NeoPatrick

I'm doing a pretty extensive trip to China and Southeast Asia in August to October. On my one world pass I can go from Shanghai to Osaka and then from Osaka to Beijiing, so I'm thinking of taking advantage of that opportunity. I'd arrive at KIX at 1 pm and my flight out would preferably be at 9:50 AM. I'm thinking 5 or possibly 6 nights total. I've only been to Tokyo in Japan. This segment would be in mid August, by the way.

I don't shop, I'll be traveling alone -- older single guy, and I'm not looking to spend a fortune but like pretty decent things. I get "templed out" and "museumed out" very easily. A little of that goes a long way, but I like seeing as much as possible, particularly beautiful scenery.

How would you do this? I'm thinking of going directly to Kyoto for 3 to 4 nights and include a day trip to Hakone (or not?) and then coming back to Osaka for two nights to spend a full day there. Or is there something else I should really do? I read so many people talk about Hakone being really touristy, but my theory is that touristy areas are touristy for a reason -- they are worth seeing. Right? Really convenient and fairly inexpensive accomodation suggestions are welcome too.

DonTopaz

Kyoto is a magical place, definitely not to be missed, and having a very, very different character than that of Tokyo. It's a big and functioning city that's got lots of opportunities for non-city sights and pleasures. For Kyoto, I would uber-strongly recommend that you get your hands on <i>Seven Paths to The Heart of The City</i>, an illustrated-with-photographs paperbound book by Diane Durston. Gives you lots of good and specific suggestions for walking tours, and also gives an unparalleled sense of the nature of the city.

I can't say that Osaka did much for me -- not sure how much of that is the city and how much is the nature of my receptors.

Hakone is a very welcoming place, worth much more than a day trip in my view. The town of Gora is a good choice for stopping over. I really enjoyed the Hyatt in Gora for its welcoming nature and comfortable accommodations, though it's admitted neither cheap nor traditional.

(If it helps, I'm a solo, 60s male traveler.)

NeoPatrick

Hyatt's may be by downfall in Asia. I keep focusing on them as they seem to be excellent properties almost everywhere, but even with their senior rates and my other Hyatt perks, they could price me out of the budget.
People rave about the aquarium in Osaka, but it wouldn't break my heart to miss it. I think I'd probably want to spend my last night in Osaka though if my plane out is at 9:50AM.

So how would you break up the other 4 to 5 nights? Or >maybe< I could stretch it to 6. Or is it possible to go right to KIX from one of the cities by rail without spending that final night in Osaka?

kja

Have you considered spending a night at a temple in Koyasan? It can be a very special experience, and I thought the scenery glimpsed while getting there and back was quite spectacular.

DonTopaz

One suggestion would be 2 nights in Hakone, 4 in Kyoto. Hakone is an excellent place to chill out, and you might very well need, or at least cherish, that opportunity after your initial exposure to China. 4 night in Kyoto would give you the chance to explore the city, explore the surrounding hills/countryside, and even take a side trip for a day or half-day (to Nara, for example) if you feel like it.

KIX is about an hour from Osaka city, and about 75 mins from Kyoto. So, it's just as easy to stay in the latter. To check Japanese train schedules and fares, you will want to know about and use www.hyperdia.com -- you'll find everything you need there. If you didn't figure it out in your trip to Tokyo, Japanese trains run on time -- to the minute.

NeoPatrick

It will take some time to adjust to that train schedule. I can't figure out how to enter Hakone, for example, and will need to check how to get there from KIX. About how long a journey is that from the airport? I'm assuming I can get to Hakone from KIX in the afternoon, spend two nights, then go to Kyoto for four and still get to the airport directly from Kyoto for my 9:50 flight. Sounds good to me.

DonTopaz

For KIX, enter Kansai Airport.

Hakone is a region, so you'd need to enter one of the cities in Hakone (for example, Gora or Hakoneyumoto).

It takes a while to get into the more interesting part of Hakone, in large part because you take a single-track mountain railroad (Hakonetozan line) up to Gora.

NeoPatrick

I've been on the phone nearly all day with OneWorld on various aspects of this trip. So here is what I'm not looking at for this Japan segment. I'd arrive KIX on Wed. Aug 11 at 4:35 PM -- that's different from what I had looked at, and I think too late to go on to Hakone (over 5 hours). So maybe I should spend that night in Kyoto. Then go up to Hakone (Gora) the next day leaving early and spending that night. Perhaps two? Then return to Kyoto for two nights or three. I will now fly to Beijing on Monday, Aug. 16 departing at 9:55. So it's either one plus two nights in Kyoto and 2 nights in Hakone, or just one up there and four nights in Kyoto. What's your call?

hawaiiantraveler

I love rizzutos' itinerary with two nights in Hakone and 4 in Kyoto. If traveling from Kyoto to Hakone via the JR railway systems you must put in Kyoto to Odawara(JR train station in Hakone) I am assuming you are using the www.hyperdia.com site for your info.

See here for your Hakone part of the trip up to Gora or where ever you are intending to stay. I am having a real busy day at work today but will contribute some ideas to this thread this week end if you don't mind. I the meantime, here are some useful sites to get some info you are seeking:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5206.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2158.html

http://www.hakonenavi.jp/english/

Got to go to a meeting now, I'll be back.

Aloha!

hawaiiantraveler

on the first site I left switch the button to read <b>to/from Kyoto</b> and you will see the your directions and options

NeoPatrick

Well I did finalize my flight itinerary -- or at least it's on hold and I don't want to change it.
So I do have only 5, and not 6 nights in Japan, and I will not arrive at KIX until 4:35 PM which is on a Wednesday in August.
I have mixed feelings about breaking up the stay in Kyoto, but does it make sense to arrive in Osaka late in the afternoon and travel directly to Hakone arriving at night? That way I could spend two nights there and then three consecutive nights in Kyoto. But do I want to arrive in Hakone (Gora?) after dark?

eigasuki

Personally, for a trip that duration I would focus on Kyoto and leave Hakone for another time. (Then again, in six trips to Japan I've only ever done an overnighter in Hakone as part of package tour. I hope to rectify that this April)

I think there's plenty to do in and around Kyoto. Have you considered day trips to Okayama or Himeji? Arashiyama is good for the best part of a day, another places like Ohara or Mt Hiei are also great and might be cooler in August. The links HT gave you should provide you will the information you need to see what appeals to you.

16th August is the famous Gozan fire festival.

http://www.city.kyoto.jp/koho/eng/festivals/gozan.html

You'll be there for Obon, a busy travel time for Japanese who return to visit their families and ancestors.

http://pi-chan.com/Pages/kyoto.html


The Granvia Hotel located right by/in/at the station is a popular choice at Fodors.

http://www.granviakyoto.com/


Hope you enjoy Japan as much as we do

NeoPatrick

eigasuki, clearly you missed my point -- there will be no "other time", so would you still skip it? Spend all five nights in Kyoto, knowing you won't get back to Japan?

And I will be flying out of KIX to PEK on the 16th.

DonTopaz

With 5 nights/4 days, I'd do it the same way as <b>eigasuki</b> -- spend the full 5 in Kyoto as a base. Japan can be a magical place, but it washes over you in small waves rather than in a big tidal surge. It's only after you're there for a while that you come to recognize that so many of the details -- the placement of the sushi on the plate, the packaging of <i>anything</i> that you buy, the placement of paths in a garden, (almost) never hearing someone speak on a cell phone in a public space -- are not coincidental. The sites of Japan are wonderful, but they pale in comparison to the society as a whole ... and capturing a sense of that takes a bit more time than snapping a few photos.

Moreover, if you stay 5 nights in Kyoto, you could splurge for one or two nights at a top ryokan, such as Hiiragiya (http://www.hiiragiya.co.jp/en/). A great ryokan exemplifies the contrasting harmonies that make Japan so mind-bogglingly sweet to me: the experience is the ultimate in indulgence, yet it's also the ultimate in simplicity. Your room at a place like Hiiragiya will have almost no furniture, yet it will be one of the most exquisite rooms in which you will ever spend the night.

NeoPatrick

I always kind of regretted not doing a ryokan before when we were in Japan, but I'm honestly not sure I want to do one alone. I understand what it is about, but it is just so NOT me, and the idea of being in one by myself is actually depressing (although I totally understand it SHOULD be the exact opposite).

But now you've thrown me. Do you really think I should skip the Hakone area? That was half of what was making me want to do this little side excursion. I really don't think I want to spend the full 5 nights in Kyoto! I get what you're saying, but I'm just not a "stop and smell the roses" kinda guy. I'd feel I was missing too much.

DonTopaz

Fair enough. A place that's the Garden of Eden for quiet contemplation might well be a torture chamber for someone who'd rather be doing something -- anything! -- else.

The main problem, or what for me would be the main problem, is the logistics. To fit your schedule, you might consider staying at a gateway to Hakone, maybe Odawara or Hakone-yumato, for 2 nights. In the 1 full day that you'd have in the area, you could do the full Hakone loop, taking detours as you see fit. Then head off to Kyoto for the remaining days. Odawara is on the main shinkansen (bullet train) line between Tokyo and Kyoto, so travel would be extremely easy. There's a Hilton just a few miles outside of Odawara -- not exactly a quiet place, but comfortable, all rooms have ocean views, and it's got a very good water-based recreation area.

hawaiiantraveler

One of the first things I always take into account about a place I travel to is the weather and you are traveling to Asia and Japan at probably the hottest time of the year. With that in mind a little time in the higher elevations is the perfect idea to me. With 5 nights and 4 days on the ground if you don't want to base in Kyoto you can:

Day 1 - since you are arriving later you can take the Nankai Train from KIX to into Osaka and get off at the Namba station and stay at the somewhere like the Swissotel Osaka which is located right above the station so service would be door to door. This would allow you to walk around a little at night and check out some of Osakas most interesting areas.

http://www.swissotel.com/EN/Destinat...el+Description

or the budget options which are smaller business hotels but very clean and all usually include a breakfast and internet access with the room:

http://www.tokyuhotelsjapan.com/en/index.html

http://www.toyoko-inn.com/eng/

http://www.sunroute.jp/SunrouteTopHLE.html

http://www.comfortinn.com/sitemap-japan-JP

Day 2 - You could be up early to take in Osaka Castle if interested and then hop on the shinkansen and go on up to Odawara and Hakone. There at Odawara station you would purchase your Hakone Free Pass which covers all your transport within the Hakone area and proceed on up the mountain to do the loop http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5210.html before checking into your hotel after 15:00 or later but no later than 17:00 if your staying in a ryokan.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2358_008.html

Day 3 - 5 Head on to Kyoto

You can also just stay in Kyoto for five nights and base there as the others have suggested. The beauty of Japan is the ease and quickness in which you can get from one place to another via their fantastic shinkansen train system. You can base yourself in Kyoto and when you feel you've had enough of Kyoto you can visit Osaka,Nara,Himeji,Kobe or even Hiroshima as day trips if that would interest you.
Let us know if you need more options as there are some wonderful ryokans in the Hakone area I could suggest where you might not feel lonely for just one night as the experience is the thing as rizzuto suggests above....

Aloha!

lcuy

Patrick- I'd been to Japan 8 or 9 times before I finally got to Hakone this past October. While a nice place to visit, it was not - by any stretch of the imagination- one of the "must do" places in Japan. The scenery is beautiful and the Open Air museum is wonderful, but Hakone is a very popular honeymoon destination, so lots of cute young couples mooning over each other and older couples celebrating anniversaries. Half the fun of the cable car and pirate ships is their kitchiness.

If you do decide this is a must do, we stayed at the Suimeisou hotel in Hakone-Yumoto, which is about a 5 minute train ride from Odawara station, and the first stop on the Hakone circuit. The hotel is about 1 minute away from the rail station on the river. They have both japanese style and western style rooms, and the price is 15,000 Yen per night (per person) including a fabulous breakfast and dinner.

http://www.suimeisou.com/english/index.htm

If this was my trip, I would go into Kyoto for three nights. I'd then take a morning train to Odawara, get the Freepass, drop my bags at the hotel, do the circuit and spend the night. The next day, I'd do a bit more sightseeing, then head directly to Osaka for my last night.

As an examp[e of the time involved, on our trip we arrived at Narita airport at 6:30 Am, went through customs, took the two hour train ride to Odawara, did the entire circuit by about 5pm, then left the next morning right after breakfast to catch a 1 pm flight at Narita. Many Japanese do it as a day trip. Tourists who stay multiple days spend their extra time hiking or just chilling in their hotel baths).

I'm not a huge fan of Osaka, but there are some great restaurants for your last dinner. If you are into public baths, Spaworld ( http://www.spaworld.co.jp/english/service.html ) is a lot of fun. It is an easy 20 minute? train ride from the airport station.

Spend the night at the KIX airport hotel (Nikko?) so that you can have their nice buffet breakfast in the morning then do the 2 minute walk to the checkin counters at the airport.
The rooms were clean and comfortable, but nothing special. I'm not sure about their prices as our stay was included with a forced layover.

lcuy

OOps HT and I were posting at the same time.

HT was the one who helped me arrange my whirlwind Hakone trip in October. He knows his Japan.

Thanks Peter!

mrwunrfl

I would skip Hakone. I will suggest other itins the occurred to me when you mentioned that you like scenery.

Take the train from Kyoto to Matsuyama. Enroute, the train travels on bridges over the Inland Sea from Honshu to Shikoku and I thought it was breathtaking. When I took this trip I did it such that it was night time while traveling across northern Shikoku. If I do this again then I would take an earlier train to see what it is like during the day.

Visit Dogo Onsen (I liked it, HT didn't) if you are interested in hot springs (this is not a natural setting, though, as it is in the city). Visit the castle.

Take the hydrofoil from Matsuyama to Hiroshima. This is quite scenic (it is a national park area), especially so when I did it at sunset.

Spend a night in Hiroshima, visit the Peace Park and museum, and then take a day time train back to Osaka.