Dear all,

I've had some great advice from the fodors forum in the past so I am hoping that some of you indonesian experts can give myself and my future wife some great suggestions for our forthcoming honeymoon in indonesia! We would be really grateful for any pointers or advice!

We have about three and a half weeks to spend in total. We consulted a travel agent (as with organising the wedding we thought it would be a a treat for someone else to organise this for us!) and they have suggested the following itinerary:

2 nights Singapore
3 nights Amanjiwo hotel, Yogyakarta, Java
3 nights Tanjung Puting National Park, Kalimantan to see the Orang Utans (probably staying on a klotok or possibly in Rimba Lodge)
2 nights Tugu Malang, Java
1 night Java Banana Mount Bromo (and see Mount Bromo at Sunrise)
3 nights Waka di Ume hotel, Ubud, Bali
7 nights Tugu Lombok, Lombok

The itinerary at present takes a little less time that we have in total (we could probably stretch to another 3 nights could re jig a bit to re balance the trip if we wanted). We are wondering about whether we can fit in another destination, possibly on a beach, by trimming the lombok part and extending the trip, but we don't want the overall trip to feel too hectic.

I am a keen and experienced diver, but my fiance is not (though she likes snorkelling), and we wondered about Sulawesi so would really appreciate any advice others have. It sounds amazing but we weren't sure whether and how it would fit into the above itinerary. In addition, we weren't sure about whether Tugu Lombok was the best beach destination - has anyone stayed there? We would like to stay somewhere luxurious and relaxing, with a really beautiful white sand beach, but which doesn't completely break the bank! In addition, Amanjiwo sounds amazing, though incredibly expensive, but we are wondering whether since this is a trip of a life time it is worth it! We are also wondering if anyone has stayed on a klotok and could advise us on the level of comfort? We know it is basic, but wondered if others had difficulty getting to sleep? It does sound like a magical experience from what we have read, but we wondered if it could be done in less time (2 nights rather than 3) or if this is rushing things? We also wondered if others would recommend Malang and Mount Bromo and have other suggestions for the balance of the trip. We are relatively adventurous travellers, who like getting off the beaten track. We like hiking, wildlife, relaxing, surfing (though we are beginners), snorkelling/diving, and culture, but as it is our honeymoon would like to just chill out on a beautiful beach in a romantic setting for a good chunk of time! We are happy to spend a bit more than normal but don't want to feel like we are really paying over the odds, somewhere which is not worth it!

Thanks again in advance for any pointers from anyone! It is really appreciated.

It sounds like a wonderful trip.

I am wondering a bit about your routing... You go from Java to Kalimantan then back to Java. It seems like it would make more sense to do all the Java together , then Kalimantan then on to Lombok. But perhaps there are air connection that make your order of things practical.

There are a number of reviews of Amanjiwo. Do a search (click on advanced search, type in Amanjiwo, check search full page, choose Asia forum, tag: Indonesia) Note that there are very good deals to be had by contacting the GM there.

Tugu Lombok - there is a recent review here
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...ugu-lombok.cfm
Read it and see if you still want to stay there. We loved Qunci Villas, so you might look at them.

Have you been to Bali? Yes, I know it's firmly on the tourist track, but the unique culture is worth the trip.

Kathie spotted the same glaring oddity I did. I think to get from Yogya to Borneo you have to go through Surabaya, so it would make more sense to go overland from Yogya to Malang and Bromo before going to Borneo.

Wow, Toby, you’ve really been doing your homework. What time of year are you going? The rainy season (roughly December -March) is problematic for Bromo and any mountain trekking. Otherwise, it's okay.

1) Sulawesi
I think you’d like Sulawesi – both Central Sulawesi (Tanah Toraja) and North Sulawesi. For Tanah Toraja you fly into Makassar (Ujung Padang) and drive (get driven, that is) to the Rantepao area which takes about 4 hours and is incredibly scenic. You can fly from Singapore to Manado on Silkair and to Makassar and Manado from many places within Indonesia.

I haven’t been there for some time so I can’t recommend a place to stay, but the area is fairly well traveled by European tourists and there are some nice choices in and around Rantepao.

In the Manado area I REALLY like the Kungkungan Bay Resort. It’s about an hour from Manado airport and is beautifully situated on the Lembeh straits. Accommodations are upscale, food is good and you can snorkel (or dive for that matter) right off the beach. The SCUBA facilities are world class. Of course Bunakan is also terrific, but if I had to choose I’d go with Kungkungan.

From Kungkungan, you can also take a day trip to Tangkoko nature preserve and see hornbills and tarsiers and other birds and primates. The whole area is profoundly beautiful both above and below water.

2) Yogyakarta and Central Java
If you’re going to splurge, Amanjiwo is the place to do it. I’ve stayed there many times and have never been disappointed – though my heart stops when I get the bill! You might consider two nights there and two nights in a less expensive place. Maybe the Losari Coffee Plantation or a hotel in the town of Yogyakarta, like the Hyatt (it’s actually quite nice) or the Phoenix which Filmwell really liked. Try to get to the Dieng Plateau as well.

I just read an article about this place on the South Java coast outside of Yogya which might be fun for a night. The area can be overrun by local holiday makers which is a cultural experience in itself, but I warn you it is not pristine. http://www.javacovebeachhotel.com/

3) Kalimantan
It does seem a little odd to put Borneo in the middle of Java, but maybe it’s the flights from Yogya that your travel agent is looking at. Actually, I would say that you may need more than 3 days for this excursion. Expect delays. I haven’t been to Indonesian Borneo, though I have been to the Malaysia side. Malaysia may be a bit more organized. Another excellent side trip is to the Niah Caves outside of Muru.

4) Malang, Bromo & East Java
Malang is a pleasant town and a good base for exploring East Java but not really a destination in itself. The Tugu is a curiosity, but for me the whole place was somewhat underwhelming. Don’t count on flying to Malang. Flights are unreliable. If you’re driving from Yogya to Bromo then Malang would be a good stopping point. If you’re flying then I’d give it a miss and use Surabaya as your base instead.

Bromo is magnificent and I’d think you’d want more than one night there as there are a lot of good treks in the area. Accomodations are pathetic but it’s worth it. Java Banana sounds like the best option to me too, though I haven’t been there. My son stayed at Lava View Lodge a couple of years ago. Said it was grimy but had it's compensations.

You might also want to consider continuing on to Ijen (especially if you’re thinking of taking the ferry to Bali). The sulfur crater supposed to be fascinating. Haven’t been but it’s on my list! Also, try to see the Sidoarjao mud volcano, for an astonishing – albeit depressing – view of what man or nature can do to the environment.

5) Bali
I can’t remember if I’ve seen Waka di Ume. I looked at several of the Wakas in the Ubud area. I like the concept but think the execution is somewhat inconsistent. If you intend to dive or snorkle in Bali, you might get up to North Bali where there is also a wonderful national park. Puri Ganesah Villas in Pemuteran are pricy, but very, very nice.

I would think that you’d want to stay longer in the Ubud area as well. There are plenty of choices. For super splurge Como Shambhala (maybe trade one of those Aman nights?) Otherwise Alam Sari is good. There are plenty of options within the town of Ubud too.

Amankila is spectacular, but more for the architecture and the serenity than the beach. Bali just doesn’t have the powdery white sand beaches with limpid azure waters.

Personally I like the beach in Seminyak as well as anywhere in Bali, though it’s far from deserted. You can surf there too and take advantage of some of the crasser (just kidding) aspects of Bali hedonism like good food and nightlife. I particularly like The Legian in Seminyak.

6) Lombok
I haven’t been to the Tugu so I shouldn’t comment but it does sound a little over the top. The Oberoi is nice in the luxe category. Qunci is universally well liked. 7 days in Lombok is to me too long. I’d make it 3 days in Lombok and add to Bali.

7) Another idea would be concentrate on Java/Bali/Lombok and then keep going east to Amanwana on Moyo island. It’s a bit of an ordeal to get there (and is as outrangeously expensive as the other Amans) but considering your interests, I think it would be a good fit.

Toby; You have great plans and have received some good ideas. Maybe I can add some thoughts having just returned from 23 days in Indonesia where we visited several coastal islands off Sulawisi, Toraja, Central Java,Bali and Singapore (this was just a 48 hr. stop-over on the way there and not woth commenting on IMO).
Bali was the spot of "heaven in earth" for us until 8-10 years ago but it has really has become very commercialized in many areas. That is not to suggest not to visit there but I would suggest you stay for 3 full days and 3/4 nights at the Four Seasons-Sayan in Ubud. It is magical especially in a deluxe room with a request for a room with the river backing up on your room. It is much nicer than the Aman there, in our opinion.The artisans in Ubud, actually up until 5-6 years ago, and to an extent are still around but not easy to access because of the rows of shops hawking less than quality products in most but not all the shops so the real artists are hard to find. You should hire a guide/driver for 2 full 8-9 hour days to take you away into the counry to the rice terraces and the local villages. I suggest you avoid the monkey Reserve because it is has monkeys trained to annoy you any even try to pick you pocket and hawkers can swarm around to the point of it being unpleasant. In Central Java we had a guide that was one of the best we have had in 43 years of travel. We rather not pack and unpack over and overas a general rule. I have stayed at several Aman resorts throught Asia over the past 12 years and visited the one near Yoyjakarta and found it like all the others; much too sterile and somber. Besides, since you are using your hotels as a comfortable place to sleep but plan to tour 8-9-10 hours each day you will have little opportunity to use the Aman's facilities for which they charge for almost everything and you would be far better off at the Hyatt on the Regency Club Floor where for approx. $225/night you will have a very comfortable large room with a king bed and the rate will include a full American breakfast and cocktails in the Regency Club Lounge from 5-7. That said the firm I used that gave me a terrific guide, I had researched several Chat Forums/blogs for referrals and then corresponded with this particular one 9 or 10 times before I decided to use them,is Borobudur Travel and Tours. You can email them and tell Wiedy, the owner, that I referred you. Their rates are reasonable for the 8-10 hour days we used the "special guide" we had. That is the one you want, his name is Rachmad though Wiedy himself was originally a licensed tour guide and is highly educated. In fact he coordinates tours with a counter-part in Bali, who I do not know, but that may your best bet for a quality referral in Bali. The rates in Bali likely are 15%-20% higher because it is a more expensive cost of living and many more tourists. We had Wiedy pick us up at the airporton arrival and take us to the hotel to go over the itinerary I had pre-planned with him and our guide for the 4 days in Central Java. On the morning we left he made arrangements to have us driven to Solo because our return flight to Singapore was on Silk Air that only flies from Solo. Because we paid probably $10-$15 more than the going rate per day for Rachmad but had him for 9-10.5 hours he did not charge us for the pick-up or the return to Solo (note worth going there as a visit,IMO) which is almost a 1 hr. away from the Hyatt on our departure without an extra charge. The guide made those days really special. I would suggest you visit Dieng Plateau on a day that the weather is good though from Yoyjka it is not always the same out at Dieng 2.5 hours away but the scenic beauty in the last hour of the trip and the time out there is "very special". It is quite breathtaking.They did charge us $10 or $15 extra for that day only for gas because of the distance. A day visiting Borobudur Temple and some of the surounding small villages Rachmad knows about will take up the morning. He is so knowledgeable about the temple you would be amazed.We shipped the sunset because you have to get up at 3:30AM and when you get to the Temple the shy could be cloudy and it is far to early at 6AM to do anything else. A day visiting a famous artist's compound, if that;'s your iterest and some other local villages that make batk and leather are worthwhile. We enjoyed our morning visit to Mt. Merapi and were told by several locals and visits that Mt. Bromo is not significantly more impressive and the local villages are not very different either and that is why we chose, in advance, not to devote 2 days to visiting Mt.Bromo. The only area I wish we had added 2 days to visit was Surabaya.
As for Lombok we were very disappointed when we visited there in 2005. The diving was o.k. and the snorkeling was just fair. The snorkeling off Bali is mediocre though the diving is pretty good. We did not enjoy the 3 days we were on Lombok neither the hotel, the food or interesting things to do. But on the other hand a visit to Monado is very special with the diving and snorkeling being first rate. The only word of caution for snorkelers is there can be a current so two things are important. One is go with a reputable firm that has been an on-going firm under the same name for 4-5 years and is licensed by the Dept. of Tourism of Indonesia and of Monado. The second is to wear one of those inflatable life vests. It normally is not an issue but it's just the wise think to do. Having just been there I would tink 3 full days there would be ample.
Sulawisi is quite interesting and up in the mountains it is very pretty around Toraja. There are several hotels but there is one that is the best, the name escapes me just now, but it was the most expensive but not over $150 with tax/service for a Jr. Suite. The only thing you need to know is there is NO A/C in any of the hotels and we were there last month and at 10PM it was still about 78F and humid though we had 2 large ceilimg fans in the suite. When we were there torrential rains in early March had over run one of the main roads so access was by secondary roads and it took twice the time to get up and back after landing in Makassar. Also, you need to know several of the local airline schedules are quite flexible and we personnally were not sure how well the aircraft were maintained yet we went anyway without incident. We were up in Toraja for 2 full days and while it was the Christian culture of the locals was very interesting and the beauty was almost as impressive as Dieng Plateau , but different, it was a lot of effort and expense for that experience. That said, some ofthe diving around Sulasisi as well as snorkeling is very good but nothing beat Bunaken though it was different. The beaches we were on were very nice and I was told that generally was the case around the island. We did not get to the Banda islands that I understand has excellent dive/snorkel underwater pleasures.One place we did go that was somewhat disappointing was Komodo. thought the Komodo Dragons were interesting to look at it was very, very hot and the diving and snorkeling was good but not as good as it had been touted to be.
I sure hope some of the above is hekpful. I can tell you ifyou use Wiedy's guide service in Java I doubt that you will be disappointed.

Toby44: I checked my notes and if you want to contact the guide service I used in Java the best email address to use is: [email protected]

Dear all,

Wow! Thanks so much for all this expert information and advice. We are really grateful for all your tips and pointers.

You're right about the slightly strange routing, though looking at the detail of the itinerary, we fly into Yogyakarta, head for Amanjiwo for three nights before flying out of Semarang airport to Borneo, and then on the return we fly from Borneo to Surabaya, for Malang, and then onto Mount Bromo, before flying back out of Surabaya. This seems to work okay though I have noticed the agent has us flying from Singapore to Denpasar and then Denpasar to Yogyakarta because the Singapore to Solo flight is fully booked. This seems to add a lot of travelling time and I've just noticed that air asia has a direct flight from Singapore to Yogyakarta earlier the same day, which gives us more time in Amanjiwo. Has anyone flown Air asia? It seems like great value.

In terms of weather, we are going in mid-July, which will hopefully be a good time to visit, although we are worrying that many places are already booked up so aware we need to confirm our accommodation and flights very soon!

Thanks so much to everyone for the very helpful suggestions regarding Sulawesi and some of the more remote islands. We would LOVE to go to the lembeh strait, the banda islands, or any of the places you have all recommended, but we are worried about adding on expense and time, when the trip is already quite expensive, and think we would probably need to drop another part of our trip to accommodate. We wondered whether we would be better spending a little more time on a beach on or nearer to Lombok or Bali. We are also a little wary of going somewhere which is very focussed around the diving as my fiance can't dive, and I wouldn't want her to feel too left out. I guess snorkelling, with the possibility of one dive or two would be ideal. Sounds like the snorkelling off the beach in Bali and Lombok isn't ideal though, with the possible exception of the gili islands. The north of bali looked nice though I wasn't sure how scenic the beaches were with black sand?

Really interesting to see the reviews of Tugu lombok. I think the same reviewer made a similar comment on tripadvisor which also had us a bit worried! Reading through the other reviews though there seem to be a lot of positive viewpoints as well and we are quite attracted by the proximity as well as contrast to Bali offered by Lombok. I think it would be interesting to be on a muslim island and the call to prayer might remind us of our times in Cyprus and Morocco! We definitely think we should spend slightly less than a week there though and up the time in Bali - perhaps 4 nights in Ubud, and then 2-3 nights on the beach? This would leave us with the following itinerary:

2 nights Singapore
3 nights Amanjiwo
3 nights Kalimantan
2 nights Malang
1 night Bromo
5 or 6 nights Lombok
6 or 7 nights Bali (split between Ubud and the beach)

What do you think? Does that sound right or would you think it would be too much packing and unpacking?

This leaves us with the problem of which beach to choose in Bali or somewhere not too far from there. Amanwana on moyo island looks amazing, indeed all the aman hotels look amazing! We're not really sure if our budget can stretch however! If you folks were recommending one Aman hotel after Amanjiwo which would it be?

We would really love to find a beach with the white sands and turquoise waters (we originally wondered about the maldives for our honeymoon) but it sounds like this doesn't really exist in Bali and surrounding areas, although some of the reviews of Gili Meno we read sounded like it starts to get closer to that - though on balance we thought staying somewhere more comfortable probably outweighed the benefits of the beach itself. What do you think?

If we were going to a beach in Bali, and wanting something characterful, not too busy, and beautiful, with a touch of luxury but without spending too much cash, does anyone have any suggestions. We were wondering about Sanur vs. Jimbaran in particular, and possibly Candi Dusa. On the other hand, Seminyak does have a lot of amazing accommodation, but it did look very expensive in the main, and perhaps quite a touristy area.

This is probably a crazy idea, but does anyone have any thoughts on building on a trip to a malaysian beach, possibly east coast peninsula at the end, and possibly flying via KL rather than via Singapore? We thought it would add quite a lot of travelling, but the beaches up there do look amazing! Anyone visited?

FInally, we are weighing up the pros and cons of staying on a klotok vs staying in Rimba lodge in Kalimantan. Anyone stayed on a klotok and got any tips as to which might be reputable companies to book a trip to Tanjung Puting?

Thanks again for any help you can offer. You guys are real experts, and we are grateful to you for being so generous with your expertise.

PS StanKase, thanks so much for the details of the guide service - will definitely follow that up! Much appreciated! Where did you stay when you stayed on Lombok on 2005? Was it the hotel or the place which was disappointing?

We stayed at the Tigu Lombok. We found the hotel o.k. it was just that the island seemed to have no unique personality and the people we met were not nearly as friendly as you will meet in Java. You may enjoy it but I would not return for free. As for the Aman if you do not mind spending an extra $1500USD to sleep, I assume like us you will want to tour for it is most exciting in Central Java. you can say I slept at an an Aman but my wife and I have travbelled now for 43 years and 3 Amans, about 15+ Four Seasons and 10 Mandarins under our belt and we really think the Aman's are for the ultra-rich that wish to move from one spa treatment to the next.If you stay there you will be impressed but the $1500 could be spent on maybe purchasing art at one of the galleries the Rachmad will take you to like El Prego or others. In fact we bought 2 paintings from the resident artist Sony Santosa at El Prego that we would have paid a great deal more at a gallery for be it in a hotel gallery or in-city gallery. But, in the end it's your trip and it has to be special to you. O would like to see a trip report when you return about your thoughts about Rachmad, Mt. Bromo compared to what you see in Central Java and the Aman. ENJOY!!!!!!!

1. Flight to Central Java
Singapore provides good access to Indonesia, but other Asian cities do too. Yogyakarta and Solo (Surakarta) airports are more or less the same distance – about an hour -- from Amanjiwo/Borobudur. Semarang is about 3-4 hours driving. You definitely DO NOT want to take the Singapore-Denpasar-Yogya route. If you have to connect from Singapore, then Singapore-Jakarta-Yogya is better.

I don’t have a problem with Air Asia except that they don't have too many flights. If one is cancelled or delayed you’re stuck. You should take a look at Garuda as they have the most frequent flights and it's easier to get re-routed or re-scheduled if you encounter problems.

2. Flights to Borneo and back to East Java
Getting to Pangkalanbun is going to be a challenge wherever you’re coming from. The flight from Semarang is the most direct, i.e., the fewest stops which is good, but Semarang itself is unreliable. I can’t stress enough how common it is for flights to be cancelled or delayed in Indonesia.

Personally, I would give Malang a miss and use Surabaya as your base for Bromo. Once you get to the Bromo area you're going to want to stay longer.

3. Diving/Snorkling
Bali’s just okay for both. The reefs at Menjangan are quite good and so are some of the East Coast wreck dives. My experience diving in Lombok was mediocre. Maybe I was just in the wrong place. I can understand that you’re overstretched and don’t want to add another island, but I would note that the area around Kungkungan is great for snorkeling too. My husband doesn’t dive either and he really enjoyed his time there.

4. Beaches
No, no white sand and turquoise waters in Bali. Lombok is closer to what you’re looking for. I’m not keen on the Gilis, but I understand that some of the newer properties are a step in the right direction.

ALL of the beaches in South Bali – Seminyak, Sanur, Jimbaran – are developed and touristed. That’s the objective. The major difference is in ambience and clientele, not density.

I would avoid Candi Dasa. The community is having a resurgence but the beaches are severely eroded.

North Bali beaches are not particularly nice, but the area is laid back and the access to reefs and the large nature preserve is a plus.

5. Lombok
I agree with Stan that Lombok lacks personality – or maybe has a bad personality. Good for just relaxing on the beach, though. I haven’t been to the Qunci but it’s quite well liked. The Oberoi was really lovely and I'd go back. I’m not a fan of the Tugu concept – a bit over the top, I think.

PS, You will definitely hear the call to prayer in Java!

6. Luxury
If you specifically want an Aman, then I would choose Amankila as second choice to Amanjiwo. [Actually Amanwana would be high on the list but getting to Moyo is a trek.]
Amankila could qualify as your beach location. The beach is black sand but it's mostly deserted and good for swimming. The resort has a boat that you can use for diving and snorkling and culturally the area is interesting.

I would, however, stress that some of the other resorts fall into the super luxe category as well. Como Shambhala outside of Ubud is spectacular. I think better than the Amandari and better than the Four Seasons Sayan, though it’s extremely difficult to get in and out of.

In the Southern beach area, I really like The Legian in Seminyak and several of the private villas that you can rent in the area.

7. Timing
July is definitely high season in Bali and Lombok and you will pay a premium in room rates, everywhere. The weather will be fine in Bali and Java. I haven’t been to Kalimantan or the Eastcoast of Malaysia so can’t comment on accommodations or weather.

Toby; I emailed the guide service in Central Jave and asked Wiedy to make your 3 days touring there as special as our 4.5 were. I am sorry for coming down so hard on the Aman but the service was just so pleasant at the this Hyatt in yojya that the $600/night difference just does not seem justified. There are many Hyayy's that are like Sheraton's in the US but we thought this one to be special.
I am not sure where your staying in Singapore but there are many nice hotels. We have stayed at Raffles ywice recetly and I used it in my business travels in the 1992-2005 period and really liked it. We went to the Fukkerton for lunch and it looks quite impressive. As for activitives I might suggest the Botanical Gardens early in the morning to avoid the heat and their zoo is quite expectional and a late afternoon visit might be worthwhile. A river trip is in my opinion a waste of time in Singapore. A walk through Little India is interesting but not much good quality in the product offferings. To visit the new ION Mall is an experience with 90% of the designers in the world having shops there but no bargains by US standards. Your 2 day plan is just right for SN.

A few thoughts:

People either really like Lombok - or not. Obviously, marmot and Stan are in the or not category, whereas we enjoyed it a lot. Some people describe Lombok as "Bali 50 years ago." While the level of development may be similar, the islands have very different cultures. We visited several villages (still without electricity) where people are living in their traditional ways. A guy who worked at Qunci Villas took us (at our request) to a couple of artists studios and to a place to find unusual handmade textiles. We enjoyed these outings, but spent much of our time relaxing in the quiet place.

There is a mosque near Qunci Villas, and I awoke with the call to prayer, feeling like I was in Morocco. The beaches are nice and very quiet in contrast to Bali beaches. Qunci Villas has expanded since we were there, and there are now pool villas and luxury villas as well as the original 18-20 room hotel. www.quncivillas.com

I think marmot's cautions about transport to Kalimantan should be taken seriously (she lives in Jakarta). You have a carefully planned itinerary, but there is no guarantee you can actually carry it out. So let me also offer another idea in regard to seeing wildlife. We went to Sabah (Malaysian Borneo) a number of years ago. I did a lot of research in advance to figure out the best place to see wildlife. At that time, visiting Kalimantan was much more difficult than visiting Sabah. Infrastructure in much more primitive, transport lacks reliability, etc. Air access to Kota Kinabalu is relatively easy, as is the short hop to the wildlife areas (we went to Lahad Datu to get to the Danum Valley Conservation area and stayed at the Borneo Rainforest Lodge). This would re-order your itinerary, but I think it is do-able. You are welcome to view our photos at www.marlandc.com If you click on my name it will bring up my profile - look at trip reports, and click on the one for Borneo.

You could also do your beach (with snorkeling and diving opportunities) time in Sabah. There are two Shangri-Las on the beach there, but there are also newer eco-lodges on the beach.

Do take a look at this thread on Thorntree:

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntre...53374#16953374

It has excellent info on wildlife viewing on Borneo.

Tobie; Katie has an excellent suggestion in Sabah. We were there in 2007 having first visited KUala Lumpur, flying in 45 minutes non-stop to the Redang Islands for great diving and snorkeling, as good as the Prehentians, and then to Sabah where we went first to Malaysia Borneo the easiy way to see and experience Borneo and then good beaches and good diving and snorking though not as good as the Redang but better than Bali or Lombok By the way in Central and East Java rachmad will show you Bali 30-40 years ago with villages with limited or no electricity but living "clean as a whistle" as best they can off the land.
I realize this is probably driving you a bit crazy but I would venture to say that Katie and maybe others would agree that 4-5 full daysand 5 nights in Bali is sufficient-maybe skip the beach there because you have it elsewhere, consider not going to Lombok and if the flight pattern allows in terms of efficiency in some order and cost 5-6 days in Sabah and 2 full days/3 nights in Kuala Lumpur. I only mention KL because you have to most likely go through KL to get to Sabah. In KL I would pre-arrange a guide driver to take you to the Cameron Highlandas. They are simply mahnificant with hundrends of acreas as far as the eye can see of undulating hills of tea plantations as well as the nomadic people that live in the highlands. Though it is a 2.5 hr. drive each way and the first 1.5 hrs. is not very interesting once you are within an hour of the Highlands you will know why I suggested you make the drive. We actually stayed overnight because we had heard it was that lovely and it was wonderful. On the second day there are several very interesting sites and the Malaysian city culture and govenment through a Muslim State is quite egalitarian which was of interest to us. Just an idea if you were to scratch Lombok and did the Malaysia for 7-8 full days.
By the way the hotel we had lunch at in Singapore that was very elegant, though we love Raffles to stay at was mispelled. It is The Fullerton but there are many others as I said. but you will find that Singapore is not inexpensive.

Kathie and StanKase

Thanks for the really helpful suggestions! In particular, the suggestion of Borneo Rainforest Lodge was really interesting. We really enjoyed reading your trip report - sounded like a great trip! The lodge seems much more our style, with some creature comforts, including a proper bed, than the klotok trip in Kalimantan! Although that does have its own romantic appeal, we have decided that we don't really want to rough it to that degree on our honeymoon so have now ruled out it. Also, we are hoping to arrange the trip ourselves rather than booking it all through a private tour operator in the UK and the section in Kalimantan looked the hardest to arrange ourselves. That and the increased likelihood of delays scuppering our plans has also put us off. Thanks for the advice on this - we really appreciate it.

We were also attracted by the idea of seeing the wildlife in its natural habitat rather than in a rehabilitation setting. However, because of the connections it does seem quite difficult to fit Malaysian Borneo into our plans, without completely losing either the section in Java, Bali or Lombok. We don't want to lose Java or Bali, and although StanKase and others aren't too keen on Lombok, we are keen on just getting away from it all on a white sand beach, and happy to give Lombok a try! Its proximity to Bali does seem to make it the most practical and cost effective option for us. The best itinerary we have come up with, taking account of flight connections, but including Malaysian Borneo would be:

1 night KL
1 night Kota Kinabulu
2 nights Borneo Rainforest Lodge
1 night Kota Kinabulu
3 nights Amanjiwo
2 nights Malang
1 night Bromo
5 nights Lombok
4 nights Ubud, Bali
3 nights Bali beach

Do you think that would be too rushed in the early section, with a night either side in KK, and only 2 in the rainforest?

ALternatively if we lost Lombok we could build on more time in Borneo but from a quick look at Kota Kinbulu (and Kathie's great descriptions) we weren't sure if it offered the really scenic, away from it all, 'deserted island' type white sand beach with great snorkelling that we would be after. We would prefer the small boutique resorts to the big chain hotels. Are there particular resorts in Malaysian Borneo like this anyone would recommend?

We also looked at Sulawesi which does look a place we'd love to go but apparently the Singapore - Manado flight seems to be about £500 ($765) one way which seems prohibitively expensive. We also couldn't find a resort in Sulawesi which seemed suitably luxurious - Kungkungen looked lovely but quite diving focussed, and we looked at Siladen which got mixed reviews I think. So I think that probably rules Sulawesi out this time - maybe next trip!

Finally, does anyone have any suggestion for getting between Amanjiwo over to Malang - is it best to fly between Yogya and Surabaya? or get a driver and car? or take the train?

Thanks all (and this is the last round of questions I promise) We will post a trip report afterwards!

StanKase - we have just looked at the redang islands (sorry I missed this in your earlier message) and they look amazing!

Malang is about 12 hours (maybe 14) from Amanjiwo by car. I wouldn't recommend it. I haven't taken the train on that route. Indonesian trains are reliable -- and scenic -- but not high on comfort or housekeeping.

If I recall correctly Malang is about 2-3 hours driving from Surabaya.

Lombok has some pretty beaches -- maybe not Thailand pretty, but certainly acceptable. You may be disappointed in the diving/snorkling. The reefs are gravely eroded.

If you do end up extending your Borneo time, consider Kucing/Sabah. My memory is that the beach there is very nice and the rain forest options are plentiful. Also, the Niah Caves in Miri are spectacular. Malaysia Borneo is much more attuned to tourism(eco and otherwise) than Kalimantan and logistics are easier.

You can fly from Singapore to/from Kota Kinabalu, which would eliminate KL from your itinerary. I do think 3 nights is a minimum for Borneo Rainforest Lodge.

There are some small, boutique beach places in Sabah. I haven't research them lately, but someone posted a question about a couple a while back. As marmot notes there are also nice beaches in Sarawak, near Kuching which is quite a charming town. But there is great diving close to Kota Kinabalu.

If you have 5 nights on Lombok, why go to a beach in Bali? I'd cut that, it will make the rest of your itinerary easier to manage.

I googled "Sabah Beach Resort" and came up with a long list. Here's a page from a hotel booking site (I've used it a couple of times successfully)

http://www.sabah-hotels.com/accommod...ach-hotels.htm

Research the hotels a bit and see if any fit your criteria.

I agree you don't need an agent to do this trip, just a lot of patience and a fast internet connection!

The Redang Islands are not Lombok but almost in terms of quite, lovely beaches and great snorkel and diving opportunities. Then Sabah though a back track is a "piece of cake". The flight from KL goes from the City Airport 5 or 6 days a week twice on those days and was $135 Round-trip in 2006 so it may be $160 now but it is so easy and it is great. I would recommend 5 days would be ideal. The Berajaya (spelling is off) Airlines also has a chain of hotels in Mslaysia and there is on on Redang and a Deluxe Beach villa with A/C should run $350/night with 3 meals. Do not expect gourmet but substatial and tasty. this is a good option. I do not want to put a wrench in your Central Java stay but you really could use 4 days but will Aman it gets costly or give up Bromo and go to what most people really do is the sunrise at Borobudur. You could go to Mt. bromo and it could be cloudy and I understand the villages and topography are just as you will have in Central Java.

Thanks for correcting me, Kathie. Kuching is Sarawak, not Sabah. On the whole I preferred Sarawak and thought that Kuching was more interesting than KK.

I wouldn't skip Bromo. It's spectacular, in a different way from Borobudur and the Dieng Plateau. The Majapahit Hotel in Surabaya is also a wonderful destination -- built by the group as Raffles and the Strand.

Stan's right that the Aman's ala carte charges (not to mention that 21%)tax really add up. You might consider 2 nights at the Aman and 1 or 2 at Losari.