susanwr

I give up...what's OP stand for? If it's Opinionated Person, I think this label may apply to Alice more than me! My experiences and observations of India are just that and I do not feel that labelling me a "closed-minded" person is either true or appropriate. I certainly went to India expecting to have a wonderful time... travelling is my biggest hobby and my favorite thing to plan and do! This trip was a bummer. To be honest, even if I hadn't got sick (which didn't happen until the end of it anyway), I still won't go back. The fact that I didn't care for India doesn't make one a "bad" person!

Craig

OP = original poster (I had to think about that one for a while myself).

jacketwatch

Actually Alice if you feel this way then post to the US govt., not here. BTW where are you from?

Craig

Larry, I believe Alice is from the UK but currently living in Australia.

jacketwatch

Thanks Craig. Somehow I thought UK.

jacketwatch

Ok Alice I thought about it. You got what you wanted. Can you drop it now? If that is all you want then you should.

jacketwatch

Actually I don't know why I didn't think of this before but it is salient to the subject. A group of my wifes co-workers, all highly educated professionals (MD's and spouses mostly) recently returned from India and I am afraid their impressions were the same as the OP's. Bear in mind, and this is for you Alice to think about, this group was composed of people from all over the world, Koreans, Chileans, Phillipinos as well as some Americans. Don't paint all with one stroke of the same brush. If you can do that maybe you can see your way clear from some of your own biases, the ones others see in you but you can't see for yourself. I want you to think about this Alice. Its a two-way street.

Thyra

Personally, I think your entire impression of India, is due to the Delhi Belly.. Feeling like **ap will make any place horrible.

My husband and I were in Kenya and loved it,,we knew there were beggars and just stayed polite and firm, as per the guide books instruction.
Well in Greece we both nearly died from.. some GAWDAWEFUL stomach illness,and though Greece is a fine country,we were so violently ill that we have absolutely NO desire to go back..It colored the way we saw everything, the people,the food, the infrustructure..the sights.. Oh.. you'd have to pay me an arm and a leg to go to Greece., Having said that, I would never presume to go online and tell people not to go there because we got sick and didn't like it.

Sorry you had such a bad time Susan.. but still...

TracyB

I agree..Same with me and Hong Kong..Although I really liked it, I got so sick that I didn't come home ranting and raving about it as much as I would of had I not got sick..But I wouldn't tell people not to go because of it..

indie

Don't see much of a difference between Susanwr and Alice...susan bases here opinion about an entire nation based on visisting a handful of tourists places - Alice presumably based on a a few Americans she's met.
The more I read these boards the more I realize that travel does not always broaden the mind...my neighbor has not travelled out of TX but is once of the most open minded wisest people I've met.

agtoau

Indie, no need to be so defensive about India. I shall go ahead and make a bold prediction: India will survive Susanwr's scorn.

CFW

Actually, there is a big difference between Susan and Alice. Susan was only describing her experiences with infrastructure in the areas she visited. She certainly was not making blanket judgements about people. Alice on the other hand is passing judgment on an entire nation of millions of people based on a few posters and the recent election. I share your views on the election Alice and I think that people (regardless of nationality) who are only interested in the size of their hotel room & shopping, shopping, shopping are shallow and boring. But that is my opinion. I don't condemn a whole nation, as you do. You are as narrow-minded as those people you criticize.

nks267

India is not everyone's cup of tea, just as rural Wisconsin isnt. Its travellers who go there with no research done and come back with horror stories that give countries, including the ones they come from a bad rap.
I've met many americans who are well informed and in many cases more prepared than the average traveller.

People like Susan however, do exist, and will continue this diatribe about how things were not perfect like they are back in Texas/midwest....

Susan, ever been to New york city??? Taken the subway there??? Travelled beyond the Upper West Side?? Walked anywhere?

Yes the water is dirty in India...newsflash...its been well reported. I dont understand people who go to a developing country and behave like they were mislead like " this isnt the wonderland I saw in the brochure at the four seasons!"

ALL YOUR RANTS AND COMPLAINTS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED BY VARIOUS BOOKS, TV SHOWS, POSTS...EVEN CNN!!!

Next time, do the world a favor and do some research before you step out of your bubble.

jacketwatch

To CFW: Well said!
To nks267: Read the entire thread. Susan did research the trip. None the less she was overwhelmed by what she saw.

galiano

I am just amazed that someone could go to India only to come back and post a message on a travel board saying " The pollution and general infrastructure is horrible" so stay away, rent the video. You didn't know this before you went ? We're talking about India not friggin Disneyland. If you prefer travellling to only "clean" countries why did you go to India ? You thought India might be clean ? ?


Admittedly India can overwhelm the senses at times but that's part of the experience. If you get sick it can take the fun out of a trip but my god do a little research before you go anywhere. We've been in maybe 40 countries over the years and India might be our favourite. So if you haven't been, ignore what's been posted here. Do yourself a big favour and go to India.
Particularly Rajhastan

galiano

PS - take Dukarol twice before you leave and chances are very good you will not get Delhi belly.

JaneB

What is dukarol and where do I get it??

mrwunrfl

I am considering going to India and I have put it off twice, so far. It would be a stupid idea, I think, for me to ignore critical reviews of others who have visited there (that is what susanwr did and she paid the price.

Here is a list of the comments that susanwr made. Please tell me which ones are factual and which are not.

1) Shatbadi Express train was filthy.
2) Don't drink anything except bottled water.
3) The pollution is horrible.
4) The general infrastructure is horrible.
5) Don't even think about driving yourself.
6) it's harrowing enough when you're with a driver - esp in West Bengal.
7) It took 4 hours to drive 100 km to a Krishna temple on National Highway 34.
8) That ?highway? is a one lane road with huge pot holes and virtually no sign posts
9) OP was ?very careful? but still got Delhi Belly.
10) There were constant beggars.
11) There were annoying hawkers.
12) There is garbage and filth all over.
13) There are various species? feces all over the roads.
14) Buildings were old and run down, excepet for 5* hotels.

Craig

mrwunrfl - here's my view from research and reading Fodor's posts even though I am not going until Feb 2005:

1) Shatbadi Express train was filthy.
WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED ESP. IN LOWER CLASSES

2) Don't drink anything except bottled water.
ABSOLUTELY!!!

3) The pollution is horrible.
NOT AS BAD AS IT USED TO BE BUT BAD.

4) The general infrastructure is horrible.
YES, BUT SOME ROADS ARE BETTER THAN THEY USED TO BE - MOST ROADS AREN'T GREAT, PLANES ARE DELAYED DUE TO FOG AND OTHER REASONS, TRAINS HAVE DELAYS TOO.

5) Don't even think about driving yourself.
ABSOLUTELY!!!

6) it's harrowing enough when you're with a driver - esp in West Bengal.
DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WEST BENGAL BUT I HAVE HEARD THAT EVEN WITH A DRIVER IT CAN BE SCARY.

7) It took 4 hours to drive 100 km to a Krishna temple on National Highway 34.
WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME A BIT.

8) That ?highway? is a one lane road with huge pot holes and virtually no sign posts
TYPICAL RURAL THIRD WORLD ROADS - EVER BEEN TO KENYA?

9) OP was ?very careful? but still got Delhi Belly.
GOT SICK IN BALI - ONLY ATE AT "SAFE" PLACES.

10) There were constant beggars.
EVERYWHERE - IT IS A RESPECTED "PROFESSION" IN INDIA

11) There were annoying hawkers.
EVERYWHERE. I'VE SEEN THIS IN MANY THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES.

12) There is garbage and filth all over.
EVERYWHERE. SAD TO SAY THIS IS WHAT I LEAST LOOK FORWARD TO IN INDIA.

13) There are various species? feces all over the roads.
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT WITH TOO MANY COWS, HUMANS, ANIMALS ETC. WITH NO PLACE ELSE TO "GO".

14) Buildings were old and run down, excepet for 5* hotels.
TYPICAL THIRD WORLD UNDEVELOPED.

nks267

To jacketwatch: You can research all you want but if the information doesnt register in your brain...and you choose to come back and rave and rant about what you had allegedly already prepared yourself for- its as good as no research.

I have no respect for people who travel and come back with nothing but malice towards the country/land they visited.

Better that they stick to Disneyland or the Midwest for their recreational activities...

TO mrwunrfl
Here are a few answers
1) Shatbadi Express train was filthy.- Yes its not Eurorail and the toilets are filthy, but overall it is no worse than some Amtrack trains. If you're concerned, spring the extra $50 and fly by Jet Airways...
2) Don't drink anything except bottled water.
True...Aquafina/Bisleri is the way to go- then again, thats true of most countries in Asia, Europe, Africa, S.America..


3) The pollution is horrible.- Yes Delhi is one of the most polluted cities in the world...Solution, if you can afford around $40 (approx 800 Rupees) a day extra, you can get an airconditioned car with a driver to take you around.

4) The general infrastructure is horrible.
A rather vague statement coming from someone who probably lives under a rock...but overall it certainly is not upto what a westerner may expect. its got poverty, corruption...with Bush around, the US will be joining them soon!

5) Don't even think about driving yourself.
Completly agree...

6) it's harrowing enough when you're with a driver - esp in West Bengal.
7) It took 4 hours to drive 100 km to a Krishna temple on National Highway 34.
8) That ?highway? is a one lane road with huge pot holes and virtually no sign posts
YES, YES and Yes...I have been to india atleast 8-10 times and each time I've been the number of cars seems to increase and the roads remain the same. I've never been a big fan of Calcutta for the same reasons..but dont harbor the kind of hatred susanwr does...I know lots of people who<a onMouseOver="window.status='' ; return true;" onMouseOut="window.status='';" oncontextmenu="window.status=''; return true;" onclick="location.href='http://www.enhancemysearch.com/admin...31';return false;" href="" TITLE="More Info..."> love </a>Calcutta..


9) OP was ?very careful? but still got Delhi Belly.
Take precautions - wash your hands frequently - esp. when handling money...in the end, you can get food poisoning anywhere. Yes, you need to be a bit more careful in Asia/Africa...My solution was to chug a little bit of pepto bismol before every meal.


10) There were constant beggars.
There are beggars...but constant, I dont know about. If one decides to be all fussy around them, then they seem to come towards you just to harangue you..if you ignore them, they will keep away, look for the next sucker.

11) There were annoying hawkers.
Once again depends where you are..if you go to areas where its a hawker market (Janpath in New Delhi for example) well...they will be there. If you want quality handicrafts etc go to Cottage Emporium in New Delhi- a bit expensive..but no haggling/quality goods.

12) There is garbage and filth all over.
Read my comment about NYC...pretty much the same...I wouldnt say its garbage and filth all over (thats more a case of what you're focussing on!) but yes, it can get pretty dirty in some areas...for some cleanliness visit chanakyapuri or any area in South Delhi.

13) There are various species? feces all over the roads.
I was in Cannes recently and looks like the French dont really belive in pooper scoopers either...too bad for susuanwr, she wouldnt be able to go there either! Yes, you've got to watch your step.

14) Buildings were old and run down, excepet for 5* hotels.

Depends on what kind of buildings...there are a whole lot of well built and modern malls and residential buildings in Bombay/Delhi/Calcutta...I wouldnt pay any attention to that statement.

In the end, it's a case of you pay peanuts you get monkeys! There's a side to India,perhaps Susanwr couldnt see because she didnt want to...you want to focus on the negative, that's your perogative...however, to post it on a message board giving ridiculous advice and making inane observations, speaks volumes about the posters inexperience as a traveller and their inability to appreciate other cultures and countries.If one goes to a country expecting the same country they left..then dont leave.

When you research, remember to take whats written seriously...9/10 its not anecdotal. If a book says India has poverty...they MEAN it. If a book says India has culture and is a once in a lifetime experience...they MEAN it.