MrsMarge

We both listened to all said. We took out Ranthambore and Varanasi. The girls were disappointed; no safari even though they know they won't see a tiger. Hubby noted no train journeys at all - disappointed. I could not cope without seeing Varanasi. The itinerary was just not right - it did not have a good feel to it.

We read some more and talked some more and here's what we came up with:

Hired car/driver from reputable companies (need 2 lots for different areas)
DAY 1 Arrive Delhi 1500hrs. Pick up by driver to Delhi Bed Breakfast (thanks travelaw)
DAY 2 See some of Delhi's sights with car/driver (lcuy suggestions great for girls)
DAY 3 Car/driver leisurely pace to Jaipur to recommended homestay
DAY 4 Arrive for girls to have salwar kameez measured/ have mendhi
DAY 5 Elephant ride to fort.
DAY 6 Leave Jaipur for Ranthambore with drive. Stay at Raj Palace as recommended
by www.Winchcombe.org/ t(his family visitied April, great tips re kids)
DAY 7 Separate am and pm safaris not full day as recommended
DAY 8 As day 7
DAY 9 Car driver take us to Agra via Fatepur Sikri. Stay at Hotel Sheela (book 2 nights)
DAY 10 AM visit to Taj then Fort relax at hotel (hence 2 nights)18.15 train 4863 Varanasi.
DAY 11 Arrive Varanasi 6.05am driver from new company to pick up Palace on River
relax maybe have a walk around with guide or sit on rooftop and take in view
DAY 12 boat trip and walk around with guide
DAY 13 people watching until train 3010 at 16.25 to Kolkata
DAY 14 Arrive Kolkata at approx 6.55am (get our own taxi!) Fairlaw thanks dogster
take it easy
DAY 15 Explore Kolkata meet friends in-laws.
DAY 16 Fly to Port Blair
relax and snorkel in the Andamans until fly back to Kolkata on 24/11/09 for our flight to UK on 27/11/09

We hope that by staying longer in places, keeping sightseeing days separate from travel days, it will be less tiring. Together with the advantage of having a car/driver (the pod to fall back on and look after us as suggested by dogster) we think we can do it!

Whatever happens, we will report back here with the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

OK let rip - what do you think of it now?

Best wishes

MrsMarge

Sorry. I only thanked/mentioned a couple of you but I have taken away even more tips and "to do's" from others. Thanks everyone for your time and effort. Don't be too hard on me now! or we are going on a week's package holiday to Benidorm with the rest of the boring British families - oops now I've upset someone!

dogster

Well, at first sight, that looks wa-a-a-y better. Read spassvogel's recent posts about exactly what to expect at Bandhavgarh. I reckon it's all well paced.

Fairlawn in Kolkata is pretty ordinary but perfect - great location, smack in the middle of everything. You'll be fine there. You'll be streetwise by then - the taxi swarm at Kolkata won't throw you.

Get Palace on River to do transfer to train station in VNS as well. Once again, from there you'll be able to walk everywhere you need in town. Great location. Rooftop restaurant there is probably your best bet for safe food in the area. If there is a big dog there called Bruno, the girls might want to go walking with him in the late afternoon.... DO NOT let them hold the dog's lead.

And remember, everywhere you go you have a secret weapon. Two daughters. Even the most hardened Indian shop-keeper has been known to melt at the sight of cute kiddies. They would have no hesitation in stripping you and your husband of every idiot rupee you've ever earnt in your life - but those sweet girls will win every time.

Train them. Just instruct them to be cute and sob on demand if anything weird happens.

spassvogel

Can't comment on the itinerary as we were mainly focused on to tiger safaris and did only a bit of cuklture.

Just make sure you get an English speaking driver! It's tiring and you miss a lot of info on the sights, people, culture - you know chatting - when the driver is just driving without speaking/understanding

Have a great trip!

SV

PS
"DAY 7 Separate am and pm safaris not full day as recommended
DAY 8 As day 7"

Ask the guide to request the route with the most sightings. During our visit in June it was route ' 4 and 2.
In the afternoon he should try a route where the sightings were in the morning.
During game drives: No communication in between guides/drivers!
It worked with our visit.
In the morning the sightings were in another route. We requested that route for the afternoon and YEPP - we found them!

Just keep your fingers crossed and don't get mad if you miss them. Just be prepared it might happen!

MrsMarge

Thanks dogster. Yes I know of your story with Bruno! I believe you are well remembered there! I have made replies to your stories; in a nutshell a)I know you are denying accusations of you writing professional previously; I know different - you ARE a famous writer just entertaining yourself entertaining folk on here - I just don't know which writer you are (the ones I compare you to are British (sorry ha ha) b)you must get published, it's unfair for people not on this site not to get a chance to read you c) I have printed off your stories for at least 2 other people to enjoy (one guy I work with is off to Wales with your stories!) All the best and thanks again (you know us English and our impeccable manners).

spassvogel

Forgot: When checking out of the park the driver/guide gets aware were the sightings have been and can react accordingly!

Good luck!

SV

MrsMarge

Thanks spassvogel - excellent tip re morning sightings and zones. Common sense approach but not one we would have considered had you not told us. I know mid-November is not the best time for tiger-spotting but it will be our very first safari and that in itself will be exciting.

dogster

lol lol lol Bless you Marge. I'm not sure my stories would appeal to the young ladies with designer hair, large lipstick and uncertain sexual preference that run Australian publishing. As a matter of fact - by the time I get it all written, I'd imagine that publishing as an art form will have disappeared.

Here is an interesting alternative - not for me - but for you. www.blurb.com

I can see an album of the 'Mrs Marge Great Family Adventure' on your bookshelves... check it out.

Craig

If it were me with kids, I'd want to be at some place with tents for a safari not some hotel in Sawai Madhopur. Don't really know what your budget is though - maybe Sher Bagh is out of your range. There are others - do some research. You won't have much input as to where they take you at Ranthambore - just be sure to reserve a couple of jeeps through your lodging (not the cantor buses) in advance.

You can't do a full day safari even if you want to. But if you do choose to do 2 safaris in one day (on both days), you will not have time for anything else. In reality, each 3 hour safari consumes about 4-1/2 hours with transfer to the park and waiting times. You'll barely have time to eat lunch before you have to head out again. You need to have time to visit the fort which the kids will enjoy. It requires 2-3 hours of free time though.

I don't know if Cicerone has chimed in on this but the road from Ranthambore to Agra is really bad unless there have been recent improvements. I suggest taking the train from Delhi to Ranthambore (best way to get there - about 7 hours) followed by easy drive to Jaipur then a very interesting drive to Agra via Fatephur Sikri.

We will be at Palace on the River in February so we look forward to your Varanasi report on this forum.

MrsMarge

I have never seen that and I really like it. Thanks dogster. PS I used to think Stephen Fry would be a great dinner guest but he is univited - you can come dogster, we have great wine here at weekends (actually we have some pretty undrinkable stuff too!!

thursdaysd

Yes, that looks better, and I'm glad to see Varanasi and trains back in! Can't comment on the safari section, as I haven't done it. Did I mention on the other thread that Sarnath is a good half-day trip from Varanasi?

I rather liked the Fairlawn, it is (or was) definitely one of a kind - not luxurious, but a good place to meet other travelers (and NOT just young backpackers). It also had beer on "dry" days...

lcuy

Your trip sounds a lot better now, and you seem to have fit in all your desires.

A few tips and hints from me:

There are no full day trips at Ranthambore. Be aware that the morning rides are at about 6 in the morning and in mid-November it will be COLD! Take mittens, warm jackets, and hats. Ask your hotel for hot water bottles and warm blankets. I also reccommend dust masks or surgical masks. It will get hot and very dusty after the sun climbs, so wear layers that can be peeled.

In theory, your driver is assigned a route, and has no choice. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a way $$ around this. You only get a jeep through the official lottery, although our hotel admitted they sent every employee over to increase their odds of getting jeeps. If you aren't lucky, you'll be on cantors. We had requested two jeep rides when reserving our tent at Sher Bagh, and the hotel offered us two more once we got there. (We took one, but passed on the other.. Unless you have the excitement of spotting a tiger, the rides are pretty rough and tiring.

Varanasi is the one place you really don't want a car. They can't even get to your hotel, or within a block of the river in most spots- (except Assi Ghat, but getting down there along the main street in a car is ridiculous) Have the hotel pick you up. Bring your confirmation in WRITING! and have their phone number, just in case. You can walk or take cycle rickshaws everywhere. A cycle from Palace on the River all the way down to Assi Ghat should cost no more than 50 rupess, even though they'll try to get 150-200. Just tell them 50 and if they won't take it, the next guy will.

Two of my fav restaurants in Varanasi are Bread of Life (try their take on Nachos) and Kerala Kitchen. If you want to buy saris, this is the place. Go into the muslim section about halfway between Main Ghat and Assi Ghat about 1 block off the main road away from the river. on the recco of my daughters local teacher, we bought a couple of really nice ones at Fatima. From my bag, the address seems to be b. 16/67-1 Pandeyhaweli, Madanpura, Varanasi Tel: 2393428

Boat rides should be about 150 to 200 RS per hour. Negotiate hard, since you know this is the right price. When the vendors pull up to your boat, ignore them or tell your 'driver" no. Otherwise he'll happily stop rowing while the vendor tries to sell you stuff. You can get all that stuff in the market for way less RS.

Your kids might like the Mother India temple (Mataji- something) with the huge 3-D map of India. It will take about 20 minutes by cycle rickshaw, and you'll see the more modern side of Varanasi.

I've always heard the ride from Agra to Ranthambore is brutal. That's where I'd take a train if there is one. We did Udaipur-Sawai Modhopur- Delhi all by train, so I'm not sure how it works to get to Agra.

Anyway, have a great trip. I get carried away talking about India!

Craig

Mrs. Marge - looks like we posted at the same time. You'll need to scroll up to see my comments on Ranthambore.

spassvogel

Here some more facts regardiong roads, parks etc - from early/mid June 09:

As I have not read all the commentzs pls just take what you need and ignore anything which doesn't match your itinerary:

Ideal road trip to Ranthambore is via Jaipur. 250ks Delhi-Jaipur, stay overnight or 2 and roughly 150ks Jaipur Ranthambore.

Train Delhi Ranthambore: leaves around 19.30pm and arrives (if you are lucky ;-) ) at around midnight. Hotel picks you up and they wait because they know the train comes on "Indian time". First class sleeper A/C double compartment was around 50€ or so. CHEAP in our terms! And quite comfortable (and interesting). Provided fresh linens, pillows etc. and the conductor wakes you up 15 min prior to arrival! Just ask him!

Bandhavhgarh does full day visits allow but you jave to applay in advance and provide some proof that you are a "professional photographer". Pay 10000 INR (approx. 150€) for that license. But it has to be requested far in advance via your hotel! But think whether you need one under the circumstances/restrictions - see below.
The full day means: You do the drives as anybody else but have got the right to stay at "centre point" for the time in between opening times. To get that straight: You cannot drive between opening times! You must remain in the rest area! The advantage would be that you get aware where the tigers are at Centre point before the afternoon crowds arrive.
To us it was not worthwhile to pay that extra money for that little advantage. Being in Centre point did also not appeal to us based on lack of nice resting spots. And - it was HOT HOT HOT / 48°C! So we went for the morning/afternoon drives.
Ranthambore: No option for full day! Just 2 drives/day.

Check what you pay at Ranthambore for a gypsyride in the park. We were asked to pay 3000INR each with 3 more people in the car.
We informed our TA about that and we got the money back.
The rate for the WHOLE car (up to 6 pax) is approx. 4000INR. Don't pay more! And don't accept other people in your car!

Take dust sheet/water protection with you because these Gypsys provide NOTHING except the seat!

Road Ranthambore (I simply cannot get the name of the village into my head) to Agra was quite good. We drove thru tiny villages, watched the country side, traffic was not that bad (in Indian terms ;-) ) and no potholes.
Actually driving is fun - besides some nerv wrecking situations which in the aftermath are as well funny. That gives you a much better idea of the area you are holidaying in. Country life besides the tigers were the highlights of our trip.

Kajuraho - The temples were quite interesting and we got lots of explanations. The explanation were wonderful but by looking at the ornaments self-explanatory ;-)
So if you go with kids the temple visit might lead to some lengthy explanations and discussion after the visit

Agar - I like the city. Similar to other big cities. Make sure you visit the Taj also from "behind" which offers great photo opportunities: In Nov the river is full and so you get excellent reflexions! Whatever it takes - go behind the Taj when the river is full. And go early in the morning and don't miss the sun set. Spend rather an hour waiting than missing!
Don't wear socks at the Taj! It's wonderful to walk barefoot on that marble! At least it was in June.

Take socks with you (in Nov you most probably have them anyway) in order to wear them in Mosques and Temples!

Don't miss the market close to the great Mosque in Delhi. Take a rickshaw and explore.
I bought wonderful handmade paper envelops (thanks to fodorites which pointed that out to me when I opened a thread asking what to buy!), silky kind of bag with fake gems (kitschy but marvelous and unique in our part of the world) for wrapping presents for extremely little money!

If you buy sandwiches at the airport watch the vendor closely because they unwrap in seconds and put it into the microwave. Order immediately that you want the sandwiches WRAPPED!

Take some paper tissues with you wen you need to visit the toilet. There was no paper when we did!

SV

spassvogel

one more thing:
IF you drive Ranthambore-Agra (roughly 6 hrs) ask your driver for a lunch break at "Midway". The name is indication for where it is. Somewhat upmarket Restaurant serving also "Western" dishes; I always jumped on things like toasted cheese/tomato sandwiches because I simply could not stand the Indian flavour 3 times/day on end. They also serve excellent french fries - the best I had in years incl. Africa and Europe! There potatoes taste like ours did ages ago! I would drive there from Agra just to get them once in between all the talli etc.
The curio shop is interesting and has got a broad selection but don't buy there just look and get some ideas. Price tags are more then 5 times as they are in local markets/big market in Delhi! Obviously they dream the numbers and put them onto the price tags next morning ;-)

Enjoy your India experience!

SV

Nywoman

Though Hotel Sheela has a marvelous location it is very simple,and when we were there had no hot water in the showers.
This may have changed as it was 2 years ago, but I doubt it.

When in Agra don't miss the small Taj Mahal it is very lovely and I preferred it.

MrsMarge

Craig - thanks, Bagh is out of our range and some reviews say the tents are too close to the road and not great. We will do some more research. We will report back re hotel in Varanasi.

lcuy, I'm grateful to you for getting "carried away" keep these tips/advice coming. I am making plenty of notes based on your information and find it really helpful.The info re costs really helps too.

Spassvogel, thanks for the info. We are booking the safaris direct rather than through the hotel. We will make a point of taking photos from behind the Taj; I never did that 20 years ago and missed out. Thanks also for the tip re Midway, sounds good.

Nywoman. I hope Hotel Sheela will be ok; we are only staying purely for location. Will miss the hot water though if there isn't any. Will be sure to visit "baby" Taj.

lcuy

We just loved Sher Bagh , so I can't let the comment about the tents pass: the admin building is set back from the road by about 20 yards, and the tents are well behind that. Not to mention, it is a dirt road and the only cars are those going to the Aman resort next door!

It was a wonderful place to stay. Comfy, old fashioned tents with iron beds, Steamer trunk tables, gorgeous bath all in marble and copper. Each tent had a porch with rocking chairs where they would bring you tea in the morning or afternoon, along with hot water bottles at night. The food is mostly organic, grown on the property - English Breakfast in the garden, Italian lunch, and Indian dinner by candlelight. The staff was very kind and helpful.

It wasn't cheap, but I felt it was well worth the money, even more since they were able to get so many jeeps.

MrsMarge

When booking a tour company (car and driver and a couple of hotels) is it usual to send them monies in advance? (This has been requested but no amount as yet) If so,how much? I assumed that payment is made when you arrive in India and meet them for the first time. Thanks in advance of your comments.

lcuy

More tour companies are now asking for deposits up front and balance when you arrive or when you're done. I think 20% used to be normal, but have read recently of being asked to send 50%.