jlaughs

I posted this at the end of my previous thread about Kyoto, Nara & Himeji, but thought I would just start a new thread.
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Okay all, I've been working on this and I think I've got a tentative plan. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this:

DAY 1 - Arrive in Kyoto @ either 11:43a or 12:43p (depending on how early we get up and leave Tokyo). Nijo Castle and Nishiki Market for the day/evening, Gion in the evening, Gion Corner performance at 7:40p or 8:40p.

DAY 2 - Kinkaku-ji, Ryoan-ji, Arashiyama (Bamboo groves, Iwatayama Monkey Park, Togetsu-kyo bridge to watch cormorant fishing).

DAY 3 - Nara, Fushimi Inari, some night shopping area? (Teramachi Dori?)

DAY 4 - Sanjusangen-do, Kiyomizu-dera, Kyoto Handicraft Center

DAY 5 - Himeji Castle, then proceed to Osaka

As you can see, I've eliminated Ginkaku-ji and the Kyoto Imperial Palace. I'm still undecided whether to leave the palace in and take out the monkey park. We've both been to Lopburi in Thailand, which is not a monkey park, but a monkey experience nonetheless.

I also didn't specifically plan for the Philosophy Path, but if we do go, it would have to be the evening of Day 4. We will be staying at Yoshi-Ima that night, so I'm thinking that we may want to just stay in for the evening.

Thanks for your thoughts.

btw, is there a way to find out the actual train schedules for July and August yet? I've been using hyperdia.com and just putting in an arbitrary date in June that corresponds to the same day of the week that we'll be traveling (for example, we'll be traveling from Tokyo to Kyoto on August 3, which is a Thursday, so I used June 22 on hyperdia). I think (I'm not absolutely certain) that emd mentioned having a printout of the train schedules. emd (or whoever this was that mentioned this), if I'm right, where were you able to get this? Did you just wait until your dates were available on hyperdia?

Thanks,
Judy

jlaughs

I just came across the post by emd about taking a paper JR train schedule with her, which she obtained from the JR NY office. I've found their website, so I'm going to see if I can request a schedule.

Thanks.

emd

Judy: Check your inbox- you'll have email from me in a minute.

mrwunrfl

The train schedules don't vary that much and with the time window you have (plus/minus a half hour) you really don't need one. There are Hikari trains leaving Tokyo every half hour heading to Kyoto. You are correct to specify the right day of the week (weekday vs Fri-Sat- Sun or Holiday).

The same thing applies for Kyoto to Shinosaka on the shinkansen though it would be more frequent because the Kodama would be useful in addition to the Hikari (which came from Tokyo).

For the Himeji trip, you have even more frequency. Between 6AM and 11AM (when I assume you will be travelling south) you have 20 shinkansen trains to choose from and two limited express trains. That's about 4 per hour.

English language shinkansen schedules are available at JR stations. They are more handy than the all-Japan Railway Timetable.

The shinkansen schedule is all you need and you can get it in Japan. If you decide to get it before you leave then ask for both schedules when you contact JR.

On the current schedule I see you have a third option between the two you mentioned for a Hikari from Tokyo to Kyoto:
depart arrive
09:06 11:43
09:36 12:20
10:06 12:43

On the 2001 schedule, you could:
depart arrive
<b>09:07 11:47</b>
09:21 12:00
09:28 12:07
<b>09:38 12:24</b>
09:45 12:31
<b>10:07 12:47</b>

This was 5 years ago and they have reduced the Hikari frequency, but the three departures on the schedule now have corresponding departures 1 or 2 minutes different (the three in bold).

mrwunrfl

By both schedules, I mean the Japan Railway Timetable and the Tokaido &amp; Sanyo Shinkansen timetable.

japanfreak

Personally I would skip Sanjusangendo &amp; do Ginkakuji - I think it's gorgeous despite what other posters say. I would go there again in a heartbeat. The gardens are serene &amp; beautiful and the temple doesn't have all the glitz of Kinkakuji.

emd

I really like having the paper schedule before I go. It saves me from dealing w/the quirks of hyperdia (and the times when it is down for maintenance) and I like to know when the next train is if my schedule changes, esp. the trains going towards departure airport like NEX, which are more sensitve on the way to departure than other trains during the stay. It also helps to know what the last train is that you can take and still get to your destination at night (eg leaving Hiroshima to return to Kyoto or Shin-Osaka) and making the tight connections. That is just me.

That said, it is not all that easy getting the paper schedule before you go.

angethereader

I agree with japanfreak - would see Ginkakuji again and skip Sanjusangendo.
I think my son would do the reverse.
Sanjusangendo was more unique, Ginkakuji so beautiful. We spent 3x as much time at Ginkakuji, and it was not very crowded.
Just my 2 cents.

cwn

Your trip sounds wonderful. You have a good plan. I would not worry too much about the train schedule. See my post on your old thread for our train trips.

I used Hyperdia the way you are doing. Made a list of the time/train options for our itinerary, and double checked when we arrivied in Japan. There were no changes. See our day plans on your other thread. In fact, I bought all our train tickets on my list, the night we arrived in Kyoto. The station schedule was easy to read and the understanding between me and the agent was not a problem. We even exchanged our return ticket for an earlier time, as we got back to the station about 30 mins early, the day we went to Himeji and points south. Needles to say I speak/read no Japanesse.

My only other suggestion is about the Imperial Palace, If you even think you might like to go the Imperial Palace you ought to go to the web site and reserve tickets as soon as possible.

To me it looks like you might could work it in on day 1 or 4. It would take less than two hours to get there from another site, do the tour, and get to the next site. On Day 4, you should difinitely do Kiyomizu, first thing when it opens anyway. This is a beautiful Temple and very popular. By 9:30 it is packed with teenaged school gruops and tour groups. This makes it very hard to see everything.

The Palace and grounds are a very beautiful and interesting place with a good, small English guided tour. It will fit well from the historial point of view, with seeing Himeji and Nijo also. You can print the pass out in line, you pay at the door. Then if you want to go you will have the entrance ticket and not waste time going early, stand in line to try to buy a ticket and risk not being able to get one.

If on the set day, things don't work out you can just skip it. There is always a waiting line to buy the no show tickets.

Have a great trip!

moxie

The palace is visited ONLY by group tours at 10am and 2 pm on the days listed on their internet site. We were part of a HUGE group. The tour was ok but you should know that you only see the outside of the buildings and courtyards.

We only walked and took buses and everything took a long time in Kyoto: lines for buses, admission tickets, etc.

Ginkaku-ji and the philosopher's walk are lovely; try to include them.

cwn

That is right, here are only two English tours of the Imperial Palace a day, but there were only 15 in our group and we were thr only group on the huge grounds, you can not go in the buildings. But the day we were there, some of the doors were open for a peak in side. Guess it is not for every one, but glad we went as it was an interesting insight to the culture.

We had been told not to plan to do too much in a day because it would take us a long time to get around. Plus there would be tons of people. Yes, there were loads of people at the popular sites, especially if we were there after 10 and before 4. So try to visit the popular temples etc when they first open or near closing-the group tours and school tours will be gone. Didn't find the admission lines long at all, didn't ride buses, actually they didn't seem to convient to us, so we just used our feet, the metro and taxis.

Mara

cwn - You were pretty lucky with your Imperial Palace tour - I think there must have been at least 50 the morning I did it in early April....Also I recommend Sanjusangendo - that was one of my Kyoto highlights....very spiritual and I am not religious

jlaughs

Thanks for all of your feedback. I haven't been online for the past couple of days, so what a nice surprise.

emd, thanks for your email.

mrwunrfl, I'm wondering where you found that 3rd option for train times. Was is on hyperdia? I must have missed it.

My original thought was to go to from Tokyo to Nara (with maybe a brief stop to drop off our carry-on luggage at the Granvia). This seemed like a good plan until I remembered that we'll be in Kamakura the day before and I'm trying to not schedule back-to-back similar experiences to avoid overload (and therefore resulting in less appreciation). Maybe my thinking is flawed here?

Then, I thought we'd try to go directly to the Imperial Palace when we arrive in Kyoto as we would be in time for the 2p tour, but then I realized that if we did this, we wouldn't have enough time for both Nijo Castle and Nishiki Market before closing. So, between the three, I decided I had to eliminate one and Nijo Castle and Nishiki Market sound more up our alley.

I am still wondering if it would be worth eliminating the monkey park and replace it (time-wise) with the Imperial Palace. We could go to the palace for the 10a tour on Day 2, then go to Kinkaku-ji, Ryoan-ji and head over to Arashiyama for the bamboo groves and the night fishing. Would this be a better plan?

Also, are there any other areas in which to shop and stroll around at night other than Teramachi Dori? It seems that I've read conflicting information about Kyoto's &quot;nightlife&quot;, but I can't seem to find any of this information now. btw, we're not drinkers, so bars and such are of no interest to us.

I'm also conflicted about Sanjusangen-do versus Ginkaku-ji. I think I'd really like to go to Sanjusangen-do, but don't want to discount the opinions and advice of others who have already been. Is there anyway that anyone can see that I could fit Ginkaku-ji into our schedule without having to eliminate Sanjusangen-do?

Thanks again all!!

mrwunrfl

I saw it on hyperdia, viewing the daily schedule there. It is also listed on the shirt-pocket sized shinkansen English sked you can get in Japan.

No, your thinking is not flawed on that question.

Barkinpark

I would add a side trip to Kibune and Kurama. These small towns are in northern Kyoto and are within walking distance to each other. The temples and shrines there are amazing. In summertime, restaurants put out tatami mats over the rive bed so diners can chill out, dine right next to small waterfalls, and hear the sounds of running streams. It's a quintessential zen Kyoto experience.

I think these sites may be helpful:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3933.html
http://www.pref.kyoto.jp/visitkyoto/.../09/index.html

PaoloCast

We walked from Ginkakuji down the Philosopher's Path to Nanzenji Temple. It's okay: a nice path along the stream: some coffee shops, one or two galleries, a restaurant or two - but a pleasant way to get from one site to another - not a destination - especially since you've eliminated Ginkakuji. But Nanzenji Temple is terrific, so unless you simply looking for a good walk, I'd suggest heading for Nanzenji.