Pat_Rick

I am going on a 16-day tour to China with Pacific Delight in a couple of weeks. I will have two and a half days in Beijing and would like to take a Hutong Rickshaw Tour that is not on the itinerary. <BR>My question is: 1)What should I give up? and 2) is it worth it?<BR>Here is my itinerary arriving in Beijing from Shanghai:<BR>Day 1: Check in to the State Guest Hotel Presidential Plaza, tour Tian An Men Square and the Temple of Heaven.<BR>Day 2: Forbidden City's Imperial Palace, visit the Summer Palace where you cruise Lake Kunming. <BR>Day 3: Great Wall. Walk along the Sacred Way to the Ming Tombs and Chang Ling Exhibition Hall. Beijing Duck dinner.<BR>I would appreciate any input that you may provide. Thanks.<BR>

Cicerone

I have done the Hutong rickshaw tour 3 times and love it. Many people on this site will tell you it is touristy and that you should talk a walking tour by yourself. Of course if is touristy, but it is also a lot of fun and you see a fairly large area in addition to the bell/drum tower. I think it is worth it. My main argument against trying to do a walking tour by yourself is that the area is being torn down, and roads that someone might tell you about today are gone tomorrow. It is not really an easy area to figure out on foot as the lanes are narrow and winding. I would definitely recommend the rickshaw tour. I think it takes about 2 hours.<BR><BR>If the Ming Tombs is an optional tour, I would skip it. It appears from your itinerary that it is part of a day at the Great Wall, but I can't tell. The Great Wall is of course worth it; but if you could do the Hutong tour instead of the Ming Tombs, I would. Most people on this site agree that the Ming Tombs are a disappointment. If it is a combined tour and they are going to the Badaling access point for the Wall, I would say to skip it and just go to the Great Wall by yourself (or convince others on your tour to join you as split costs.) The best way is to hire a car and driver, but you can take public transportation as well, and there is supposed to be a semi-private van that makes the trip. Run a search on the Great Wall here and you will get suggestions for getting to the Wall. IMHO, the Mitianyu access area is much better than going to the Badaling area (which is the closest to Beijing and constantly packed with tourists). Mitianyu is about 1 ½ hours by car from Beijing. There is a cable car, and you can walk up or down if you want, a very steep climb either way! There are lots of obnoxious souvenir sellers at the bottom near the cable car, but once you get past them, it is quiet and serene. You can walk quite a distance in either direction along the top of the wall. I would recommend that you go to Mitianyu, bit if you are really pressed for time, then the Badaling would be acceptable. You do not need a guide at the Wall, as it is pretty self-explanatory. Bring a picnic lunch and have a picnic on the wall. Depending on the timing of the Hutong tour, you might be able to do this on your first day with your other scheduled activities. I don't think it would be possible to do the Great Wall (on your on) and also the Hutong tour on Day 3, but if there is any early morning Hutong tour, you might be able to do both. 2 ½ days is a very short time to try to do all the things on the itinerary, so good luck.<BR><BR>If you aren't already scheduled to see an acrobatic show, you should do this yourself on one of your nights. The hotel should have information on the various shows and can sell you tickets. Again, touristy but definitely fun and entertaining.<BR><BR><BR>

slowboat2002

I'm very familiar with the tour itineraries of several companies and here are a couple of things to consider. <BR><BR>First, while you will do everything on the itinerary, it may not be on the day specified. For instance, 99 percent of the time, Tiananmen Square is coupled with the Forbidden City since they are adjacent and you just walk from one to the other. Therefore I think you likely will not go to TAS on Day 1 and in fact, your local guide may suggest an optional Hutong tour after your arrival since there might possibly be time to to that plus the Temple of Heaven that afternoon. I'd encourage you to ask the guide if it would be possible. As you will be with this group awhile before reaching Beijing, maybe you could talk up the Hutong tour with other tour members and especially if several people want to do it, the local guide might be better able to arrange it for you. On looking at your itinerary again, though, I see that if you are driving to the Shanghai airport from Suzhou you will probably be taking an early afternoon flight to Beijing and may not have time for both after all. In this case you might want to hit the Hutongs in the evening: see below.)<BR><BR>Second, if that doesn't work out, you could skip the &quot;cultural show&quot; on Day 2 which is Peking Opera or watch a little of it to get the flavor, and then wander around the area of the theater which is near a Hutong area and the &quot;antiques street&quot; Liulichang and take a taxi back to the hotel yourself. Alternatively, on Day 2 there may be time for a group Hutong tour or to put the Temple of Heaven if your local guide can make the changes.<BR><BR>Third, you could take the previous poster's advice on Day 3 and either wander the Hutongs yourself or arrange for an escorted tour through your hotel--they usually start out about 8:30 am. After that you could arrange for a taxi to the Wall. <BR><BR>(By the way, I agree the Ming Tombs are not the most scintillating thing about your trip but walking the Sacred Way makes going out there worthwhile.)<BR><BR>Elizabeth<BR>

PeterN_H

To find more information about the Great Wall site mentioned above, you'll need to be looking for Mutianyu (not Mitianyu). There are several postings on this site, and if you enter 'Mutianyu' in the search box above you'll find a variety of views, more detailed descriptions, and some transport information.<BR><BR>Possibly more convenient with limited time would be the site at Juyong Guan, which is close to Badaling but a little nearer to the centre of Beijing. Again, search for 'Juyong Guan' and you'll find a description and transport details. As of yet, and despite being the single most expensive restoration project in Chinese history, this doesn't receive many visitors, and unlike the other major sites, actually has something of real antiquity.<BR><BR>The sacred way is the best thing about the Ming Tombs, but many visitors are disappointed. The Qing Tombs (both west and east) are far superior, but they each require a full day, being a little more than 100km from the capital in either direction.<BR><BR>The rickshaw tours are highly regrettable, and completely unnecessary, unless you happen to have mobility problems. The Hou Hai (Shicha Hai) area in which they travel can easily be strolled around, and indeed there are many interesting places to stop and look around in your own time, and much detail you'll miss even at rickshaw speed. <BR><BR>This area (not least because cadres have been buying up courtyard houses and modernizing them) looks likely to be the last area to survive, although more areas still stand at the moment, and there are nominally a greater number of protected areas ('protected' can mean 'will be pulled down and rebuilt to look prettier'). Again, a search of this site for 'hutong', will reveal a variety of views on the matter. If your time is very short indeed, then perhaps a hutong tour is at least convenient, despite its other drawbacks.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

Elainee

The Hutong tour is just ok, but going on foot without assistance might be an exercise in frustration. I did not love the tour, though I did love the bell tower, but I would suggest you take it. Do go to the Opera. Again, it was not great, but I did learn more than I realized at the time about the conventions of Chinese theatre. On the Yangzte River trip we had the opportunity to see a &quot;face changer&quot;. It was one of the great experiences of my life. If we had not been to the Opera I would not have understood much of what he was doing. We also stayed at the Presidential Plaza hotel. If your room is not satisfactory, get it changed. They were having air conditioning problems when we were there. The location of the hotel is not very good, so plan to take taxis if you want to do things on your own. FYI..our first (and only)dinner there at the hotel, we were charged more for our drinks...soda, bottled water..than we paid for dinner in restaurants in Beijing. Fortunately, the dinner was good, so we did not get too annoyed. That was our only experience like that during our entire trip.

PeterN_H

Just by the way, the Presidential Plaza has a rather bizarre history, about which I won't go into in detail here, but it opened (very briefly) as a Radisson, although it is now managed directly by the Chinese owners of the building. The building changed purpose during construction, and there are more than 30 room types, some of them odd (but interesting). The airconditioning problems are long standing, and the result of the building having had a long pause during construction, after which it changes from being offices to being an hotel. <BR><BR>The Food and Beverage Director became the GM when Radisson left, and about the only other foreigners who stayed were the chefs. The Chinese restaurant there (which I haven't tried) gets very high marks from Chinese friends of mine, and although I don't like buffets, I had to admit that the Western buffet was the best in Beijing when I last visited. <BR><BR>The hotel is only just outside the second ring road, so a lot more central than many others favoured by tour groups, and only five minutes' walk from a metro station on the circle line, which is actually very convenient for getting around during rush hours when Beijing's traffic coagulates.<BR><BR>It would be interesting to hear after the visit how the service is now.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

felicia

Hello! I am leaving on the 19 day Pacific Delight Yangtze trip on April 12th. Let's compare notes before and after we return! Regards, Felicia

Linochat

We did a 21 day Pacific Delight in June 2002. The Hutong tour was really nice. I'd do it again. I don't think I'd give up any of the stuff on your list. Everything you've got listed is better. The Beijing Duck dinner is fabulous! Ask you tour director (when you get to Beijing) if you can skip some shopping time (if available) to go and meet up with the group again.