thanks for that clarification, mrw. So clbtx1 could stay close to either station, Osaka or Shin-Osaka. Do you know any hotels very close to either one? I know KimJapan has posted on hotels right by those stations in the past.

I see that there is also a Granvia hotel connected to the Osaka JR station, but I checked online and they are completely booked up the night of Nov. 18, Sat.

Thank you everyone so much for your help! Researching for Japan is completely new to me and you have been very helpful.

Since my work is paying for the airfare, I'm reluctant to change what they're paying for. They are paying for me to go to Tokyo for work, not for me to go to Kyoto for fun!

I sent an email to Japanese Guesthouses to see what their availability was. I was a little nervous about the idea of a Ryokan, but after reading their website, it really seems like a wonderful way to enhance your trip to Japan. Plus, most of the places that takes single people do speak English - bonus!

I'm also looking at places in Osaka as a back up and there seem to be a lot of affordable options there, even at the brand name hotels.

If I do end up staying in Osaka, would I then need the JR Pass?

KimJapan likes the Osaka Hilton which I am almost certain is across from JR Osaka station. There are lots of options in Osaka including ones that are near non-JR stations of rail systems that go to Kyoto.

If you were commuting between Osaka and Kyoto then a JR Pass would be good. You would be about breaking even, maybe saving some yen. Thing is that you would be able to take the 3 or 4 minute JR local to Shin Osaka and then catch a shinkansen to Kyoto. The shinkansen takes only around 17 minutes, IIRC. So you would get a better product for about the same price. The JR Pass also gives you the option of staying in Kobe. Shin Kobe is not far from Kyoto by shinkansen.

Fall colors would be at their peak in Kyoto around Nov 18.

I do understand your reluctance to get an open-jaw ticket, but I will just mention the following. Employers usually don't mind an employee getting a ticket like that. Especially when the ticket cost is the same or less (or even a little more). They are paying you to go to Tokyo and that is what you would be doing. And they have to pay to bring you home. Your side-trip would not interfere with your work. Some companies have explicit policies regarding personal side-trips like that.

It will be very tough at this point in time to get a good hotel in Kyoto for the weekend. Your best hope might be JTB.

The Osaka Hilton does have rooms available for your dates, it is directly across the street from Osaka station. We have stayed there and visited Kyoto from there before, and it isn't bad. There are trains every few minutes that go to Kyoto station...just be careful you don't get on a local as it will take an hour or more to make the trip...spend the bit extra on the ticket and take a limited express or any train to shin Osaka then change to a shinkansen.

Your options in Kyoto city for the weekend may be limited to business class hotels, which are not bad...the rooms are small and often smokey smelling, bathroom is tiny, breakfast is expensive and lousy (read go out for breakfast), and there is no service other than room cleaning. For a place to sleep, they are ok, for a vacation, they are a poor choice I think. But they are an option.

Osaka itself is not without interest. There's a park with Gassho houses
http://www3.tky.3web.ne.jp/~edjacob/osaka.htm (saves a trip to Shirakawago) and several other destinations. It's also convenient for getting to Nara (older and, in my opinion, more pleasant than Kyoto). Check out the guides under Kinki at the jnto website:
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html

JTB= Japan Travel Bureau.

http://www.jtbusa.com/enhome/

Hi all... I heard back from Japanese guest houses and they were able to find a room for me at Ryokan Karatachi. It's a single room, but no private bath or toilet. I also have a room on hold at the Granvia Osaka, but I'm not overly thrilled by it as the reviews aren't so good. I'm inclined to take the Ryokan, since it's exactly where I want to be, without needing to travel back and forth a lot. Are any of you familiar with this place? Thanks again for the wonderful advice you've provided!

clbtx1, have you seen the reviews online? It is apparently small (5 rms) and friendly. Here is one from Lonely Planet:

http://tinyurl.com/y8rt9m

If you look at the guest photos on the japanguesthouse website, there is a nice one of the dinner, and also one of the sleeping futons. The futons don't look very thick. That would be the only issue for me, whether I could sleep on them or not. I am a "picky sleeper" though.

I don't know the ryokan but I know the area where it is (Fushimi). It is a bit south of Kyoto proper, about 4 stops and 10 min. by train from Kyoto station on the JR line (one of the few places in Kyoto on the JR line). I loved the Fushimi Inari area. Aside from the famous fox shrine there (which you must see being that close, it is the one with the thousands of red tori gates lined up going up a hillside; you walk under the gates) I liked the area between the train station and the shrine. There are several nice little sushi and udon restaurants there with freidnly owners. It has a very friendly "neighborhood" feel to it, much more quiet and slow than most of the rest of Kyoto. You will be very close to the sake warehouse area of Kyoto, which will be just a stop or two past your stop on the JR train. I really wanted to go to the sake warehouse area after Fushimi Inari Shrine, but just didn't make it.

Judith Clancy has a great section on the Fushimi area and the sake warehouse area in her book (my favorite for Kyoto) called "Exlporing Kyoto: On Foot in the Ancient Capital." Great walking tours in that book, with a lot of insight into the culture, history, architecture. legends and myths of Kyoto. Since you are staying in that area, I recommend checking out her book. It is available on Amazon. It has a great photo of Fushimi Inari shrine on the front of it.

Not only is the Fushima Inari Taisha one of the most interesting sights in Kyoto, but a few stops further south on the same train line is Uji, location of the Byodo-in, one of the most famous and most beautiful buildings in Japan. There are other interesting places in Uji, too, and it's full of historical associations. A bit further on the same line and you get to Nara, which I consider at least as interesting as Kyoto (it was the previous capital). So I suggest exploiting the location of your ryokan and visiting some of these sights as well as the ones in Kyoto itself.

And then south of Nara is Horyu-ji

Hi again everyone. I've been making progress on the details of my trip. So, I'll be staying at the Cerulean Tower hotel in Tokyo, which is near our office, and apparently, near the Shibuya train station.

It looks like i will need to work half a day on Friday, so would want to take an afternoon train to Kyoto. I'm staying at the Ryokan Karatachi in Kyoto.

With everything there is to see, I want to maximize my time in Kyoto, so I want to take a late train back to Tokyo on Monday evening. I'll be staying at the Cerulean Tower again for the one night and then fly home on Tuesday.

EMD - when you say the Ryokan is south of Kyoto proper, is it like being in Brooklyn versus Manhattan proper, or is it further than that?

I'm trying to figure out the train tickets now and I don't know if I need to factor this into my decision of what kind of rail pass to buy.

Thanks again.

It is just a few stops southeast of Kyoto station, 10 min on the train, not far at all. Look at this map. Kyoto station is the little box in the middle with the train lines running thru it. Fushimi area is to the right and down from that station. It is about as far southeast as the Golden Pavillion (Ginkaku-ji) is northeast from Kyoto station.

http://tinyurl.com/yjxgtv

It is a good lcoation, and I would stay there in a minute. Actually, I now have your ryokan bookmarked and would consider staying there in the future.

Stay there- it is definitely better than staying in Osaka and commuting to Kyoto each day IMO. It is an cool neighborhood.

Since you could use the JR line to get to Kyoto station each day you are there (and then bus or subway or walk or cab to other spots in Kyoto you'll be going to from Kyoto Station) you might think it is a closer call re getting the JR pass. But actually, not having the JR pass gives you the option to use Nozomi shinaknsen btwn Tokyo and Kyoto, and that increases your options re numbers and timing of trains to get you back to Tokyo on Monday evening, 11/20. If you have the JR pass, you are going to need to take a HIkari shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo at about 4 pm in the afternoon in order to get to Tokyo at a decent time to check into your hotel for the last night, at least that is what I found I had to do last April, due to the timing of the shinkansens I could take w/the JR pass. I would opt for being able to take a later Nozomi train that last day from Kyoto to Tokyo.

The JR trips a few stops from Fushimi to Kyoto station and back each day won't cost that much. There is also a subway line that runs from Kyoto station to Fushimi.

For some reason I can't get hyperdia.com to give me times for the Nov. 20 JR trains from Kyoto station to Tokyo. I'll find my paper schedule and give you an idea of later Nozomi trains you could take (or can someone else help her by getting the info from hyperdia? For some reason it is telling me it doesn't recognize Kyoto or Kyoto station as a start point).

There are two Hikari trains from Kyoto to Tokyo every hour. The depart on the hour and at ~35 minutes after the hour. The trip taks ~ 2 hours 45 minutes. The last one is at 20:39. The last Nozomi is at 21:32.

hyperdia says that the train from Fushimi to Kyoto is a Kintetsu train, so the JR Pass would not be useful. The only way a JR Pass would be useful for this trip would be if you also used it to take the Narita Express to the airport.

oh, I'm sorry, my trip last April form Kyoto to Tokyo was different as I needed to get from Kyoto to Tokyo and then get the Narita express that same evenign to get to the Narita area to stay in a hotel there for departure the next a.m. You are staying in Tokyo that night, so it is different.

I got the info on Hyperdia; you can take either a 6 pm Hikari (#382) and get to Tokyo at 8:43, or 6:15 Nozomi (#146) from Kyoto and get to Tokyo at 8:33 on Nov. 20. There are other, and later, trains such as: #386 Hikari (8 pm-10:43 pm) or Nozomi #156 (8:15 pm-10:36)

With your daily trips to Kyoto station from Fushimi, it is getting closer to being a wash re getting the JR pass. It is only 200 yen to go from Kyoto station to Fushimi (10 min), so that is 400 yen RT each day. Do that 3 days, 1200 yen. RT shinkansen Tokyo to Kyoto and back is about 26500 (Hikari) to 27000 yen (Nozomi). With your 3 RT trips from Fushimi to Kyoto station = 27700 yen to 28200 yen.

7 day JR pass is 28300 yen. But you lose the Nozomi train options.

mrw, there is both a JR train (the JR Nara line) and a Kinetsu train from Kyoto to Fushimi. I took the JR line to get to Fushimi.

See here:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3915.html

Oh I see, thanks. Need to use Inari station at hyperdia not Fushimi(Kyoto) or Fushimiinari. Only 140 yen each way.

oh, so it is a bit chepaer on the JR line going from Kyoto station to Fushimi and back (140 yen) than it is the same route on the Kinetsu line (200 yen). (Don't forget to put that in the budget Kyoto book!)


Bottom line, for me, I would not get the JR pass. I'd want the additional Nozomi options on the shinkansen btwn Tokyo and Kyoto.

clbtxi, here is a cool thing you might be interested in. It is a sake museum in an old sake warehouse right where you'll be staying in Fushimi.

http://tinyurl.com/yyexsk

and here is something i had bookmarked in my fushimi folder, a good idea for souveniers from Fushimi.

http://www.city.kyoto.jp/koho/eng/preview/21.html

You're going to like this area.

pictures of Fushimi Inari shrine

http://tinyurl.com/y726sk

Are you getting excited yet? I am, and I am not even going.