tcreath

DH and I are in the midst of planning our first trip to Southeast Asia and to be honest I'm feeling completely overwhelmed. I don't even know where to begin. I have been looking at websites and reading posts all afternoon, and I think I'm even more confused than I was when I started my research!

Okay, I'll start with the basics. DH and I are in our mid-late 20's. We have traveled quite extensively throughout Europe, but have never been outside the US or Europe (with the exception of Mexico/Canada). We love history, experiencing new cultures, and basically just sighseeing and taking everything in. We are not really foodies, and to be honest I'm quite nervous about the food situation as neither of us eat seafood. Sad but true. We are very picky eaters.

We plan to use our AA frequent flyer miles to get us from St. Louis to SEA. We have about 12 nights. Since this is our first trip, and DH is quite nervous about traveling in Asia (not sure why), we are thinking of staying in three places; Bangkok, Bali and Hong Kong. Is this a good itinerary for our first trip? He said that he would feel better sticking to mainly cities for this trip, and venturing farther out into the countries on our next trip. I've seen things on the beaches in Thailand. Would this be a better option than Bali? I'm also having trouble trying to figure out how to get from Bangkok or Hong Kong to Bali. Then the more I read the more I want to do. I would also love to visit Angkor Wat and DH wants to see Japan and the list goes on...obviously we can't see it all so we are trying to figure out the easiest and most economical itinerary, but its not easy.

I'm sorry if this is a repetetive post. I'm just completely lost! I ordered some travel guides through Amazon, which I'm sure will help, but I haven't received them yet.

Thanks so much!
Tracy

tcreath

Sorry, I forgot that we wouldn't be leaving until October or November of next year (we still have a trip to Croatia coming up in November and an Ireland trip coming up in February). I just want to get a start on the planning of this trip since we will have to book our awards tickets ahead of time.

Thanks!
Tracy
Thanks!
Tracy

Craig

Tracy, I assume then that you intend to go in November 2007 - no problem getting an early start. We travel extensively with ff miles and are used to planning in advance. It is interesting that your dh is more comfortable with cities than the country as like pretty much anywhere else, in Asia traveling in the country is easy whereas newbies in the cities are subject to all of the scams and confusion that you find in cities worldwide. That being said, I think Bangkok, Bali and Hong Kong is too much to do in 12 nights. You could spend all of that time in Thailand, splitting it between Bangkok, a beach area and northern Thailand. Or you could do 12 days in Bali (we did) which is not a city at all. Or if you really must do cities, try splitting your time between Bangkok, Siem Reap (Angkor Wat) and Luang Prabang, Laos. All are relatively close (1-2 hours by air). Post back if you have more questions.

Gpanda

If you look at some of the group tours, Pacific Delight, etc., you'll see that 12 days in Thailand is usually split 4 days in BKK, 3 days in Chiang Mai, 4 days at a beach (Phuket or Krabi in November) and then 1 day back in BKK to leave early in the morning back to the US. This is a good intro to Thailand. You don't need (or want) an organized group tour, but their division of time is useful.

Kathie

I'd say not more than three places in 12 days, and I concur with Craig that Hong Kong, Bangkok and Bali are too far apart to be a good use of your time. Also, if you are really interested in Bali, I'd say spend your whole twelve days there, divided between a beach locale and an inland area like Ubud.

Thailand is perhaps the easiest country to visit: good infrastructure, lots of people speak at least some English. It would be asy to arrange a trip to three places in Thailand, Bangkok, someplace in the north and a beach (if you are beach people).

Kathie

It occurs to me to recommend that you visit our website at www.marlandc.com for photos of many places in SE Asia. A picture is worth a thousand words, and will give you a better sense of where you want to go.

LA_FadeAway

I agree with the others that you should just pick one country given your limited time. My hubby was also a bit nervous about travel to Asia. He expected it to be difficult due to the language barrier and such, but he was quite amazed at just how easy SEA was. I think it was actaully easier to travel there than in Latin America.

marmot

Asia, like Europe, has many different and fascinating cultures. A first-timer does have a difficult time choosing. I think for 12 days you could cover two countries or several areas of one country, like Thailand.

All of the options you list are good ones so it's really up to you and your husband to make the choice that best suits what you like to do.

I am personally very fond of Bali and think that it would make a great combination with an urban Asian experience like Hong Kong, Singapore or Japan. There are non-stop flights from all three to Bali (Denpasar).

Bali is rural but there is a well developed resort culture so you will be well taken care of. It's a relatively small island and is easy to travel around, offering both beach and inland experiences. Culturally it spectacular and profoundly beautiful as well.

PS, my husband doesn't eat seafood either (allergies) and he does fine in Bali and allover Asia.

tcreath

Thank you all so much for your replies. It will help us tremendously in deciding on our itinerary. And I appreciate your putting our itinerary into perspective. I do agree that we were probably trying to do too much with the first itinerary, a mistake we've made in Europe on a few occassions as well and learned to regret it.

We are not really "beachy" people, but we do want to experience some of the coast. I like the idea of either mixing a few days of Bali with a more urban area, and I also like the idea of just concentrating on Thailand and seeing a few different places there. I think we probably need to wait for our guidebooks to arrive and start planning on what, exactly, we would like to do. That will hopefully help us shape our itinerary.

Kathie, thank you so very much for sharing your pictures. They are gorgeous, and you have taken some great trips. Seeing the pictures gets me more excited! Last night I was honestly on the fence about going to SEA at all, thinking that maybe we should explore Greece instead, but your pictures showed me exactly why I wanted to go to SEA in the first place.

marmot, thank you for your food reassurances! It sounds silly, but I think my pickiness has kept me away from SEA, and its a shame, I'm sure. I think I just have this general misconception that everything is seafood and I wouldn't find anything to eat!

LA_FadeAway, thank you for letting me know that my DH isn't the only one nervous about venturing to Asia! I think we have established a comfort level with Europe, and love everywhere we've been over there, so its hard to break out of that mold and try something new. Everytime we plan a trip outside of Europe we always end up going there instead, but this time I think Asia it is.

Thanks to everyone else for all your imput. Again, you have been a tremendous help (as everyone on Fodors always is!) and I appreciate it!

Tracy

emtee

Hi Tracy.

I've been to the places you are considering and I think that for a first time trip, I would probably skip Bangkok, especially if you are feeling a bit nervous about such a different holiday. Of the cities I've visted in the Far East, the softer (so to speak) introduction to the Far East is probably Singapore and Hong Kong. There is more to do in HK, so I would go there first. Bangkok is a great city but it's not for the faint hearted and I'm glad we didn't go there first as at times, it can be quite intimidating. I don't mean to put you off altogether because it is a fascinating place, but from what you have said, you may enjoy other places more for a first visit. English is more widely spoken in HK and it is easy and quick to get around. The same goes for Singapore. From HK you can fly pretty much anywhere in SEA. If you want a bit more in the way of activity then you could consider Borneo. It's 2 hours from HK and has excellent 5 star resorts. From here you can take day trips or overnight trips into the jungle, snorkelling, diving etc. The wildlife is fantastic in Sabah and we had a great holiday venturing around the countryside, but I believe that Kuching is the best city to visit for sightseeing.

Bali is amazing, probably the most cultural of the places I've visited in SEA, but it is more about beach and countryside, e.g. Ubud rather than cities. It is quite small so you can visit most places on day trips. It is a fascinating place though and there is plenty to keep you occupied. I would probably combine Bali with Singapore which is closer.

One other option would be to combine Singapore with Penang as there are direct flights there. You then have the option of visiting Georgetown which is colonial etc, the beach and temples etc. We are going there in September so I can give you a full report then!

Don't worry at all about the food and fish etc. My Hubby doesn't eat fish either and it's never been a problem.

I'd probably consider the following:

HK and Bali or Borneo (Malaysia)
Singapore and Bali or Penang

Good luck!

tcreath

emtee, thank you so much for your response. I was just thinking about skipping Thailand on this trip right before I read this. A co-worker of mine lived in Japan for a few years and traveled extensively around Asia. He told me that Thailand is fascinating but that he wouldn't recommend that we visit it on a first trip. I'm sure this will be our first trip, of many, to Asia so I don't feel too guilty about skipping it, if we choose to do so.

I find Singapore intriguing, and I like your suggestions of combining Bali with either Singapore or Hong Kong. I don't really know much about Borneo or Penang, but I'm open to just about anything so I will have to do my research.

Thank you again...you've given me quite a bit to think about.

Tracy

emtee

Hi Tracy

Glad to be of help. It can be a daunting prospect trying to decide! We first visited on our honeymoon and it took months to decide. But in the last 5 years we have visited SEA 4 times so we probably didn't need to agonise over it that much! Our first visit was to Singapore and Bali and it was fantastic. We are going back to Singapore in September so I'm really looking forward to that.

I will say that of the countries we have visited in the Far East, we have never been hassled in Malaysia, I mean to buy stuff, go into bars etc. It is probably the most relaxed place we have been to which is partly why I suggested having a look at it.

Just one final thought, it is a long way to travel so make sure you add in some relaxation time. It's a long enough haul from the UK so from the US I imagine you will need a bit of a rest at some point.

Enjoy the research,
Hayley

Cicerone

I think with 12 nights and 14 days on the ground you can "do" 3 places quite easily. If you want to do more concentrated time, then just pick 2 places, but really 3 places in that time frame is extremely common. With non-stop flights going to 3 places is quite easily done.

But before you choose the places, please first check weatherbase.com, as October and November are VERY tricky in SE Asia for many places. A place like Borneo, while very interesting, will be rainy, so you may want to avoid it and save it for another trip. Places like Vietnam are rainy. Much of the Malaysian coast like Penang is pretty rainy then too and may not be the best time to go. A place like Phuket is not good at that time of year. You really have to consider the weather IMO when planning an itinerary for fall in SE Asia.

If you go in October and have any choice, I would pick the second half of October, as the first week in October is "Golden Week" in China and Japan and most people have the whole week off. This makes other places in Asia more crowded and hotels and flights more expensive.

Hong Kong's weather is absolutely great in October and November, temps in the 70s, virtually no rain, very low humidity. Great for walking and hiking which there is a lot of despite being such a big city. Great restaurants of every cuisine, great shopping, easy transport, English is widely spoken and on all signage. I would definitely put that on your list.

Singapore is a good choice too, it is pretty much hot and humid all year and it rains a little bit almost every day somewhere on the island, the more rainier months are from late November through January so October and November are good.

Bali is another good choice, and there are non-stop flights from Singapore and Hong Kong. Lots to do and see there, you could spend the whole 12 days, but you don't have to, 3-4 days is good as well to give you a flavor.

I actually think Bangkok is perfectly fine for a first time visit to Asia, it is very easy to get around, lots of restaurants of all cuisines and it is exotic in a much more in-your-face way than either Hong Kong or Singapore. The very first time I ever went to Asia I went to Bangkok and that was in 1986 when it was really not very well touristed. I did not find it hard to get around at all, so really 20 years later you will find it easy by comparison, almost too easy if you ask me... If you have a choice here, I would opt toward the end of October or November to avoid greater chances of heavy rain.

These are hard choices to make here even ruling out the rainier places. We haven't even mentioned the PRC. Places like Beijing and Xian would be great weather-wise in mid-October, cooler but still very nice in November.

Clifton

Hi Tracy,

I'm sure everyone who's posted knows Asia much better than I do. But thought that since we just took our first trip to Asia a couple of months ago (flying out of StL too), I could add a first-time perspective.

Mostly just wanted to agree with Cicerone's excellent points. We were apprehensive as most people would be the first time anywhere, but we didn't find Bangkok intimidating at all. Actually, we stayed about a block from the main docks, where the skytrain station meets the river (Taksin). We walked down and figured out the boats in a few minutes. We were off at the Royal Palace dock and on our way via good signs in English 20 minutes later. The skytrain is very easy, with machines in english, pretty much just like most of Europe.

Granted, it's chaotic and the smells and sounds aren't like Europe, but I felt it sweeps you in more than knocking you down (metaphorically enhanced tonight, I am).

We visited Bangkok, went up to the hill areas of the north briefly, then went to Siem Reap. We actually liked Cambodia better and by then, felt ok to wander off the main tourist circuit.

I think probably the hardest things are: 1) to be prepared for the difference in living standards between some of SE Asia and what you'd see in N. America or Western Europe. and 2) That's it's ok (and necessary) to say no on a regular basis. You will be approached by people who want to sell you something or ask for something on a constant basis in a way you will not have seen in the US or Europe. But none of it ever felt threatening, and in fact, I came to enjoy feeling like part of the interaction that you don't always get elsewhere. Had some fun and interesting conversations as a result. So if you like people... you can't help but "go local" in a place like SE Asia.

By the way, there was no shortage of eats of every kind on either Bangkok or Siem Reap (Angkor). First night in SR, we had pizza. Not saying it was great Italian pizza, but I've had lots worse. But if you can afford 2 or 3 bucks for an experiment, try a Khmer curry. Not spicy, but kind of a sweet gravy stew almost, with chunks of meat, potatoes and carrot. Darn near midwestern cooking really. But really, really good. Not hot like Thai food can be.

Guenmai

Twelve days and three big places...too much! Someone said to skip Bangkok...I definitely would NOT skip Bangkok.It's fabulous and full of culture and with the skytrain super easy and/or private driver. I first went when there was no sky train and I've never had a private driver in Bangkok and I survived just fine. When I went to SE Asia...alone and female back in the mid/late 90s...on a three-week journey...I, of course, had a few butterflies in my stomach. I'd traveled a lot to Europe and other places....Africa/Australia/New Zealand etc.., but found SE Asia very easy and easier than a lot of the other places. I wouldn't skip any place just because it might be out of one's "comfort" zone...in regard to the general places traveled in SE Asia...so just jump in and do it...it's part of travel experience. Plus, you are TWO people. I'm alone on the roads and have survived for 30-plus years...and just fine! Personally, I'd go to Bali first and rest up and then fly up to Singapore, with a day or two stop over...and fly on to Bangkok and finish up there. So... U.S.-Bangkok(overnight)(1 night)-Bali(4 nights)-Singapore(2 nights)-Bangkok-(5 nights)-U.S. That would give you a good overview of SE Asia. When I did my first 3-week trip...back in the 90s...I did L.A.-Singapore-Bali-Singapore-Chiangmai,Thailand-Bangkok-L.A. I got an open type of plane ticket so that I could change plans at the spur of the moment if needed and without any penalties. I changed plans, quite a bit while there. Be flexible and relax and absorb it all. SE Asia is NOT Europe. It's not a "If it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium" type of place. Relax. Have a ball. If you want to pull up my previous trip reports and comments... just click on my name. Happy Travels!

tcreath

I can't thank you all enough for your continued replies.

I must say that I still find this completely overwhelming! I just received my Hong Kong travel guide in the mail and the city looks fantastic and its on hubbies list of places he really wants to see. The general consensus seems to be that Thailand is a must. Would you drop Hong Kong in favor of Thailand?

I definitely realize that SEA is not Europe, and I'm not really in that mindset of thinking they are going to be even remotely similar. I have traveled outside of the typical Western Europe countries, and will be going to Croatia and Bosnia in November, so I don't mind leaving a "comfort zone" and traveling to less-touristed destinations. Something about Thailand just seems so intense though, and I am a little nervous. I guess we were thinking more along the lines of easing our way into SEA and skipping Thailand until our next trip over there. However, if everyone says its great, they are saying it for a reason. It looks fascinating and I'm sure we would be fine should we choose to go there.

Thanks again!
Tracy

Kathie

I'm sure you'll be fine no matter which places you choose. All of the places you've mentioned have good infrastructure, many people speak English and you'll be welcome visitors.

I think Thailand is the easiest country to visit in Asia, only Singapore (a city-state) is easier. I can't imagine why anyone would discourage you from Thailand. That said, Hong Kong is fascinating, though I have heard of people feeling overwhelmed by the crowdedness and crush of Hong Kong.

If you opt to go to Thailand, you can easily spend all of your time there. Personally, I'd recommend you choose one area and stick to that to cut down on travel time. So Thailand is one option, another would be Bali and Singapore. If you opt for Hong Kong, you'll want a day (or two) in Macau, and just one other location.

Bella_Bluebell

Do you want to include a beach stay? If so, then I think Bali will be a better bet than the Thai beaches at this time of year unless you leave a beach visit until the end of November in which case the monsoon season on the Andaman coast is winding down (Phuket, Krabi etc).

So, if you are travelling earlier than that, then either Singapore or Hong Kong combined with Bali would work v well I think. You could stay on a beach in Bali and inland in Ubud, where there is beautiful scenery and wonderful culture. We've really enjoyed our trips to Bali and it is a very good place to go on your first trip as it is very 'gentle', however I love Thailand most of all.

As regards your concerns regarding Bangkok, I can understand that conceptually it can feel a bit overwhelming but it is a very easy to travel around and a truly wonderful city. If you do go there, you could stay on the river where there are some wonderful hotels. Not only is staying on the river atmospheric, but it does enable you to easily use public transport. The express boats are very easy to use and cheap and connect to the skytrain - which again is v easy to use and has blissful air con. If the thought of using public transport is just too much, consider hiring a driver or even a guide to show you around.

I live in the UK and have travelled extensively around Europe and noticed that you have as well. As compared to some places in Europe, Thailand is easier to travel in. It is so geared up for tourism that you can book a trip, a car, a tour on every corner and the people are very helpful and you will always be able to find someone who speaks English. As regards your concern re. seafood, the seafood is fantastic in SE Asia but is by no means the only food available. In all of the places you have mentioned, you will have no problem finding other indigenous non-seafood dishes and will also find many food types from around the world as well.

Happy planning
BB

offwego

Tracy

I really don't much think it matters where you go on this first trip, because you'll go back!

If DH wants to go to HK, maybe fly in there then proceed to the place YOU most want to see and then fly out on open jaw from there?

I would go to 2 places in 12 days.

Guenmai

When I mentioned that SE Asia is NOT Europe, I meant in the sense that one needs to slow down in SE Asia. For example, People going to Europe speed through it, often times, doing for example, 5-6 countries in less than 3 weeks. That doesn't work in SE Asia. Things move slower and there's much more to absorb......As someone above said, Ubud in Bali is a good choice. It's very cultural, yet chilled out. And I definitely wouldn't cut out Thailand. After my first 3-week trip,to SE Asia, Thailand is the place I've returned to over and over again and hopefully, although I'm only 50 now, will take early retirement in as others have discussed doing in this forum. Happy Travels!