Craig

Some comments re: dogster's insightful and detailed post -

There are advantages and disadvantages to being "stuck" with a driver or guide for 18 days. The advantage is that you develop a relationship with the individual and get more insight into their country, their family life - when you have a question, there's someone with you that can answer it.

Rammuni is positioning himself as a tour director, not a guide. He really has no guiding skills and by Sri Lankan law he can not guide you through any of the cultural triangle sites - only local authorized guides can do that. I have no idea what his rates are like for hotels. If they are high, don't go through him. When I hired him for his driving services, I had no idea that I was getting him and a driver for the price of a driver - for us it worked out just fine, though.

Villa Araliya is not a dump. It is not on the beach. I don't know if I would want to spend 2 days there though. Either way, the "low-life beach bums" won't bother you.

We have been advised that there is better shopping in Colombo than anywhere else in SL. We didn't go there because we didn't have the time. There were also safety concerns - a bus was blown up in Colombo while we were at Tea Trails. These incidents have been happening regularly.

I am open-minded to hearing about dogster's experiences in Galle and what else he would recommend doing there.

You could of course arrange all of your drivers through your hotels and be just fine. I'm not sure you could get a large van if you wanted it and I'm not sure I'd want to be taking any kind of long trip (more than 15 minutes) in a tuk-tuk. This includes the trip from Norwood to Castlereigh (45 minutes with no stops for photos or visiting Summerville).

The booking sites all provide drivers, not guides.

The cost of having a full time driver relative to what you will be paying for hotels is small...

As far as I can tell, the only suggestion dogster made that will save you money on hotels is not going during holiday season. I have seen no evidence that there is any cost advantage to booking directly and there is a risk that there is noone to back you if your direct reservation gets "misplaced".

dogster

Hi Craig: well, you're proving my point.

If the costs are the same on their website and those of the properties then what are the extra costs for? If Boutique Sri Lanka are charging 80% mark-up on what Robbie can do over the net then I think they are a firm contender for BS artist of the year. I can only assume that 80% is for the car, guide and driver.. and, of course, the 'stupid tourist' mark-up.

Remember, they all have an agenda. Part of that agenda is steering you to the hotels they have an 'arrangement' with. Luckily, you, Kathie, and I hope robbie are smarter than that.

Frankly, if the costs are exactly the same, and you can knock it off yourself on the net - why would you use them? - let alone trust them.

FYI: www.i-escape.com

Because of the way you did your trip you didn't have a chance to USE the properties - in the sense of their additional services. Getting people to and from their properties is par for the course.

My point as to whether robbie actually NEEDS a guide for the trip he has planned - OR a dedicated driver remains. My post was intended to suggest that there is another way entirely - cheaper, just as easy - with a RANGE of local influences rather than a two-week monologue of opinion from one man.

It's not what the guide tells you - it's what he DOESN'T tell you that counts.

If you and robbie feel you need the security of a minder that's fine. The first time in a new country is stressful for all of us.

Craig

Dogster,

I think you missed my main points:

1. I don't think there's ANY difference in cost between between booking hotels directly or through Boutique Sri Lanka or any of the other sites. I think Robbie misread the pricing. It is easy to do - different rooms, different dates (written backwards by the way for us Yanks), dinner included/not included, premium for certain dates - it really takes a lot of effort to sort it all out. Having done it myself, I know that BSL and the others are simply paid a percentage of the rate - there is no mark-up.

2. As I said before, the booking agencies do not supply guides, only drivers and they should be priced separately so that there is no hidden mark-up. Please note that I am NOT recommending the use of a guide. However, in Rammuni I did have someone who was quite helpful, honest and insightful and I would recommend doing business with him if only to be assured of getting a large vehicle.

3. I read stories on Tripadvisor where direct reservations were not honored at Kandalama - that for me is good enough reason to book through an agent (ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, OF COURSE).

4. Yes, getting people to and from properties is a service that is par for the course and for which you pay extra. If you had read my post carefully you could see that I agreed that this is certainly one way to go. Having a driver on call is another. It doesn't cost that much more and is one less thing you have to worry about when you are there. Your point about interacting with a range of local influences is well-taken but I'm willing to bet that most of the drivers you get from hotels don't speak English very well.

5. I think us Fodorites do enough research for these trips that in many instances we know MORE than any guide. I for one really don't care what the don't tell me.

dogster

Well, Craig - quite a correspondace eh? Our posts crossed in the ether - my response was to your first replies. Now I see the one directed to me:

Alas, doggies in his kennell and the sleepers are starting to take effect. It's 11p.m. ish in BKK right now and I'm up at 4.00 a.m. bound for Chennai.
So, forgive me, if I can't answer your points till I land on my feet in Bangalore, later in the afternoon.
May I ask - what did your driver and car and erstwhile guide cost you all up - including tips - for your 14 days?

Do you agree that a guide and driver are uneccesary for parts of Robs trip? As listed above.

By the time I surface in India maybe robbie will have chimed in on those quotes and can explain where the operative 80% - 30% were to go.

The other thing to remember is that when one travels in SL one is treated right royally - a friend who lived there told me 'you have to learn how to be king' - and like a king, you are surrounded by servants, all of whom, charmingly, will defer to the king. None of them are going to speak to with anything other than respect.

But as for being spoken as a REAL person... almost impossible to find in the context in which your travelling.

Your guide and driver insulate you - you travel as a happy, self-contained band, meeting other tourists - the only Sri Lankans you meet are either your 'servants', your employees and the staff. All lovely, all friendly, deferential to a fault, polite and correct. How lovely you think.. until you find out some of realities.

After a few weeks of that I started to long for someone to talk to me man to man... to tell me things nobody else would.

Did you look deep into the eyes of those colourful tea-pickers? $2 a day [plus housing and medical]My tourist pics, closely examined, were devastating.

I estimated that over the 12 nights I booked at Tea Trails [2 people by 6 nights] we paid the daily salary of 1,500 tea pickers. Strangely enough, I don't think that's where the $$ went...

We go to Tea Trails for a magical pretend trip of The Tea Fields of Dreams. TT knows its in the business of selling dreams - but the REAL Sri Lanka it ain't. It's a damn fine dream though.

Not that all travel HAS to involve the hard questions about Sri Lanka. Lots of people go there for sun, a great deal of available sex [those beach boys again] and not much else.
And that's fine by me.

But it's not fine FOR me.

Now - the kennell.

Craig

Dogster - we paid $80/day for 13 days plus $100 for Rammuni's lodging and meals that the hotels didn't pick up plus a $100 tip to the driver. I am sure we could have paid much less - smaller car, not on call 24-7 etc but so what? - I only do one 2-1/2 week trip like this per year...

I think Kathie paid less than half of what we paid...

For us this was a pleasure trip to enjoy the scenery, history and the pampering that you receive at Sri Lanka's finest hotels.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make - when you go to New York or London do you visit the slums or do you sample the finest of what these places have to offer? - same goes for Sri Lanka. Of course we recognize that there are hard realities bubbling just below the surface and out of reach of the short term tourist. And yes, I did look into those tea pickers' eyes and saw in them what a hard life they have.

But basically you are right, we were isolated - not by our guide and driver but by choice.

Kathie

Robbie, Here is the contact info for the Kandy House: The manager’s name is Tania Brassey, phone +94 81 492 1394, fax +94 81 242 0846, email [email protected] Her card also lists her mobile number: 071 3472121

The company my driver works for is ECD Global (Pvt) Ltd. The man who met us at the airport (along with our driver) is the Marketing and Operations Executive, Dave Fernando. Email: [email protected] They have a website www.ecdglobal.net phone: +94-11-4613637

I know I have (or had) Aslam’s mobile number somewhere, but I am unable to locate it this morning.

I, personally, would not spend two nights at Villa Araliya. Add a night to the Kandalama. And if you have another extra night, I might add it to the Kandy House. We really enjoyed our time there, and would have liked some time just to wander the town. With that tweaking, I think you have a fabulous itinerary!


My experience was that booking directly with the hotels cost the same as booking through BSL for the same room type, meals included, etc. I agree with you, Craig, it took me a while to figure out comparing like with like on the various websites. I found that the hotel booking sites charged more than BSL. I talked with BSL about their hotel prices, and they said their prices should be the same as the hotel’s websites, that they took their commission from the hotel. My research indicated that was true.

We had a driver (not a guide) for the whole trip. It's true that we didn't use him at all at Tea Trails (the staff at Tea Trails did use him to run some errands for them). But everywhere else, we used him every day. We made two roundtrips a day from the Kandy House into Kandy, for instance. At the Kandalama there was obviously a lot of driving. It would have made no sense for me to book various drivers in chunks from one hotel to another, as I needed a driver at each location (except Tea Trails). Certainly one could have the hotels provide transport. It's a matter of personal preference. If you were just going from one hotel to another and staying at just the hotel (rather than lots of trips into town or to various sites) it would make more sense to use hotels to provide transport. For the sort of trip Robbie has planned, (and for the trips I took and Craig took) I believe it makes the most sense to hire a driver. Neither Craig nor I hired a guide except at the historic sites (oh, except for the guided walk Craig and Jeanne took at Tea Trails), nor do I think Robbie and Fred need a guide except for the historic sites. BSL charged us $422.20 for our car and driver for 10 days. It turned out they had mis-calculated the mileage (kilometerage?) and we owed an additional $60 for mileage. We tipped our driver US$100. I thought the price was quite reasonable.

We used local guides at the major sites (Dambulla Cave Temples, Sigirya, Polonnaruwa, Temple of the Tooth). My next trip, I would re-visit some of these places and not use a guide. I would use a driver again next trip. I do find that with the right driver, I can find out quite a lot about the experience of the local people in a country. Our driver was willing to talk with us about the political situation, the impact of various government decisions, his read of the support/lack of support for the war among the people he knows, etc.

Dogster, I think you have lots of valuable information to offer. I just wish you could do so without the need to be nasty or condescending. But then, perhaps you thought my comment about your comparison of Anuradhapura to Angkor was nasty. That was not my intent. I was trying to prompt you to make a more useful comparison. I would still be interested in a comparison between Anuradhapura and any of the sites I was able to visit.

I know Craig and Jeanne, Robbie and Fred and Cheryl and I are all well-traveled people. We plan and book our own trips. We are not naïve in the ways of the travel industry, nor do any of us have the illusion that the locals live the life of Tea Trails. We do go on vacation to learn of and experience some of a different culture – and yes, to be pampered.

Yes, I looked into the eyes of the tea-pickers. No question, they have a hard life. And by talking with them and with others, I discovered that because the tea companies pay for medical care for the tea pickers and their families and because they pay for their children’s education, these people have a better life than many in Sri Lanka.

Robbietravels

Great feedback. I'm glad to keep company with such savvy travelers. A few clarifications. We were not planning on a guide accompanying us; just car and driver for selected parts.

Craig is absolutely right, there is a vast different between BSL's quote for the entire package (12K) and BSL's prices via their websites for individual hotels. Ditto Sri Lanka in Style. Even when I add in a guestimate of $1200 for car driver for the whole trip (no one would break out the transport when giving a package price) I am $3000 less than the packages offered by BSL and SLinStyle. So I do think gauging goes when they package everything together.

I will contact Kathy's source and get their prices for car and driver. I figured we'd want a car and driver only part of the time: from leaving Negombo thru drop off at train station in Kandy, Next, a car/driver available the day before we depart Tea Trails (to tour around) and next day drive us to Yala; no car needed within Yala and none at 3 day beach stay at the end. We will need transport from Yala to Galle and Galle to Bentota and Bentota to airport. I think I can make these arrangements in dvance or as Dogster suggests ask the hotel (in advance) to provide a car/driver.
So its clear to me that in places where the hotel has an iffy reputation or I cannot make direct contact, I will use one of the on-line booking services.

I will book Villa Araliya, Kandalama and Kandy House through SL websites. At Tea Trails, the hotel quotes $488 all inclusive in a luxury room and, in response to my question, said that going thru a tour operator with contract rates could save money there. BSL was identical in price to hotel quote. I'm waiting for prices from SLIS and I-Escapes.

Kathy thanks for your take on Villa Araliya for two nights. We'll have to decide to either add a day at Kandalama or Kandy or stay at The Beach for 2 nights instead of Villa Araliya) at the beginning . I know I will need to rest after our long convoluted flight (LAx-HK-8 hr layover-HK-SING-SL) so I'm weighing whether to do two nights at the beach before the trek to Dambulla or go straight to Dambulla the morning (like 11 am) after we arrive and rest up at Kandalama the rest of the day. Any thoughts? Also are you saying there's enough to do in Kandy to warrant 3 nights. I think we'll have enough relaxing time with 4 nights at Tea Trails and 3 nights at the beach but.....?

At Tea Trails, the hotel quotes $488 all inclusive in a luxury room and, in response to my question, said that going thru a tour operator with contract rates could save money there. BSL was identical in price to hotel quote. I'm waiting for prices from SLIS and I-Escapes.

Craig

I don't think you'll save any money on Tea Trails going through a tour operator but you never know.

I would rather be resting at Kandalama versus Villa Araliya after a series of long flights.

3 nights in Kandy is way too much although if I had to do it, I'd do it at Kandy House. With 2 nights, Kathie was unable to do the Botanic Gardens which as you know, I felt was one of the highlights in that area.

I will be interested in hearing how you make out with your car reservations. It sounds like having a large vehicle is not a priority with you. I don't think a tour company will be willing to do piecemeal arrangement but you never know. You can always rely on the hotels to do it and you are not dealing with any hotels with iffy reputations as far as I can tell.

It is really odd that you were quoted a package price from BSL - everything was itemized for us without us asking - must be the time of year.

If you do the train, you must make your reservations well in advance and arrange for the hotel or driver to meet you. Times are unreliable so be aware...

Kathie

Robbie, BSL broke out all of the various parts of the trip for us so we could decide. And the total they wanted was the exact sum of the various hotels plus the car and driver. So I'm bewildered how they could come up with a package price so much more than the component parts. Tell BSL you have friends who booked through them and received itemized prices, etc.

I'd choose the Kandalama for recovering from your flights. Just spend the night at the Villa Arayila and go on to the Kandalama. The Beach was not an impressive hotel. We had dinner there the last night before our flight and looked at the place. I can't say I'd want to stay there, and it is the nicest place in Negombo.

We could have used another day in Kandy. As Craig said, we didn't get to the botanic gardens which we really wanted to do. And I wanted more time just to walk around the town and browse markets and such.

Kathie

Robbie, here's another thought. If you are looking for somewhere to stay for two nights near the airport, consider a place called The Hideaway. It's available through BSL. ccc wrote a trip report a couple of years ago. They spent one night there and wished they had more time. It would be a perfect place to recover from jetlag!

Hanuman

Robbie - hope you don't mind me butting in but I'm also thinking of visiting Sri Lanka and I would like to ask Craig and Kathie some question about Kandy.

Craig/Kathie,

Did any of you see or visit Helga's Folly in Kandy? Would like to spend a couple of days around Kandy and this place looks "interesting" and from the description it seems that it's situated in town.

http://www.helgasfolly.com/index.htm

Craig

ccc on this forum (also mentioned above re: The Hideaway) did not like Helga's Folly. It has received mixed reviews on Tripadvisor with the primary complaint being the lack of cleanliness in the rooms.

Craig

For anyone concerned, I just received an e-mail from the person that referred Rammuni to me. He said that Rammuni usually takes along a driver so that he can better concentrate - makes a lot of sense, actually as driving in SL requires a lot of attention.

Kathie

Hanuman, as Craig mentioned, Helga's folly was completely panned by ccc. I also read other reviews (on Thorn Tree) that were not good. I ruled it out on that basis, and did no more research on it.

Robbietravels

I've decided to do three nights at Kandy House because we won't arrive until early afternoon from Kandalama. I want to have enough time to visit the gardens and poke around town as well as enjoy Kandy House. In addition, our friends who own an Asian art gallery are putting me in contact with a Sri Lankan woman who has started a charity organization to benefit the tea pickers. I'd like to visit her and learn about her efforts.
I'll keep you posted on my bookings
Hanuman, I agree the reviews are mixed on Helga's Folly, ditto on Mahaweli Reach. Topaz Hotel sounds less interesting but cleaner. There may be a Villa Rosa in the area (if I'm not mixing it up with something else.)

Mohammed

Hi Robbie,

Mahaweli Reach owned and operated by the very nice Pannabokke family is a very nice hotel however it is a "hotel" where you will meet more crowds as opposed to Kandy House which is small boutique class villa style place. Topaz is clean & comfortable but no patch to either of these. If you have more activity planned for Kandy by all means do three nights, however, other than for the main sights, the temple, gardens, and perhaps the eveening cutural show, the town etc is pretty lousy. Jus my 2 cts (in local currency!)

Mohammed

One more question I have - Why do none of you ever consider Nuwara Eliya? It is only a 1 1/2 hour drive from Kandy and the road is superb. Nuwaraeliya has some good hotels, The Tea Factory (same owners as Kandalama), Grand Hotel, The snobbish but charming Hill Club, and from here to tea trails it is only about another 1 1/2 hours very pleasant drive through tea country. Nuwaraeliya has a certain charm you will not find anywhere else, a superb golf club/course, 45 mins drive up to Horton Plains, and the best tea country. This would make a logical route to Tea Trails through much better roads too.

Mohammed

Oh I just saw your going from Kandy to Hatton by train - thats a good choice too.

Mohammed

Robbie, another superb property down south is Mirissa Hills - http://www.mirissahills.com/index.html however this is not on the beach. If your in the area for 3 or four days this is a superb place to base your self and being away from the beach can actually be more comfortable. Dunno if BSL offer this, maybe they do too. Also I'm not sure if they sell it for just two pax. However I can assure you the house is luxurious, classy and the views at sunset are stupendous.

Also check out Adittya (which is owned by my cousin) is located in Rathgama between Galle and Hikadduwa, it is a really classy place. I think only 12 suites each with private Jacuzzis etc in each suite. The location affords realy privacy with historic Galle and the busy Hikkaduwa restaurant/bar "strip" just 10 min away.

Also if your going to spend a night in Colombo a very nice very small boutique hotel, old colonial mansion conversion, just around the corner from my office in a semi residential area, is "The Park Street Hotel", this is operated by Taru of Taru Villas fame. BTW Taru is also a well know dress designer in town.

Craig

Robbie, I'm with Mohammed that Kandy is probably not worth 3 nights. If you arrive early afternoon, you would have plenty of time to settle in at Kandy house, head out to do the Temple of the Tooth and the cultural show (they are practically right next to each other) and be back in time for a relaxing dinner. That would give you all day the following day to do the Botanical Gardens (best early in the morning or late in the day when its not too hot) and meet with your contact.

As far as I could see, there wasn't much poking around to do in Kandy. Other than the Handicrafts shop that is adjacent to the cultural show, there wasn't much shopping either.

The Kandy House, while it is probably one of the nicest places to stay in Kandy is not worth an extra night on its own merit, IMO.