I've been looking at the hotel recommendations. I like the look of the Essence Hotels, both the hanoi and Hoi An locations. The Betel garden in Hoi An might be a better choice for a villa hotel stay since Hoi An is the place to do it. Hoi An Hotel recommended by Ethnic Looks very nice too.

Ethnic Travel came back with their cost for the same itinerary with a change to the Ninh Binh part:
Day 10: March 2: Dong Hoi / Fly to Hanoi / Ninh Binh / Van Long Nature Reserve / Yen Mo
This morning we will take a short fly to Hanoi. Upon your arrival we will pick you up and journey to Ninh Binh. Upon our arrival at Van Long Nature Reserve. Here, we enjoy a boat trip along the beautiful reserve of Van Long, an unique area known for its magnificent limestone peaks.
Next, we take a short transfer to Yen Mo, a village in Red River Delta is our home tonight.This area is home to Kinh people with their rich culture. They provide us the unique opportunity to experience the pace of village life in rural Vietnam. We we settle in with a family to make authentic Vietnamese food, such as succulent Spring Rolls, zesty dipping
sauce, fresh rice noodles and sticky rice. We then enjoy the family‛s gracious hospitality as they share dinner with us. The night is spent in a lodge for the night. (Breakfast, lunch and dinner are included).
Notes: Yen Mo Homestay Lodge.

Day 11: March 3: Yen Mo / Thung Nang / Trang An / Hang Mua Cave / Ngoa Long Mountain
/ Yen Mo
Today we explore Thung Nang and Trang An. This is an area which is famed for the beauty of its dramatic rock formations and its picturesque villages, offering some opportunities for boating and mingling with local people. Peaceful waterways, miles and miles of vivid green rice fields stretch along the shores of the Red river's tributaries and the intimacy
of the countryside. Next, we will take a bicycle ride around several villages and witness the tight-knit community at work. We learn about agriculture, such as rice cultivation, and the growing of peanuts and assorted vegetables, a time-consuming and labour-intensive process. Time
permitting, we discover Hang Mua and take a hike up Ngoa Long Mountain. Following is that we return to our lodge for the night. (Breakfast, lunch and dinner are included).
Notes: Yen Mo Homestay Lodge.

Day 12: March 4: Ninh Binh / Mai Chau / Te Village
We depart from Yen Mo to Mai Chau District. On arrival at a village of Mai Ha, we hike and cycle around the open rice fields, and idyllic villages in a particularly picturesque part of the area. We absorb the daily life and appreciate the warmth and friendliness of the local people we meet along the way. This is followed by our delicious lunch in a local family.
Afternoon finds us a footpath surrounded by terraces and picturesque hills. We hike due to Te Village. The night is spent in one of the White Thai family. The Thai people are an ethnic minority group originally from southern China and ethnically linked to the Thai inThailand. We enjoy the warm hospitality over a dinner with the host and an overnight stay
in a traditional stilt-house. (Breakfast, lunch and dinner are included).
Notes: Mai Chau Homestay Lodge.

Day 13: March 5: Te Village / Sam Khoe / Mai Ha / Te Village
The day begins with a beautiful hike through the tiers of splendid rice terraces and past several idyllic villages. We return to our homestay lodge for the night. (Breakfast, lunch and dinner are included).
Notes: Mai Chau Homestay Lodge.
Day 14: March 6: Te Village / Black River / Hanoi
This morning we take a short drive to Black River for a delightful boating ride along this river. Following lunch in a local restaurant, we drive back to Hanoi, arriving there at around 5pm. We will spend the night in a hotel. (Breakfast and lunch are included).
Notes: MK Hotel .
Day 15: March 7: Hanoi Sightseeing / Departure
Today, if you can wake up early (5am) we will visit Quang Ba flower market and Long Bien market to witness hundreds types of flowers and thousands types of products brought from everywhere are for sale. Next, we return to our hotel for having breakfast. The rest of your time you can relax and wander around Hanoi Old Quarter. No trip to Hanoi is really
complete without a performance of Hanoi's famous water puppets. Next, we will pick you up for a short transfer to Hanoi airport for boarding your preferred flight. (Breakfast is included).

The facts…
Transport: kayak, plane, boat, bicycle and a private car.
Tour Guides: our experienced and friendly Tour Guides speak excellent English or French.They are extremely knowledgeable about local cultures, history and the environment.Accommodation: Clean and welcoming homestays with mosquito nets provided.
Meals: We choose local ingredients, typical of the way people eat in the area, at local restaurants, homes or markets. We also cater for Vegetarians but please request this at time of booking.

The trip cost: $1,245USD per person.
The cost of the trip includes: all accommodation, transportation, meals listed on the itinerary, Tour Guides, flight tickets for both ways, all entrance fees and permits during guided excursions.

Those of you who have toured in the Mai Chau/Ninh Binh areas whose version looks more interesting?

They both look interesting. I can really only comment on the Ethnic Travel itinerary as it is similar to what we did.

As previously said, we stayed at a Yen Mo lodge and found it very comfortable. Day 12. - Mai Ha village is probably the same place where we had lunch. The food was great, and everyone was very welcoming.

The trek to the lodge at Te village takes about 3 hours over fairly steep terrain. I bailed mainly due to the heat, but DH continued, at least it won't be so hot in November. The lodge was a traditional stilt house with a pleasant underneath area for sitting around and taking in the views. Be aware the rooms are small, the bathrooms are separate. The family was very welcoming and the food again was excellent.

Susiesan



Hi Susie. I have. Already commented commented your itineraries by email but a word re homestays. As mentioned by both CaliNurse and Sartoric, the term "Homestay" means very different things in different places and is becoming almost as confusing and overused as "boutique". Such is the art of marketing tourism I guess.

It pays to know what to expect. The homestays with our Ethnic Trip last year what we asked for, and got, were true/basic/original type homestays. These involved living, sleeping and eating with the family. We purchased the food for the trip ourselves at the market before setting off and helped cook it (when invited). Sleeping arrangements were basic i.e. A mattress on the floor of the family communal room once dinner was cleared away. Separated by the rest if the family by a curtain. Toilet facilities were usually away from the house. Cold water only.

This type of homestay is really all about interacting with the family (at one I ended up looking after the baby whilst mum and my wife cooked dinner!).

We have stayed at more comfortable homestays in the delta, great locations yes, but they did lack the interaction and, being purpose-built they were arguably better described as boutique guesthouses. Some of the bigger lodges around Mai Chau are supposed to be especially nice, but I haven't stayed in one so can't comment first hand. Just make sure that you are not in one of the 40-50 "homestays" in the main MC village especially at weekends when the crowds arrive from Hanoi. The Men Tho place Sartoric stayed in sound fantastic!

The homestays we stayed in in the area you will be visiting were Xom Moi, Hang and Nua villages ( there was another but I failed to write it down! They were all great but of the basic variety described above.

As I mentioned previously and I think CaliNurse commented on here, check accomodation in Ninh Binh. We stayed in a v. Boring Chinese type hotel. Modern concrete. A bit of a disappointment after the homestay - but the hot showers were VERY welcome!

I noticed the Saigon Morin mentioned in Hue. We stayed there a few years ago and found it a bit dull. If you want to splash out ( and probably not much more) check out http://www.la-residence-hue.com where we also stayed. VERY stylish Art Deco hotel right on the river. I would say definitely the best place in town at that level. Probably best to book direct on the Accor website for best rates (join their loyalty programme first). A little further out of the centre but as you will be doing a tour that shouldn't make too much difference.

Clive: I wasn't going to have the type of trekking and homestay experience in Ninh Binh that you did. I don't mind one night in a basic home but that will be enough for me. Do you remember the name of the NB Chinese hotel?

A we will be in Hue only one night, just passing through, La Residence looks very expensive close to $170. Eldora Hotel from CVT is in the $65 range. I have plenty of time to research hotels and ask for changes which could make the total cost go up or down, I know. I'm thinking the big difference in the price from Ethnic Travel and Custom Vietnam Tours is due to the hotels chosen. More basic, less expensive from Ethnic plus 4 nights of homestays.

sartoric: I can find nothing on the Yen Mo lodge. Do you know where Ican see a description and photos? It is not on TA.

Susiesan,

Ask Ethnic travel to send you photos, they did for me.
It's a purpose built place with maybe 8 or nine rooms, they grow a lot of their food in the front yard. The kitchen/dining area is all in the same room (shoes off of course).

The beds were comfy, came with a mossie net.

Another suggestion for Ninh Binh: NAM HOA HOTEL! Note that the actual city of Ninh Binh is crowded and without charm--it is the surroundings are what draws people.This place is outside the town, as are the other homestays mentioned above.
Went with driver and guide in my daily search for perfect iced coffee, sat out on their sidewalk café (the Vietnamese equivalent of a French village café, perhaps!) and then I had lunch upstairs in dining roomon the 7th floor. Wow--Stupendous views of surrounding karsts.
THe staff at both reception, café, and restaurant were soooo friendly , I asked to see a hotel room. Because this is as far from a boxy modern concrete hotel as you can get, I was expecting a "local" style, basic, un-"western" bathroom--the kind with the unenclosed shower spout spraying everywhere! Well,not only was the room lovely ,and clean ... bathroom had a proper enclosed shower. And oh the bliss of well-functioning air conditioning. Anyway,if you prefer a hotel to a true homestay... check it out! Price is very reasonable--maybe $25 USD per night? Location is great, right across the from the small park and entrance to one part Tam Coc caves. Lots of rowboats and people were there--the caves I went to, there were far fewer people.
When I told Susan at CVT about this hotel "discovery" she said they had many clients stay and enjoy it. However, I expect that because it is more very inexpensive "local style", they don't automatically recommend it on their itineraries. Tnis would definitely be a budget level option.

As I requested, CVT has suggested Mua Cave Ecolodge for Ninh Binh. This lodge is #1 specialty lodging on TA. Double room $35. If you stay here you don't have to pay to go into the park and visit the cave.

I also asked CVT about Betel Garden Homestay in Hoi An as an alternate for a big hotel. Changing these 2 hotels drops $57 pp off the total price.

Nam Hoa Hotel looks very good too. Superior room is $36

Which caves had less people? Travel books on this area say you don't need to go to both Tam Coc and Trang An (think those are the names of the 2 caves to go to on the small boats)

I went to Trang An. NO other boats were passed there or back. It was a weekday morning. Women row with their feet!
Mua Cave Ecoladge...another I wish i'd listened to CVT about! it is actually only a few minutes walk from where I stayed, at Nguyen Shacks. NS is around the bend, so you can't see it, but when looking for it, we pulled to end of road where Mua Cave Ecolodge was. You can hike from right behind it.You are out in the countryside there for sure, surrounded by mountains.

I have decided to spend one less day in Ninh Binh/Mai Chau area and one more in Hanoi at the end of the trip. I will have a total of 4 nights in Hanoi and want to split it between 2 different areas and hotels.

Suggestions given by CVT for first 2 nights are to stay at Oriental Central
http://orientalcentralhotel.com

Upon returning to Hanoi at the end they suggest Essence Hanoi for the last 2 nights
http://essencehanoihotel.com/essence-hanoi-hotel-spa

Both hotels appear to be in the same neighborhood, the Old Quarter. Does this plan make sense?

The hotels are indeed both in the same area of the Old Quarter, just north of the lake, and are only a few blocks apart. So you are really not staying in different areas, far from it.
Based on the links, only I think I would prefer the essence. It is easy to get around from that area of the old quarter but it does get very, very busy. Stepping out of your hotel right into the hustle and bustle does have its advantages but personally, I prefer the area just to the east of the lake, around St Joesphs, quieter than the old quarter but still very much old Hanoi, yet within a 5 min walk of the old quarter and also within walking distance of the French quarter around the Metropole ( which does have a very different feel to it). The only area I wasn't that keen on was the west lake area.

Clive, can you suggest a hotel in the area east of the lake? If we have to walk 5 minutes into Old Quarter for dinner I don't mind. Other than the Sofitel Metropole which is way too expensive, I don't see many places on TA. I'm looking for something in a similar price range and star class of Essence Hanoi, $60 a night or so. CVT has suggested a hotel near the Metropole, La Siesta Hotel @$85 a night.

Lots of hotels called Essence in Hanoi! Must be a chain. The Metropole is a it further away in the French Quarter. Stayed there a couple of times a few years back and wasn't that impressed, way overpriced.

Last year we stayed at the Sunline Hotel. Small but nice rooms and really friendly and helpful staff - I think around $50-60 depending upon room.

Some friends stayed at the Hanoi Pearl, just down the same street from the Sunline, that too was very nice around $80 I think.

A REALLY nice place was the Apricot Hotel. V. close to the top of the lake, not far from the previous two. It opened last year and looked really nice. We ate there but didn't stay. It was on a par with the Metropole but at half the price.

I've heard the Metropole has improved in last few yrs. That aside, Susiesan, I there's a hotel in your pve range, just across and one minute down the street from the "Opera" entrance of the Metropole. it is called The Conifer.
I'm keeping it in mind if ever again in hanoi as it is in the French Quarter, which makes a nice change from the Old Quarter (which, after four nights, I was ready to get out of).
I noticed the Apricot too, Crellston, and indeed it looked lovely from outside and in lobby and gets good reviews. SS--note that it is NOT in the French Qtr, if you specifically want that, but across the lake. My travel agent at CVT recommended the Apricot for a "change of pace" after the Essence Hotels on "Beer Corner" but i wanted to try the Metropole, partly for the bunker tour, which was fantastic and very moving.

What is the Bunker Tour? We will have one free day in Hanoi with nothing planned so I'll be looking for things to do on that day.

I found a hotel on the edge of the Old Quarter that I asked CVT about, Hanoi La Selva. Small 20 room boutique hotel (which they all seem to call themselves).
http://m.hanoilaselvahotel.com/ Currently #3 on TA, but that is a constantly changing number. $50-$60 a night depending on room. Apricot Hotel is $175 a night, over the budget.

Clive, Sunline Hotel is on the west side of the lake that you said you didn't care for the area. Why was that? it is currently #97 on TA at $80.

Sorry for the confusion Susie, I meant that I like the west side of the lake NOT the east! For someone who travels more or less continually, my sense of direction is total cr**

The La Selva link you provided doesn't seem to say that much, but I know that area and prefer the street that Sunline and Hanoi Pearl are in. Quieter with much less traffic and close to some nice restaurants. My wife did set up a Google map of our fav. Restaurants in Hanoi. When I get a moment I will try and find it and email you the link.

There are a lot more hotels on the west side of the lake than the east side. That opens up a lot more options. Clive would you consider that part of Hanoi to be a different area/neighborhood than the Old Quarter? ARe thee a lot of restaurants near enough to walk to for dinner? Once I settle into a hotel at the end of a day of touring I prefer not to have to take a taxi to go to dinner. I like to walk to a place close to where I'm staying.

Susiesan,the bunker tour you asked about is at the Metropole. During excavations for the current poolside bar, it was discovered. The tours are given every day at 5:00 pm (and 6:00 pm --not sure that is always the case) for registered hotel guest only. It was very moving, as our guide shared her own memories of what, as an 8yr old child then, she recalled during the bombing raids.
You can also get an interesting history by wandering around the lobby and hallways in the "Historic wing" lobby. There are photos/narratives that the history of the area, of the Metropole, and then take you into the actual concrete bunker rooms where people (including Joan Baez, who was in Hanoi at the time) stayed during the bombings.

You mention tripadfvsor ratings, e.g. #97 . YO problaby know this, as It's a topic that has been discussed frequently. I will reiterate: ote that just because of a certain number on the hotels list, the place may not be good or bad. Tripadvisor uses a complex rating system which includes the number of user reviews. So a little known place that may be excellent, may be low on the list, because few know of it. Be sure to read the details of the reviews, photos by guest vs the hotel's web site, as well as the ranking of the writer (is it their only post or their 50th?)

I agree Calinurse, the algorithms TA a use are IMO both basic and flawed in the way they rank accomodation. For a start it is ridiculous to compare say the metropole to a basic homestay room. I do look at TA and use the same criteria as you to discount reviews. I also tend to ignore reviews from certain nationalities that have a tendency to whinge about everything!

Booking.com has a ore transparent systems rating. Not perfect, but if, when reviewing a place, you play around with the scores, it is easy to see how it works. The reviews tend to be shorter and to the point as well I.e. GOOD - BAD points.

I would describe they area west of the lake to be a different neighbourhood to the old quarter. Once you cross the main road that goes across the top of the lake it has a different vibe completely. Quieter, less traffic and far fewer of the backpackers that make up the majority of the tourist population in the area. Lots of very good restaurants. In fact I saw on the news that Barack Obama visited my favourite Banh Mi place a week or so ago!

Three weeks in Hanoi and we only ever took a taxi once - to the airport! Distance wise, from that area to the old quarter is a 2-3 min walk - to the de facto centre of the old quarter i.e. Beer corner, 10-15 mins

One thing I would suggest is with a few days there, nail down the restaurants you want to eat in and find out where they are in advance. There are just so many to choose from.

Clive, I have asked CVT to suggest a few hotels in the area west of the lake for the first 2 nights. Upon our return to Hanoi for the last 2 nights I will choose a place in the Old Quarter, at this point either Oriental Central or Hanoi Essence Hotel. I'm using a budget of $60-$70 a night. I try to stay away from hotels used by tour groups and backpackers. Sunline Hotel is pricing out at $68 for a very small room, $77-$84 for a bigger room. It's under consideration.

Yes, I know TA's ratings can be a bit strange for places that are heavily reviewed. I read the lowest rated reviews, and if there are a lot put in recently it can indicate problems brewing. I too look at the nationality of the reviewers. Who do you think does the most whining?

Singaporean, Malaysian and Indian in that order!

We walked into Sunline on the day and got a good deal on a decent sized room. Just looked back on our Trailwallet App and it was $50 inc breakfast.

I have never tried it myself but other have commented ( notably Kathie, I think) that agents often seem to be able to ge a better deal on Vietnam hotels than are available on booking.com et al.