoto</b>

My first trip to Kyoto I visited (aside from the station and a hospital): Nijo Castle (interesting), Nijo Textile Center (seemed to me mostly a shopping op), Koto-in, in the Daitoku-ji complex (delightful), Eikan-do (ditto), Ginkaku-ji (disappointing and crowded) and a moon viewing ceremony at Daikaku-ji (wonderful).

This trip I was considering some of:
-- Arashiyama - day trip? half day trip?
-- Philosopher's Path
-- Museums: National, Traditional Crafts, Costume, Raku
-- Temples: Kinkaku-ji, Daitoku-ji, Myoshin-ji, Byodo-in, Kiyomizu-dera
-- Neighborhoods: Gion, Sannen-zaka and Ninen-zaka

I arrive in Kyoto the evening of the 11th. Seems that if I left late afternoon on the 15th that would give me nearly four days for Kyoto and two full days for Nara. Wonder if I can find a ryokan for one night in Nara? Since it's a Saturday, maybe not (Japanese Guest House site told me zero availability in Kurashiki on the 22nd).

<b>Ferry</b>

The JNTO website mentions a slow ferry from Hiroshima to Matsuyama which is cheaper and perhaps provides better views? Am also considering a ferry from Matsuyama to Kitakyushu. or possibly Yawatahama to Usuki or Beppu (plan to skip Beppu but maybe visit Yufuin).

Sounds like a nice list for Kyoto if, perhaps, a tad ambitious!

As for Arashiyama, there's plenty to see to justify a full day trip, but you can also make it a half-day if that suits you better. I was very glad that I included Okochi Sanso Villa in my time there:
http://www.insidekyoto.com/okochi-sa...lla-arashiyama

I'm sure you know that Byodo-in is in Uji, between Kyoto and Nara, and that there is luggage storage at the train station there -- or at least there was!

I trust your decision to leave Fushimi Inari out is a knowing one, not an oversight?

I agree with someotherguy's comments on Nara, but would add a special commendation for the Miroku Bosatsu of Chugu-ji. You might also want to consider visiting Kasuga Taisha in Nara itself, particularly if you can walk the lantern-lined path at dawn or dusk.

Fushimi Inari was the absolute highlight of my trip to Kyoto and one of my top 5 sights on my first trip to Japan. The fact that Insaw it in a very light rain only added to the mysticism of it. As you are staying south of Kyoto station, you are much closer to it than many of the other top sights, especially Kinkaku-hi (also wonderful for the pavilion itself but the rest of the grounds didn't do that much for me). IMHO, missing Fushimi Inari would be a true shame.

So I could see Byodo-in on the way to Nara? I'm not in general in favor of breaking travel like that, but then it's not all that far to Nara.

I was leaving Fushimi Inari out on purpose, but am willing to reconsider.

Lantern-lined paths sound nice, but my night vision may not be up to it. All lights get haloes, but it might work if they're not too bright.

BTW, on my first trip I really enjoyed okonomiyaki in Kanazawa (in Tokyo it was a bit runny) and I can't find it in Japanese restaurants here. Any recommendations?