Robert_Brandywine

Meiji Shrine is included in the Tokyo Tour. It was our favorite stop on the tour, so we don't mind repeating for the other couple.

The half-day Nara tour is the only tour I've taken where I was actually angry afterward. We had so little time on-site, we just were able to get to the last building, look around for 5 minutes, and then rapidly walk back to catch the return bus. I'd definitely do a full day tour if we repeat that.

What do you mean the timing isn't good for a day trip to Nikko or Hakone?

mrwunrfl

timing- am thinking of foliage and flowers and of weather

mrwunrfl

>>Thoughts on that?
you really can/could/should keep Nara. Being angry or disappointed after going to Nara means that you really didn't visit there. You can do it on your own and take your time.

BigRuss

I maybe a bit late to this game, but came to answer this:

<<What about Himeji and Osaka Castles? Would you recommend both as day trips from Kyoto, or transfer to Osaka to do them? Is Osaka a nice place?>>

These are easily done in a day trip from Kyoto. Himeji Castle will take a 1/2 day, maybe a touch more if you visit the gardens. Osaka Castle is a rebuild but it is more notable as a museum for information regarding the Tokugawa shogunate, especially its origins.

Osaka is what it is - basically a smaller Tokyo. It is not for " temples, shrines, castles, onsens, and little restaurants off the beaten track" - Kyoto is better for that.

Kathie

I think you have discovered why most of us here do not recommend tours. Were you on a tour in Kyoto that just drove you around? So on your previous trip, it sounds like you went to both Kyoto and Nara (on a tour) and were deprived of the opportunity to see/experience either one. And I'd recommend you skip the bus tour of Tokyo as well. Frankly, it will be a waste of your time.

I recommend that you utilize Japan guide and decide which temples/areas interest you most. Then you can plan your time in Kyoto.

russ_in_LA

Using your original plan as a starting point, and based my impressions from two 2-week trips, I would suggest something like this:

Tokyo - 5 nights - day trip to Nikko and Hakone
Kyoto - 5 nights - day trip to Nara
Shikoku - 3 nights
Himeji - 1 night (Skip Osaka. If you only see one castle, Himeji is THE one. See the gardens next door as well) This will break up the long trip from Shikoku to Takayama.
Takayama - 2 nights, stop at Shirakawago enroute to Kanazawa
Kanazawa 3 nights
Tokyo - Last night if flying back from Tokyo

The above will makes for a varied and appealing trip, but possible additions depending on your tolerance for moving around:

Koyansan - 1 night in a Buddhist temple - it doesn't get much more traditional than this. I recommend the Hanare (a stand alone traditional building that sleeps 4) at Shojoshin-in temple.

https://japaneseguesthouses.com/ryok...n=Shojoshin-in

Miyajima Island - 1 night in an onsen ryokan - I recommend Iwaso ryokan http://www.iwaso.com/english/

Of course, there are a million variations according to one's taste, so do review japan-guide.com for more details.

Robert_Brandywine

I've had many great responses here! I will definitely keep all these things in mind when revising my original itinerary.

Kavey

For another castle option which *might* work en route between Kyoto and Kanazawa, consider Hikone. We were there just one night, and the cherry blossom was in full bloom making our tour of the castle even more enjoyable. There's not much else to Hikone that would place it above other destinations, but if train routing allowed it as a stop-off, it'd be a beautiful castle to visit. It's only about 10 minutes walk or so from the station.

I can't imagine trying to get the best of either Kyoto or Nara from a tour bus - the most beautiful aspects are those smaller roads and alleys that aren't accessible to buses, and the many many many little temples and shrines that you find around an unexpected corner, or squeezed in between shops and houses. The big temples and shrines are amazing too, of course, and I can't imagine seeing these only on a tour bus flyby - half the pleasure is in exploring the areas around them, not just the temple grounds themselves.

For traditional Japan, I think Kyoto is still the best option, and Nara adds a wonderful extra.

Kanazawa and Takayama are lovely, but not substitutes for Kyoto (in my opinion). That said, Takayama has beautiful traditional wooden machiya neighbourhoods, I preferred these and the ones in Kyoto to the various tea districts and samurai district in Kanazawa, though they were pleasant enough. Kanazawa's star attractions for us were Kenrokuen, the food / fish market and a small museum of traditional puppets, clockwork models and puzzle games in the port area.

kawh

ttt

Boveney

I totally get preferring Tokyo over Kyoto though I realise that amounts to heresy on this board! (I'm considering starting a whole new thread on that subject but not sure I have the guts. It's all individual preference after all though I always suspect the Kyoto Team hasn't understood how to access Tokyo fully).

In any case, you will have a memorable trip - end March/early April - perfect season but high season so you need to nail down reservations as much in advance as possible and you're doing exactly the right thing, planning now.

Re castles: the most famous 'white castle' in Japan is Himeji and the most famous 'black' is Matsumoto. I've been to Matsumoto twice and last week visited Himeji for the first time since the 2015 reopening after restoration. Someone upthread has suggested if you do make it to Kanazawa, you might pair that with a trip to Takayama. I'd second the Kanazawa recommendation but suggest pairing it with Matsumoto for the castle, given your interests. And yes, the Osaka castle feels 'fake' through and through. I go to Osaka for business and it's nothing like Tokyo and not worth a stopover in my opinion though a handy airport for an open jaw itinerary.

The fact you are building this trip around meeting friends in Shikoku is wonderful - I'd take their advice as much as possible.
(The other thread I frequently think of starting is 'why do people think Japan guide is the be all and end all of advice for Japan?' But again, I realise that's heresy...!

Mara

Boveney, I agree with you about the preference toward Kyoto seen often on this board....I also really like Tokyo - my problem is that I have not found a fairly inexpensive long-term - one month - lodging there - I don't do Airbnb....

But as far as the helpfulness of Japan-guide, I disagree - I have gotten numerous ideas from that site that have made my 11 trips to Japan more memorable and successful.

The second best, imo, source is the tv station NHK World which if not on someone's cable tv lineup is also available online or as an app....I have visited many places highlighted on various programs over the years...

Boveney

Sorry, I didn't mean to write off Japan Guide entirely, but I treat it as just one of many resources, ie not the be all and end all. The NHK tip is great, Mara!

kja

@ Boveney -- I don't know why you are reluctant to start a thread with your opinions, but FWIW, I find japan-guide.com incredibly helpful and easy to use (although it has flaws, and I have posted about some of them). My next two choices are JNTO and it's "daughter," the out-of-date <i>Japan Solo</i>, which I have also recommended. What I want in a good resource is extremely detailed information about my options and relevant considerations. When I want inspiration while planning a trip, I turn to the glossy-page guidebooks, and find them more than sufficient for my needs. (I envy Mara, who has been fortunate enough to spend so much time traveling in Japan.)

And although I was glad to spend more time in Kyoto than in Tokyo, I try to stress that a choice of how to spend one's time depends on what an OP prefers and wants -- as in this case, where a strong preference was initially stated for "traditional Japan ... temples, shrines, castles."

LuisJp

The three historical cities in Japan are Nara, Kyoto and Kamakura and the three modern cities are Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya. The two outstanding shrines are Ise and Izumo.

However, here I would like to note some historical and also exciting spots:
http://edowonderland.net/en/
http://www.samurai-kembu.jp/
http://www.toei-eigamura.com/en/