Craig

You can look up sunrise and sunset here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunrise.html

I would book an extra day at your hotel rather than risk waiting around to check in after the train arrives. Let the hotel know of your (very) late arrival time, though.

sartoric

When we got back to our Hanoi hotel after Sapa, I was surprised to see steel shutters pulled down over the entrance. Hadn't realised they existed !

We sat on the steps for 20 minutes or so, then noticed a buzzer, and pushed it. Two minutes later the shutters rolled up, the night manager rolled away his camp bed, and then started moving the six or seven motorbikes parked in the foyer !

This was a great family run small hotel in the old quarter. Let me know if you want the name, I'd have to dig it out of the archives, but happy to do so.

Suzanna

Thanks, Craig for the smart sunrise site. In November and December the sunrise is around 6:15-6:35, so that will work out well. Good suggestion re. reserving a hotel for the early return day from Sapa.

As I was doing searching for info around Sapa I came across this description for Sapa, in Wikipedia: " Sa Pa is notable as a hill resort, a market town for timber and sex trade and known as the "queen of mountains"". I do not know how accurate this might be, but I only knew about the mountains, the rice fields, the hill tribes and the market...

Thanks for the offer sartorial, if finding the small hotel in Hanoi that you liked is not too much trouble, I'd appreciate it.

I do not know if the next topic belongs here, but it is part of my planned trip.

Two festivals are listed in December in LP: Kin Chiang (Hmong New Year) and Boun pot Py (Khmu New Year). I could not find anywhere the dates for December 2015. Does anyone know when they will be celebrated in Dec 2015 and how many days each lasts?

Suzanna

I saw some comments re. Victoria Hotel in Sapa being far away from the center of the city and as a result (while very nice), somewhat inconvenient. What distances are we talking about? Is it safe to walk at night from the center to this hotel or generally in the city?

sartoric

It was Hanoi Old Quarter Hotel (original ha) that we stayed at, but this is back in Oct 2009, I'd check current reviews.
We really enjoyed the Museum of Ethnology while in Hanoi, and of course wandering in the old quarter.

In Sapa we stayed at Holiday View Hotel, very central to town with stunning views.

Thanks for encouraging me to dig out this file from 5 years ago, a trip down memory lane for sure !

Happy planning !

Craig

As I recall, the Victoria is located up a hill, but not from the center of the town. Sapa is not really a city - it is fairly compact and easy to get around. It should be quite safe to walk at night.

Kathie

Suzanna, the dates for the new years celebrations in LP will be difficult to locate this far in advance. The days are dependent on moon phases. We were there during Hmong New year many years ago and visited a local Hmong village. That was in 2002, before LP became firmly established on the tourist map.

Suzanna

Thanks for digging out the name of the hotel which you liked in Hanoi, sartoric. I will look it up. I appreciate the follow-ups, Craig & Kathie.

I would love to have suggestions based on your experiences for hotels in Hong Kong, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai or near the Thai/Laos border (1 night before the cruise), Luang Prabang, Hanoi and Sapa. Everyone's taste, expectations and budget being different, here is what I am looking for: equivalent for what one finds usually at 3-3.5 AAA star hotels/motels in the USA, in a safe, relatively "central" location which means: clean, quiet, comfortable, with good A/C (to ensure a good night sleep) and private bathroom with hot water, ideally w. breakfast included and a safe in the room. We are not looking for luxury but we would like to find a comfortable place. If cold is to be expected at night, it would be nice to have heat for the bathroom. I do not know if this is too much to expect in the above locations for under $100/night for two people.

Kathie

Hong Kong will be the place that blows your budget. Hotels there are very expensive. The only suggestion I have to offer there is the Salisbury YWCA... quality is about like old Holiday Inns in the US. It will still be over $100 a night.

Chiang Mai take a look at Baan Orapin, family owned, well-located.

It's been too long since I was last in LP - we stayed at La Residence Phou Vao for about $120 a night - I hear it's over $400 a night now.

Have a great trip!

sartoric

Not sure about HK, but you should have no problem finding very good rooms with your budget in the other locations.

In Chiang Rai we stayed at Le Patta, it's new, opened in Jan 2014, great location about a block from the main street, and the night market is just around the corner. You can get fantastic seafood hotpot at the night market for a few dollars. If you're interested in cooking, check out "Cook Thai Yourself" run by an energetic Thai lady named Tik. We spent a day with her, not only enjoying the markets, the food and her garden, but also her philosophy and take on life.

In Chiang Khong (pre Luang Say cruise) we stayed at the Riverside Hotel, basic rooms, but with a small balcony and views of the Mekong. The Teak Garden Guesthouse is supposed to be good.

In Luang Prabang we stayed at Apsara Hotel, beautiful spot, with lovely large rooms and great food.

I used lots of reports on this site when planning, in particular the reports from Yestravel and Progol were really helpful.

Suzanna

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately I missed the occasion to stay at La Residence Phou Vao. The lowest rate for 4 nights in November is $3,500. They include taxes, fees and breakfast... Le Patta in Chiang Rai seems to be a good (not cheap) place as long as one can get a quiet room. I am looking up the rest of the suggested places. Sartoric, vietnamonline (one of the websites you suggested) is an informative resource.

Kathie

Yipes! La Residence Phou Vao is even more expensive than when I last checked on it!!

crellston

In LP I would second sartorics suggestion of the Apsara great location, nice rooms and reasonable rates ( I think they have now opened a second venue further away from the centre). We also stayed at Villa Santi years ago, very central but unless it has improved I would avoid it!

Also stayed The 3 Nagas which is in a superb location and a lovely place to stay, but I think rates have rocketed since it was taken over.

We have stayed in quite a few places in Chiang Mai over the years but one of the best was 3 Sis http://the3sis.com great location on the edge of the old town, nice spacious rooms and lots of god restaurants close by. A great wat just across the road. Great value.

Suzanna

Thanks, I will check them out.

Someone told me that it doesn't have to be Sunday for the market in Chiang Mai, that every day there is a market and it doesn't make a difference if one catches the one on Sunday or not. What I have been reading keeps talking about the Sunday market as a special experience. Could you clarify?

crellston

very Sundays there is a "walkingk street" market along Rachadamnoen Road when the street ( and a few others now!) are closed to cars. It is sometimes also referred to as teh weeken market but, as we went on a Sunday, I am not sure whether it is actually open on a Friday or Saturday. When we went it as VERY busy, jam packed with local people and tourists. The quality of the handicrafts seemed much higher than in the night bazaar which is more than a little tack but does operate every night.

There is also a Saturday market on Wualai Road which is smaller but apparently has some of the same vendors as the Sunday market.

There was a lot of street entertainment going on in the Sunday market from Ladyboys to minority music. The courtyards of some of the temple were turned into makeshift food courts serving up some great food.

I would say go on a Sunday if you can. It is, as you say, a very special experience.

sartoric

Last visit, we only went to the Sunday night market in CM, so can't compare to the regular night market.

However, in Chiang Rai we visited both the regular night market and the Saturday night walking street market. There was a huge difference in the number of stalls, about a kilometre of road closed for the special once a week Saturday night extravaganza. Great food and handicrafts.

Perhaps similar in CM ? Who knows, but I will be there again in about 6 weeks, likely to check out the regular markets this time, I'll let you know.

Suzanna

Thanks. Plan version #1 has 5 nights in Chiang Mai (assumed arrival on the first day at around 10 am) and 4 nights in Hanoi (not including nights on the Halong Bay cruise and train to Sapa). Somehow it seems to be too much for Chiang Mai. Would you add another day to Chiang Rai (where I would sleep before the Luang Say cruise) or to Hanoi? Is even 4 days too much for Chiang Mai for someone not into hiking?

sartoric

How many nights are currently planned for Chiang Rai ? We had four or five nights there last Feb, really enjoyed it. You do realise it will be a very early start to get to CK from CR for your Luang Say cruise. It's about 90 mins by car from CR to CK - going by memory here, so could be wrong.

I can't really advise whether to cut CM for more time in Hanoi, we had two weeks in Hanoi.

I can easily spend four nights in CM, not really a hiker either.

Perhaps have a think about what sights/ activities you want to enjoy in each place, then plot it out on a calendar and see how it fits together.

Let us know how you get on.

Suzanna

Thanks, Sartoric. Right now I would leave in the morning from Chiang Mai for Chiang Rai and spend there 1 night before the trip to the border for the cruise. Obviously that's very little for Chiang Rai but I am running out of days.... We cannot spend 2 weeks in just Hanoii...

About how much should I plan to spend on a day tour with a good, English speaking guide and a van just for the two of us in Chiang Mai, Luang Prbang and Hanoi?

sartoric

I haven't used a guide in the places you list, but in Chiang Rai we paid about $50 or $60 for a great guide for the day, which included a fantastic lunch cooked by his wife while we floated down a river on a bamboo raft.

I don't think you need a guide in Luang Prabang, it is compact and easily walkable with a guide book for reference. You will have seen two villages and a cave while on the Luang Say,

Chiang Mai is also compact and easily walked, the Nancy Chandler maps are recommended by many on this board (although not drawn to scale). There are hundreds of travel agents in CM who will customise whatever you want for excursions out of town.

In Hanoi we found a guy on the street we liked, he organised to take us by taxi to his village, his wife cooked lunch, and we visited a ceramics village on the way. I paid about $15 for the taxi, and gave him $40 for his daughters education - he didn't want any payment. I'm not suggesting you do this, but rather trying to point out that once on the ground, you will find arranging day trips and city exploration very easy and far cheaper than booking in advance. Many on this forum recommend walking tours with Hanoi Kids, check them out.

Have you read the reports by Progol and Yestravel ? I think I mentioned them up thread, great advice for Northern Thailand and Laos.