Need advice re JR train Pass
Feb 2nd, 2007, 11:34 AM
#1
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Need advice re JR train Pass
Background: I am in early stage of planning a 8-day trip to Kansai region with JR Rail Pass (excluding arriving and departing days). KIX is both my arrival and departure airport. Osaka,Himeji, Nara, Kyoto, Nagoya and Toyotashi are interested destinations from 3 base cities (Osaka, Kyoto and Nagoya).
Here are my questions:
Q: After arriving at KIX at 7:30PM, we would like to get to Nagoya immediately. Can we activate the JR Pass at that hour? And, from hyperdia.com, trains will generally take 2 to 3 hours for the journey. I have problem in understanding where the transfer takes place.
Can you help?
Q: From base city Osaka, day trip to Himeji, and another day trip to Nara; from base city Nagoya, day trip to Toyotashi for the Toyota Factory Tour. No day trip planned from Kyoto. Base on this itinerary, which rail pass should I purchase?
Thank you very much.
Here are my questions:
Q: After arriving at KIX at 7:30PM, we would like to get to Nagoya immediately. Can we activate the JR Pass at that hour? And, from hyperdia.com, trains will generally take 2 to 3 hours for the journey. I have problem in understanding where the transfer takes place.
Can you help?
Q: From base city Osaka, day trip to Himeji, and another day trip to Nara; from base city Nagoya, day trip to Toyotashi for the Toyota Factory Tour. No day trip planned from Kyoto. Base on this itinerary, which rail pass should I purchase?
Thank you very much.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 03:46 PM
#2
I'm pretty sure that you don't need a 7-day JR Pass. Please lay out your plan, day by day.
For example:
Day 1 Arrive KIX, train to Nagoya.
Day 2 Go to Toyota-shi, night in Nagoya
...
Because you will base in Osaka the Kansai Area Pass may save you some yen. There is also a similar non-JR rail pass. japan-guide.com has a good description of the passes.
But I think that (pending further info on your itinerary) that you would likely benefit by not getting a pass. Your itinerary includes several places that are well served by rail companies other than JR but you will also want to use JR for some of the travel.
You ought to find the Kansai airport webpage and check on ground transportation. I think that you might find a direct bus from KIX to Nagoya (and/or Nagoya airport).
For example:
Day 1 Arrive KIX, train to Nagoya.
Day 2 Go to Toyota-shi, night in Nagoya
...
Because you will base in Osaka the Kansai Area Pass may save you some yen. There is also a similar non-JR rail pass. japan-guide.com has a good description of the passes.
But I think that (pending further info on your itinerary) that you would likely benefit by not getting a pass. Your itinerary includes several places that are well served by rail companies other than JR but you will also want to use JR for some of the travel.
You ought to find the Kansai airport webpage and check on ground transportation. I think that you might find a direct bus from KIX to Nagoya (and/or Nagoya airport).
Feb 2nd, 2007, 03:52 PM
#3
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It doesn't sound to me like you would need a pass either...but, yes, do lay out your exact travel plans.
If you take the train to Nagoya from the airport, the fastest and simplest route is to take the Haruka Express from the airport to Shin Osaka and transfer to the shinkansen there.
If you take the train to Nagoya from the airport, the fastest and simplest route is to take the Haruka Express from the airport to Shin Osaka and transfer to the shinkansen there.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 04:17 PM
#4
Approximate costs on JR:
8500 KIX -> Nagoya
8500 Nagoya -> Himeji
5800 Himeji -> KIX
1500 Osaka <-> Nara
1700 Osaka <-> Shinosaka a couple of times
====
26000 all on JR
But you can probably find lower fares for some of you travel by not using JR. Or by using other trains.
Osaka-Shinosaka-Himeji 43 minutes and 3640 each way if the trip includes the shinkansen.
Osaka-Himeji is 60 minutes and 1450 each way uising a JR Rapid train. Other train companies might be better.
Toyata is best visited without using JR from Nagoya.
8500 KIX -> Nagoya
8500 Nagoya -> Himeji
5800 Himeji -> KIX
1500 Osaka <-> Nara
1700 Osaka <-> Shinosaka a couple of times
====
26000 all on JR
But you can probably find lower fares for some of you travel by not using JR. Or by using other trains.
Osaka-Shinosaka-Himeji 43 minutes and 3640 each way if the trip includes the shinkansen.
Osaka-Himeji is 60 minutes and 1450 each way uising a JR Rapid train. Other train companies might be better.
Toyata is best visited without using JR from Nagoya.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 08:15 PM
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mrwunrfl and Kimjapan,
Thanks for the quick response. Following is my prelim itin:
Day 1 - arr KIX at 7:30PM; go to Nagoya; nite in Nagoya.
Day 2 - Go to Toyotashi, nite in Nagoya
Day 3 - Spend day in Nagoya (possible ceramic factory tour); late afternoon go to Kyoto; nite in Kyoto
Day 4 - Day & nite in Kyoto
Day 5 - Day & nite in Kyoto
Day 6 - Morning go to Osaka; nite in Osaka
Day 7 - Go to Himeji; nite in Osaka
Day 8 - Go to Nara; nite in Osaka
Day 9 - Free day, no program as yet, need suggestions; nite in Osaka
Day 10 - Depart from KIX at 4:30PM. Need suggestion about electronics and digital camera shopping for the morning.
Please evaluate if any rail pass would make sense. Also need recommendations re real Japanese cuisine (sashimi, sushi in authentic Japanese restaurants (moderate prices)in above mentioned cities. Appreciate all your suggestions.
Thanks for the quick response. Following is my prelim itin:
Day 1 - arr KIX at 7:30PM; go to Nagoya; nite in Nagoya.
Day 2 - Go to Toyotashi, nite in Nagoya
Day 3 - Spend day in Nagoya (possible ceramic factory tour); late afternoon go to Kyoto; nite in Kyoto
Day 4 - Day & nite in Kyoto
Day 5 - Day & nite in Kyoto
Day 6 - Morning go to Osaka; nite in Osaka
Day 7 - Go to Himeji; nite in Osaka
Day 8 - Go to Nara; nite in Osaka
Day 9 - Free day, no program as yet, need suggestions; nite in Osaka
Day 10 - Depart from KIX at 4:30PM. Need suggestion about electronics and digital camera shopping for the morning.
Please evaluate if any rail pass would make sense. Also need recommendations re real Japanese cuisine (sashimi, sushi in authentic Japanese restaurants (moderate prices)in above mentioned cities. Appreciate all your suggestions.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 08:29 PM
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The last departure from KIX that would get you to Nagoya within a reasonable time is at 9:16 PM. If your flight is delayed you will have a problem I'm afraid. It might be better to plan the trip to Nagoya for the other end of the trip for this reason. While most of the time flights get in on time and you can breeze through immigration, get your luggage and go through customs...sometimes there are long lines at immigration in KIX, sometimes flights are late, sometimes bags take time to come out....things can go wrong, so you may want to have a plan that is a bit more foolproof.
If you planned to start out in Kyoto, at least if you missed the 9:16 train, you'd have some options of taking less convenient but still reasonable travel times...miss the 9:16 and Nagoya becomes a 10 hour overnight traiin with multiple transfers and long waits. Kyoto is still within a couple of hours travel time even if you are late, and there is a bus option as well.
Once when our plane was horribly delayed into KIX the airline had special buses for the passengers, as there were no more trains or scheduled buses that night.
Since you are doing day trips from Osaka, you could stay put in Kyoto and do the same trips from there. This would save moving hotels.
There is an enormous electronics and camera shop just to the side of Osaka Station...Yodabashi I think it is. You can't miss it...huge and loud. Items for the Japan market are often well priced, but warranty does not apply outside of Japan. International market goods have an international warranty, but are not priced as well. I'd advise you to know exactly what you want, know the price that you can get it for at home, and then shop. From store to store, prices don't vary much. Big ticket items are negotiable, but usually you get bonus points on a point card that can be used to discount a future purchase that is not on the same day....meaning you need to have 2 days before you leave to take advantage of using any points you may have gotten.
If you planned to start out in Kyoto, at least if you missed the 9:16 train, you'd have some options of taking less convenient but still reasonable travel times...miss the 9:16 and Nagoya becomes a 10 hour overnight traiin with multiple transfers and long waits. Kyoto is still within a couple of hours travel time even if you are late, and there is a bus option as well.
Once when our plane was horribly delayed into KIX the airline had special buses for the passengers, as there were no more trains or scheduled buses that night.
Since you are doing day trips from Osaka, you could stay put in Kyoto and do the same trips from there. This would save moving hotels.
There is an enormous electronics and camera shop just to the side of Osaka Station...Yodabashi I think it is. You can't miss it...huge and loud. Items for the Japan market are often well priced, but warranty does not apply outside of Japan. International market goods have an international warranty, but are not priced as well. I'd advise you to know exactly what you want, know the price that you can get it for at home, and then shop. From store to store, prices don't vary much. Big ticket items are negotiable, but usually you get bonus points on a point card that can be used to discount a future purchase that is not on the same day....meaning you need to have 2 days before you leave to take advantage of using any points you may have gotten.
Feb 3rd, 2007, 12:37 AM
#7
You don't need a 7-day JR Pass. I would get a 4-day JR West Kansai Area Pass and start using it on day 7 and end using it at KIX after taking the Haruka L'Ex.
IMPORTANT: read the info at the link below and also go to the JR webpage to see the description of the pass. This pass IS NOT VALID for the shinkansen. The only Limited Express train that it is good for is the one that goes to the airport (the Haruka).
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361_03.html
Why are you planning to stay in Osaka? Because it is centrail to the day trips you want to make? Or is there another reason?
IMPORTANT: read the info at the link below and also go to the JR webpage to see the description of the pass. This pass IS NOT VALID for the shinkansen. The only Limited Express train that it is good for is the one that goes to the airport (the Haruka).
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361_03.html
Why are you planning to stay in Osaka? Because it is centrail to the day trips you want to make? Or is there another reason?
Feb 3rd, 2007, 01:52 AM
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No buses from KIX to Nagoya. There are buses from Osaka to Nagoya, though I didn't see any late departures or overnight ones. Several bus companies do the route, though, so it may be possible, but still not convenient.
Feb 3rd, 2007, 10:05 PM
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Kim,
Reason for my wanting to get to Nagoya upon arrival at KIX was due to trying to accommodate the Toyota factory tour (which does not open on weekend). If I put it toward the tail-end, it would fall on Sat and Sun.
I too am concern about possible late flight arrival and mess up the train trip to Nagoya that night. I might stay in Osaka that night and then some. Need to think about this.
I am always fascinated by the electronics shops (Akihabara in Tokyo as example). I love to check out the latest widgets as part of my market research for semiconductors (my profession). Am also a photography buff. I do realize that prices in Japan are not always the most competitive. Often, Japan has the most advanced products on the market before they show up in the states. Here is a link I found on Yodabashi Camera, http://www.kansaijapan.com/20060805/...hi-camera.html
I do want to stay a few days in each city in order to get a flavor of the local environment.
mrwunrfl,
Reasons for staying in Osaka are for convenience (like 2 nites before departure from KIX), short distance to Nara and Himeji for day trips. Besides, do want to check out the electronics stores there. Regarding JR pass, you are probably right that a 4-day pass should work out fine. If I need more, can always get another 3-day pass. I need to do the math to see if rail pass present an advantage or not.
For these days trips by train, do I need to be concern about rush hour traffic when trains are overflowed with passengers? Any advice?
Reason for my wanting to get to Nagoya upon arrival at KIX was due to trying to accommodate the Toyota factory tour (which does not open on weekend). If I put it toward the tail-end, it would fall on Sat and Sun.
I too am concern about possible late flight arrival and mess up the train trip to Nagoya that night. I might stay in Osaka that night and then some. Need to think about this.
I am always fascinated by the electronics shops (Akihabara in Tokyo as example). I love to check out the latest widgets as part of my market research for semiconductors (my profession). Am also a photography buff. I do realize that prices in Japan are not always the most competitive. Often, Japan has the most advanced products on the market before they show up in the states. Here is a link I found on Yodabashi Camera, http://www.kansaijapan.com/20060805/...hi-camera.html
I do want to stay a few days in each city in order to get a flavor of the local environment.
mrwunrfl,
Reasons for staying in Osaka are for convenience (like 2 nites before departure from KIX), short distance to Nara and Himeji for day trips. Besides, do want to check out the electronics stores there. Regarding JR pass, you are probably right that a 4-day pass should work out fine. If I need more, can always get another 3-day pass. I need to do the math to see if rail pass present an advantage or not.
For these days trips by train, do I need to be concern about rush hour traffic when trains are overflowed with passengers? Any advice?
Feb 3rd, 2007, 10:29 PM
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We have never found crowds on the longer distance trains to be terrible...but we have experienced quite crowded subways and local trains. If you can get seat reservations then crowds will not be a concern. If you can't get reservations, you can still ride the train, just in the non-reserved cars, which can get crowded.
Since Nagoya is not a long trip from Osaka, and you want to go for the Toyota tour, you could stay the night in Osaka and take an early train...you'll be awake anyway.
You do know you must reserve the Toyota plant tour, and if you aren't with a group, what you can see is more limited? http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/about_toy...an/plant_tour/ It is about an hour from Nagoya station on the Meitetsu (private railway) line. You could leave Osaka around 7:30 - 8:00 AM and be in Toyotashi in time for the 11:00 general (not chartered bus) tour.
There are plenty of electronics stores in Japan, that's for sure. You don't need to stay in Osaka for that, Kyoto has plenty of them too. The big chains include Yamada Denki and Joshin as well. Prices tend to be very good for the Japan market, and high for the export/tax free market in my experience. If you buy, be sure you understand the warranty/guarantee clearly including where it is valid...Japan market goods have no guarantee/warranty for use outside of Japan.
It is just as convenient, or more convenient, to stay in Kyoto the night before a KIX departure. The Haruka train originates in Kyoto, stops in Shin Osaka but not Osaka station, and makes a couple of more stops before getting to KIX. If you are in Osaka, you will either have to go to Shin Osaka to get the Haruka, or take another slower and less nice traint or use the limousine bus (we always use the bus from the Hilton actually). Many hotels in both Kyoto and Osaka have limo bus service. Shin Osaka is not a pleasant place to stay...it's basically a station town built up for the shinkansen, with lots of business hotels and bars. It's not particularly nice, we stayed there once, and only once, on the way home one trip, and since then have stayed in Osaka (or Nagoya or Tokyo, depending on the airport we use).
Since Nagoya is not a long trip from Osaka, and you want to go for the Toyota tour, you could stay the night in Osaka and take an early train...you'll be awake anyway.
You do know you must reserve the Toyota plant tour, and if you aren't with a group, what you can see is more limited? http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/about_toy...an/plant_tour/ It is about an hour from Nagoya station on the Meitetsu (private railway) line. You could leave Osaka around 7:30 - 8:00 AM and be in Toyotashi in time for the 11:00 general (not chartered bus) tour.
There are plenty of electronics stores in Japan, that's for sure. You don't need to stay in Osaka for that, Kyoto has plenty of them too. The big chains include Yamada Denki and Joshin as well. Prices tend to be very good for the Japan market, and high for the export/tax free market in my experience. If you buy, be sure you understand the warranty/guarantee clearly including where it is valid...Japan market goods have no guarantee/warranty for use outside of Japan.
It is just as convenient, or more convenient, to stay in Kyoto the night before a KIX departure. The Haruka train originates in Kyoto, stops in Shin Osaka but not Osaka station, and makes a couple of more stops before getting to KIX. If you are in Osaka, you will either have to go to Shin Osaka to get the Haruka, or take another slower and less nice traint or use the limousine bus (we always use the bus from the Hilton actually). Many hotels in both Kyoto and Osaka have limo bus service. Shin Osaka is not a pleasant place to stay...it's basically a station town built up for the shinkansen, with lots of business hotels and bars. It's not particularly nice, we stayed there once, and only once, on the way home one trip, and since then have stayed in Osaka (or Nagoya or Tokyo, depending on the airport we use).
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:43 PM
#12
Shopping in Osaka and staying in a different location are generarl reasons for staying in Osaka. I assume you would stay at a place near Osaka station or a different station in the city, not Shin Osaka.
Osaka would be more convenient to Himeji. The JR local that you would use with the Kansai Area Pass from Kyoto to Himeji goes through Osaka station. Leaving from Kyoto would add 30 minutes each way to the trip. I don't know if that is worth moving from Kyoto to Osaka. The travel time is about the same, on JR locals, from Kyoto or Osaka to Nara. And you could take a limo bus from your Osaka hotel to KIX.
The reason I asked "why Osaka?" is because most tourists just stay in Kyoto and don't go to Osaka. But you've provided a specific reason for going to Osaka: Yodobashi Camera. According to your link: "This is a definite place for any gaijin (foreigner) to check out while in Osaka, Japan."
No you don't need to be concerned about rush hour traffic. No concern about the trains at rush hour, unless you freak out in crowds. The trains don't overflow, the pax get packed in tight and neat and bathing is a big deal over there. But seriously, the only concern I can think of is if you have a physical reason why you can't stand up for a time on a train (20 minutes?). Actually, if you are boarding trains at Osaka station or Kyoto then you have a relatively good chance of getting a seat because there is a big exchange of pax at those origin/transfer stations.
So why not fly into Nagoya and out of Osaka?
Osaka would be more convenient to Himeji. The JR local that you would use with the Kansai Area Pass from Kyoto to Himeji goes through Osaka station. Leaving from Kyoto would add 30 minutes each way to the trip. I don't know if that is worth moving from Kyoto to Osaka. The travel time is about the same, on JR locals, from Kyoto or Osaka to Nara. And you could take a limo bus from your Osaka hotel to KIX.
The reason I asked "why Osaka?" is because most tourists just stay in Kyoto and don't go to Osaka. But you've provided a specific reason for going to Osaka: Yodobashi Camera. According to your link: "This is a definite place for any gaijin (foreigner) to check out while in Osaka, Japan."
No you don't need to be concerned about rush hour traffic. No concern about the trains at rush hour, unless you freak out in crowds. The trains don't overflow, the pax get packed in tight and neat and bathing is a big deal over there. But seriously, the only concern I can think of is if you have a physical reason why you can't stand up for a time on a train (20 minutes?). Actually, if you are boarding trains at Osaka station or Kyoto then you have a relatively good chance of getting a seat because there is a big exchange of pax at those origin/transfer stations.
So why not fly into Nagoya and out of Osaka?
Feb 4th, 2007, 02:42 PM
#13
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Kim & mr,
Thanks for offering so much more possibilities re logistics. I am taking them all in. Good to learn that crowd may not be such an issue. In past years, I had endured many rides on Tokyo’s subway during rush hours (without luggage though). It was not too bad.
1.Re the Toyota factory tour - I was aware of advance reservation requirement, but the web link has spelled out more specificity (however regret that the “Toyota Kaikan Calendar” link is not working). Thank you Kim for the Toyota link though.
2. Your heads-up about warranty issues for electronic products purchased in Japan is well taken. Will keep that in mind while I am shopping. Am looking for a DSLR (possibly Nikon D80) and some lenses. Will definitely do some comparative shopping.
3. From KIX to Kyoto (and reverse) by train – is there a stop at Shin Osaka Station involving a train transfer; or is it the same train for the entire journey? I guess I still have problem in interpreting hyperdia search results.
4. Thinking booking the New Otani Hotel in Osaka. Concern about its location in relations to train/subway stations. From map, I see 2 stations close-by, with a 3rd a bit farther. Is there a line that links directly (w/o transfer) to Shin Osaka Station from the New Otani? (Is that the JR Loop Line? For location, Hilton is tops for being next to Osaka Station; but I really like the N.O. hotels).
5. Are there colorful local markets (arts and crafts) worth visiting in Osaka, Kyoto or Nagoya? Welcome any web links.
6. mr, our air tickets are quite involved with many stops throughout SE Asia in addition to Japan (Japan being last stop before returning home). By picking KIX as arriving and departing airport save some money and transit time. More importantly, it keeps us in our preferred frequently fly program too. Otherwise, I would consider flying into one city and out the other as suggested, definitely a bit more convenient.
7. About day trip from Osaka to Himeji – assume early start (8:30AM-ish), and 1 hour train each way; 4 hours Himeji visit (includes time for lunch), there should be time for a stop at Kobe (or Shin Kobe)? Is the waterfront worth making a stop in Kobe? (assume by then, we would be over-dosed with castles, temples, shrines etc…)
8. About 4-day Kansai Area Pass – use it on consecutive days or it will simply expire after 4 days? Right?
Sorry for the lengthy post. Looking forward to your sharing of your travel experiences. Thanks
Thanks for offering so much more possibilities re logistics. I am taking them all in. Good to learn that crowd may not be such an issue. In past years, I had endured many rides on Tokyo’s subway during rush hours (without luggage though). It was not too bad.
1.Re the Toyota factory tour - I was aware of advance reservation requirement, but the web link has spelled out more specificity (however regret that the “Toyota Kaikan Calendar” link is not working). Thank you Kim for the Toyota link though.
2. Your heads-up about warranty issues for electronic products purchased in Japan is well taken. Will keep that in mind while I am shopping. Am looking for a DSLR (possibly Nikon D80) and some lenses. Will definitely do some comparative shopping.
3. From KIX to Kyoto (and reverse) by train – is there a stop at Shin Osaka Station involving a train transfer; or is it the same train for the entire journey? I guess I still have problem in interpreting hyperdia search results.
4. Thinking booking the New Otani Hotel in Osaka. Concern about its location in relations to train/subway stations. From map, I see 2 stations close-by, with a 3rd a bit farther. Is there a line that links directly (w/o transfer) to Shin Osaka Station from the New Otani? (Is that the JR Loop Line? For location, Hilton is tops for being next to Osaka Station; but I really like the N.O. hotels).
5. Are there colorful local markets (arts and crafts) worth visiting in Osaka, Kyoto or Nagoya? Welcome any web links.
6. mr, our air tickets are quite involved with many stops throughout SE Asia in addition to Japan (Japan being last stop before returning home). By picking KIX as arriving and departing airport save some money and transit time. More importantly, it keeps us in our preferred frequently fly program too. Otherwise, I would consider flying into one city and out the other as suggested, definitely a bit more convenient.
7. About day trip from Osaka to Himeji – assume early start (8:30AM-ish), and 1 hour train each way; 4 hours Himeji visit (includes time for lunch), there should be time for a stop at Kobe (or Shin Kobe)? Is the waterfront worth making a stop in Kobe? (assume by then, we would be over-dosed with castles, temples, shrines etc…)
8. About 4-day Kansai Area Pass – use it on consecutive days or it will simply expire after 4 days? Right?
Sorry for the lengthy post. Looking forward to your sharing of your travel experiences. Thanks
Feb 4th, 2007, 03:19 PM
#14
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3. The Limited Express Haruka train from KIX to Kyoto makes 2 or 3 stops (forget) before reaching Kyoto. One of those stops is Shin Osaka. This train does NOT stop at Osaka station, so if that is your destination, it involves a change of train at Shin Osaka to backtrackt about 3 minutes to Osaka. OR, take the limo bus instead.
4. Access to the New Otani by train from Shin Osaka seems to involve a change in Osaka. The Japanese website indicates it is a 3 minute walk from either of the two stations you see on the map. Also indicates it is 25 minutes by car from Shin Osaka and 15 minutes by car from Umeda (where the Hilton and Osaka station are).
5. Between the Hilton and Osaka Station there is a pedestrian overpass which often has musicians and people selling stuff at night. The police periodically clear this out, though.
In Nagoya, the Sakae area is the main shopping area. In big cities like Osaka, Kyoto and Nagoya, the stations are also shopping centers with many restaurants and shops.
4. Access to the New Otani by train from Shin Osaka seems to involve a change in Osaka. The Japanese website indicates it is a 3 minute walk from either of the two stations you see on the map. Also indicates it is 25 minutes by car from Shin Osaka and 15 minutes by car from Umeda (where the Hilton and Osaka station are).
5. Between the Hilton and Osaka Station there is a pedestrian overpass which often has musicians and people selling stuff at night. The police periodically clear this out, though.
In Nagoya, the Sakae area is the main shopping area. In big cities like Osaka, Kyoto and Nagoya, the stations are also shopping centers with many restaurants and shops.
Feb 4th, 2007, 10:19 PM
#15
3) The JR Ltd Exp Haruka trains stop at Shin Osaka station on the way from Kansai Airport station to Kyoto station.
There are other trains that can be used from the airport to Kyoto but I think they all involve at least one transfer.
At hyperdia you may have seen a transfer from a Haruka train at Shin Osaka because it can be FASTER to change trains!
At hyperdia do a query for Feb 5, departure time 20:16. Start point is Kansai Airport and Desination of Kyoto. Include Nozomi.
In the query results, "The first course" is a Haruka departure from Kansai at 20:16 arrives Shin Osaka at 21:07. You have 11 minutes to catch
There are other trains that can be used from the airport to Kyoto but I think they all involve at least one transfer.
At hyperdia you may have seen a transfer from a Haruka train at Shin Osaka because it can be FASTER to change trains!
At hyperdia do a query for Feb 5, departure time 20:16. Start point is Kansai Airport and Desination of Kyoto. Include Nozomi.
In the query results, "The first course" is a Haruka departure from Kansai at 20:16 arrives Shin Osaka at 21:07. You have 11 minutes to catch
Feb 4th, 2007, 10:31 PM
#16
Accidentally hit post when I wanted to preview, so I will repeat:
In the query results, "The first course" is a Haruka 54 departure from Kansai at 20:16 arrives Shin Osaka at 21:07. You have 11 minutes to catch Nozomi #52 which <b>arrives in Kyoto at 21:31</b>
Ok, now on the row of the table where you see "LTD.EXP HARUKA 54" go over to the Information column and click on the blue "I" on top of the train car. That table shows that <b>Haruka 54 arrives Kyoto at 21:32</b>
So hyperdia is showing the trip with the transfer because it is a minute faster. The Haruka train takes 24 minutes for the trip. The Nozomi can give it an 11 minute head start and still arrive seconds sooner.
In the query results, "The first course" is a Haruka 54 departure from Kansai at 20:16 arrives Shin Osaka at 21:07. You have 11 minutes to catch Nozomi #52 which <b>arrives in Kyoto at 21:31</b>
Ok, now on the row of the table where you see "LTD.EXP HARUKA 54" go over to the Information column and click on the blue "I" on top of the train car. That table shows that <b>Haruka 54 arrives Kyoto at 21:32</b>
So hyperdia is showing the trip with the transfer because it is a minute faster. The Haruka train takes 24 minutes for the trip. The Nozomi can give it an 11 minute head start and still arrive seconds sooner.
Feb 4th, 2007, 10:46 PM
#17
5) I have read about, and seen mentioned on this forum, markets in Kyoto on certain days of the month. Might find more info about these and similar in the other cities at jnto.go.jp
6) sounds like a great trip
8) Yes you would have time to stop in Kobe. I stopped there for a ropeway ride,up to the top of a mountain. Decent views. There is a garden up there and then more gardens on the walk down the hill. I opted to ride down.
You could make a stop at Arima Onsen and enjoy a soak in hot springs. I have not been to that onsen town yet.
Another stop, but farther from Himeji, would be the Okayama where there are famous gardens.
Some people go to Hiroshima for a day trip with a stop in Himeji.
Take a look at a couple of the practical travel guides at the link below. There is one for Himeji, Kobe, ...
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html
I took a peek at the Kobe link on the following webpage and Flower Road in Sannomiya sounded interesting.
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/d...ons/index.html
6) sounds like a great trip
8) Yes you would have time to stop in Kobe. I stopped there for a ropeway ride,up to the top of a mountain. Decent views. There is a garden up there and then more gardens on the walk down the hill. I opted to ride down.
You could make a stop at Arima Onsen and enjoy a soak in hot springs. I have not been to that onsen town yet.
Another stop, but farther from Himeji, would be the Okayama where there are famous gardens.
Some people go to Hiroshima for a day trip with a stop in Himeji.
Take a look at a couple of the practical travel guides at the link below. There is one for Himeji, Kobe, ...
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html
I took a peek at the Kobe link on the following webpage and Flower Road in Sannomiya sounded interesting.
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/d...ons/index.html
Feb 6th, 2007, 08:05 AM
#18
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mrwunrfl,
Thank you for the two posts on 02/05/07. You touched on a question which I have not yet asked - how to read the tables in hyperdia. I appreciate your use of an example, like the first course of a KIX to Kyoto journey. So if I stayed on Haruka 54 without transferring to Nozomi 52, I would have arrived at Kyoto at 21:32 (1 minute behind the Nozomi), right? How should I interpret the "fare" and "charge" columns? "Fare" is what I pay for the ticket, and "charge" is the fee for holding a reservation? I understand one can ride the train without "reservation", is that correct? What is the real difference? First class vs ordinary class?
A JR rail pass does not include Nozomi, is my understanding correct? Which portion of this trip would a JR pass cover?
I think I will plan a stop at Kobe (on return trip from Himeji). Thanks for the links. Does JR stop at Sannomiya Station and not Shin Kobe Station (or both)?
Probably not enough time for the Arima Onsen. Might try one somewhere in Kyoto. I do enjoy gardens, and will look into Okayama and see how I could fit it in.
Thank you for the two posts on 02/05/07. You touched on a question which I have not yet asked - how to read the tables in hyperdia. I appreciate your use of an example, like the first course of a KIX to Kyoto journey. So if I stayed on Haruka 54 without transferring to Nozomi 52, I would have arrived at Kyoto at 21:32 (1 minute behind the Nozomi), right? How should I interpret the "fare" and "charge" columns? "Fare" is what I pay for the ticket, and "charge" is the fee for holding a reservation? I understand one can ride the train without "reservation", is that correct? What is the real difference? First class vs ordinary class?
A JR rail pass does not include Nozomi, is my understanding correct? Which portion of this trip would a JR pass cover?
I think I will plan a stop at Kobe (on return trip from Himeji). Thanks for the links. Does JR stop at Sannomiya Station and not Shin Kobe Station (or both)?
Probably not enough time for the Arima Onsen. Might try one somewhere in Kyoto. I do enjoy gardens, and will look into Okayama and see how I could fit it in.
Feb 6th, 2007, 09:57 PM
#19
Right, you would have arrived JR Kyoto station at 21:32 a minute after the Nozomi. On the search conditions page you can toggle on "excepts Nozomi". This is useful when searching for JR Pass trains because it excludes Nozomi trains. You cannot use a Nozomi train with a JR Pass. I can put it another way: the JR Pass doesn't cover any of the cost of a ride on the Nozomi shinkansen trains.
Note that if you "excepts Nozomi" from the earlier example then the Haruka 54 through train is listed as "The first course".
The full explanation of JR fares is provided at japan-guide.com, but here is a quick lesson on how to read the charges on hyperdia.
Do a query start=shinosaka, destination=kyoto, departure time=20:16 (feb 7, but date doesn't matter much).
The first course is Hikari 428, fare=540, Charge = reserved seat 1990.
The second course is a JR "Rapid" train. Basically it is a run of a local train with fewer stops. The fare is 540. There are no charges. All of the seats on JR locals are unreserved.
On the shinkansen (like the Hikari) and the limited express trains (like the Haruka) they charge the fare plus a supplement. I am pretty sure that it is called a limited express supplement. By supplement they mean surcharge. You have to pay the supplement in addition to the fare on these trains (and the Narita Express, which I think is just another limited express despite it's name)
I forget what the fee is for a reserved seat. It's 500 yen or 700 yen. That's the ballpark, anyway. The reason I forget is because I usually use a JR Pass which covers the reserved seat fee.
<u>The value shown as the "Reserved seat" charge on hyperdia is actually the limited express supplemnt plus the reserved seat fee.</u>
If you got a ticket and a reserved seat on that Hikari you would pay a total of 2530 yen.
If you got a fare ticket without a resreved seat on that Hikari you would pay a total of 2030 yen (or maybe 1830 yen depending on the reserved seat fee).
When you buy a Nozomi ticket there is an additional charge of 200 yen.
The reserved seat fee and the Nozomi fee are fixed. The fare and supplement vary by distance.
The difference between reserved and nonreserved is (basically) just that in the first case you are guaranteed a seat, else you may end up standing. A small additional benefit is that cars with reserved seats are a bit more convenient to the stairs and escalator.
As far as the comparison to first class goes -- economy class is to first class (on a plane) as JR ordinary car is to JR Green car. Actually ordinary car, on the shinkansen and Lex trains, are more like premium economy seats. Don't even bother with the green car unless you have some physical (or emotional or mental!) reason to do so. It's more enjoyable to ride in the ordinary cars, imo. The shinkansen is quite comfortable. Many of the L'ex trains are also comfy (though I think the Haruka is nothing special).
Yes, JR goes to Sannomiya and to Shin Kobe and to Kobe station. Maybe different train, maybe not, but they do. Go to the link that I gave earlier, where I mentioned the practical travel guide for Himeji and Kobe. In the "Kinki" section you'll see a link to the pdf that I wanted you to look at. It will explain a lot.
btw, Kinki (as I understand it) is a new term that the government wants to use instead of Kansai.
If you appreciate the info in the "Himeji, Kobe & Takarazuka" pdf then go back to that link, this link:
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html
and see that there are Osaka, Kyoto, and Nagoya guides. (also, i found the link that I gave to the Sannomiya info by following the Browse by Destinations link on that page.
Note that if you "excepts Nozomi" from the earlier example then the Haruka 54 through train is listed as "The first course".
The full explanation of JR fares is provided at japan-guide.com, but here is a quick lesson on how to read the charges on hyperdia.
Do a query start=shinosaka, destination=kyoto, departure time=20:16 (feb 7, but date doesn't matter much).
The first course is Hikari 428, fare=540, Charge = reserved seat 1990.
The second course is a JR "Rapid" train. Basically it is a run of a local train with fewer stops. The fare is 540. There are no charges. All of the seats on JR locals are unreserved.
On the shinkansen (like the Hikari) and the limited express trains (like the Haruka) they charge the fare plus a supplement. I am pretty sure that it is called a limited express supplement. By supplement they mean surcharge. You have to pay the supplement in addition to the fare on these trains (and the Narita Express, which I think is just another limited express despite it's name)
I forget what the fee is for a reserved seat. It's 500 yen or 700 yen. That's the ballpark, anyway. The reason I forget is because I usually use a JR Pass which covers the reserved seat fee.
<u>The value shown as the "Reserved seat" charge on hyperdia is actually the limited express supplemnt plus the reserved seat fee.</u>
If you got a ticket and a reserved seat on that Hikari you would pay a total of 2530 yen.
If you got a fare ticket without a resreved seat on that Hikari you would pay a total of 2030 yen (or maybe 1830 yen depending on the reserved seat fee).
When you buy a Nozomi ticket there is an additional charge of 200 yen.
The reserved seat fee and the Nozomi fee are fixed. The fare and supplement vary by distance.
The difference between reserved and nonreserved is (basically) just that in the first case you are guaranteed a seat, else you may end up standing. A small additional benefit is that cars with reserved seats are a bit more convenient to the stairs and escalator.
As far as the comparison to first class goes -- economy class is to first class (on a plane) as JR ordinary car is to JR Green car. Actually ordinary car, on the shinkansen and Lex trains, are more like premium economy seats. Don't even bother with the green car unless you have some physical (or emotional or mental!) reason to do so. It's more enjoyable to ride in the ordinary cars, imo. The shinkansen is quite comfortable. Many of the L'ex trains are also comfy (though I think the Haruka is nothing special).
Yes, JR goes to Sannomiya and to Shin Kobe and to Kobe station. Maybe different train, maybe not, but they do. Go to the link that I gave earlier, where I mentioned the practical travel guide for Himeji and Kobe. In the "Kinki" section you'll see a link to the pdf that I wanted you to look at. It will explain a lot.
btw, Kinki (as I understand it) is a new term that the government wants to use instead of Kansai.
If you appreciate the info in the "Himeji, Kobe & Takarazuka" pdf then go back to that link, this link:
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html
and see that there are Osaka, Kyoto, and Nagoya guides. (also, i found the link that I gave to the Sannomiya info by following the Browse by Destinations link on that page.
