Just wondering if any of you Asia travelers have seen this thread on the Europe Board, entitled "Europe lovers gave Asia a try this time around -- thoughts on our experiences"

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2

The OP was very candid and brave to post! Frankly, I was quite shocked by some of the responses. Made me feel quite protective of Asia, LOL!

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34932958 will take you right to the post rather than just the Europe board.

Oops, sorry about that. Thank you KimJapan.

i don't think i would use vietnam as a yardstick for asia in general, so the observations expressed are less valid imo....they are good observations, but not accurate for asia in general...try india if you really want to see filthy...

I have not read it in a day or two; but my original thought was that it is very hard to make any statements about Asia based on a two week trip to one country. I have lived here 15 years and would be hard-pressed to make general statements about the places I have lived. I also have lived in Europe and would be quite hard pressed to make general statements, either good or bad about "Europe". I wish the poster had made a few more trips to Asia before writing off the entire area as she seems to have done.

It's like someone going to the US for the first time and only seeing major cities and saying that all of the US is big, dirty, crowded cities where the people are rude. That's one picture perhpas, but hardly the whole country, and the poster was talking about an entire continent.

My other thought in response to her advice to "thank God you weren't born in a third world country" was to say "no, it's to thank God you were born with money or have money." People with money in these "third world" countries are doing just fine, thank you very much; most of them have a much better lifestyle than most middle-class Americans. And people without money in the US ain't doing so well from what I have seen, I could give her a tour of Newark that would make Vietnam look like a walk down Park Avenue; of course we would need a police escort for Newark, which is not the case for Vietnam...

From her post, I'd say it's like someone visiting poor rural families in the Ozarks, then saying that America is backward and uncivilized.

Nothing wrong with her feeling the way she does, but it would have seemed much less naive to title the thread "Europe lovers gave Vietnam a try and ....."

I know that my first visit to any new culture is always is more stressful than relaxing, and I would never judge a whole region on that one limited experience.

In addition, the OP seemed to bring the wrong shoes and clothes, had a bad guide, got to Hanoi on the day the museums were all closed, and did homestays in very primitive locations.

Fascinating travel opportunities, and she admits they wanted to do a gritty, non- tourist type trip. To put down all of Asia, using this trip as a comparison to one spent relaxing at French cafes is rather silly.

Now judge the Paris visit against a stay at the Peninsula in Bangkok, getting massages and scrubs at Face, sipping cocktails at a pool, eating fabulous meals for under $50, with a private driver to take you out and about, shopping at SJ...... Or judge it against a stay at a ryokan in Kyoto during cherry blossom season. Then you're comparing apples with apples!!

I have not read all of this particular post but my general reaction is similar to Cicerone except to note that many in the US think of all asia and asians to be alike and I think that this is another example of this mind set.

I saw this post and made a reply encouraging the OP to visit again. I think that maybe the itenary was a little too ambitious for a first trip to Asia. I think Thailand is probably the best place to start with Asia, slowly, slowly. It,s a VERY different destination to Europe and for some can be quite a culture shock at first. I hope she tries again.

Cicerone & Lucy, you nailed it. The OP signed up for an edgy trip and ended up generalizing about a whole continent.

We didn't get to Vietnam, but thought SE Asia (including rural Cambodia) seemed clean, orderly and efficient compared to parts of Mexico and Venezuela, where I used to live.

(But we still adore Latin America - please don't tell the people on that board!)

Huh? Maybe I read the wrong post. Her comments were pretty well focused on Vietnam and she related her experiences fairly well. I'm not going to parse her words, I get her meaning. She was shocked at the poverty she saw and was thankful of her own situation. Sounds like she learned a good bit and it will take some time to sink in and then she can put it in perspective.

I thought the OP described her experiences fairly, but what did dishearten me was that she was fairly discouraging about traveling to Asia - ie if I were a Europe lover considering a first trip to Asia, I would definitely reconsider after reading her post.

But what truly saddened me were the responses - like the poster who said he would never travel to China because he'd heard rumors of tourists being abducted and having their organs harvested. Are people's perceptions of Asia/China that skewed?

I think the description is like someone from Beverly Hills visiting Oxnard for the first time. But really who cares about the review such a person would write? I didn't like a lot of places in Europe but at the same time I don't like a lot of places in Thailand too.

Did I enjoy paying 1,000 Euro a night for a hotel room in Paris - no, but hey here in Thailand we have an extravagant dinner for 20,000 Euro a meal. When I ate at George Blanc's restaurant in Lyon it didn't cost the 3 of us more than 2,000 Euros 1/10th of the meal I'm comparing with.

On my last trip to San Francisco, a homeless man whip out his genital and pee on the wall of a record shop right next to my daughter and wife who were waiting to cross the street to our hotel - the Four Seasons. I don't recall telling any of my friends in Thailand about this episode because I know it exist all around the world.
My point is - we are all free to express our opinion but the less traveled or educated will always be the most ignorant, IMO that is.

I read part of the thread and took it all with a grain of salt. I always enjoy my trips to both Europe and Thailand. My first trip to BKK was a little scary because it is so different from my other travel experiences. I was really glad that I had someone (my son, bradinbangkok) to show me around, or I might have been too intimidated to get out and go!

I also had to remind myself that I was reading these comments on the Europe forum. Now don't get me wrong, and please don't flame me, but the whole demeanor on the Europe forum is, IMO, less friendly than here on the Asia forum. I post on both, but have gotten flamed on the Europe forum and didn't really appreciate it. The Asia forum, on the other hand, is my first stop at fodors.com. It's friendly, helpful, humorous, etc. and the Asia forum people I've met at GTG's have been really nice!
Carol

yup, I think lcuy & Cicerone hit it one the head. The poster should have used Vietnam in her title of her post and not Asia. That is what is causing all the controversy IMHO.

The contents of her post were all her observations of Vietnam which are fine but the title leaves one to believe that she is dissing all of Asia.

Aloha!

the hostile responses the poor OP got are why I don't post on the Europe board much anymore. Too scary to have an opinion over there.....

I stopped reading after the first day or so, but can someone here answer this question for me, as I have trouble finding the answer:

- Why and how did she pick Vietnam for her first Asian trip?

I LOVE what ICUY said about the Ozarks!! If you have never been to the US please dont come here first!!!!!!

I have the same question as rkkwan, why VN?

rkkwan:
don't know how she picked VN. The op never says how she made that decision.

Interesting side note,

The OP has posted a rebuttal on a different thread and taken Asia out of her title and substituted Vietnam(the correct title would have saved her a lot of grief IMO).

Aloha!

Note that she posted a trip report here, and she asked lots of questions before she went. Her trip report here and her comments are the Europe board have a different flavor. She's also the person who wondered about giving feedback to her guide she didn't like.

ok, maybe it was a bit of a different flavor. But she was relating to her friends over on the Europe board that a home visit in Bac Ha is a bit different from a cafe on Champs d'Elysees. She didn't enjoy the former so will return to the latter.