live42day

Hello all. I am hoping that you can help me with my trip planning for the end of January of this year. I have read most of the trip reports from Kathie, Craig, NYwoman and others and have a fair idea of what I want to do. My style is close to NYwoman I think, lower cost hotels are just fine with me.
I noticed that a couple of you used a company in Yangoon called Santa Maria Travel

I sent them an email, we are just at the starting phase of this. Typically I do not do tours. I usually do it all myself but wondering about the logistics of getting around Burma. I know that you did it NY Woman. We do want to have guides for some of the places and car and driver for some as well.

This is an idea of a tour that they have sent us.
We also want to do the cheaper cruise from Mandalay to Bagan (like NYWoman did).

We have a total of one month, but want to spend 1/2 in Laos, so we have around 14 -15 days here. THis tour is for 10 days, but we would add on 2 or three nites in Nagapali Beach (or another beach that is recommended) at the end. Again I was intrigued by NY Womans account of Nagapali Beach.

The cost for this tour is $900 each, based on two people. This seems quite reasonable and includes all the flights and everything mentioned below.

I cant remember whether I read that Mt Popa was worth it or not.
Anything you would add or cut out?
That being said, this itinerary that I was sent I would love to have feedback from you

2011 Trip / Tour Transport Hotel
02 Jan Yangon arrival – transfer to the hotel and check‐in, then city
tour covering all major highlights
Car
Summit Park View Hotel3* / Superior Room

03 Jan Transfer to the airport and fly to Bagan in the morning, full
day visit in Bagan
Car / Flight
Bagan Thande Hotel 3* /
Superior Room

04 Jan Another full day exploration in Bagan to the remaining
highlights
Car
Bagan Thande Hotel 3* /
Superior Room

05 Jan An excursion to Mt. Popa, the most famous spot for Nat
(Spirit) worshipping center of the country
Car
Bagan Thande Hotel 3* /
Superior Room

06 Jan Transfer to the airport and fly to Mandalay in the morning,
visit Amarapura, Inwa (Ava) and Sagaing around Mandalay
Car / Flight /
Ferry boat /
Horse Cart
Mandalay City Hotel 3* /
Superior Room

07 Jan Morning visit to Mingun village by boat and visit Mandalay incity
highlights for the rest of the day
Car / Boat
Mandalay City Hotel 3* /
Superior Room

08 Jan Transfer to the airport and fly to Heho in the morning, visit
Pindaya cave and proceed to Inle lake
Car / Flight /
Boat
Paradise Hotel on the
lake 3* / Superior Room

09 Jan Full day boat tour on the lake including five‐day market and
all major highlights
Boat
Paradise Hotel on the
lake 3* / Superior Room

10 Jan Half‐day visit to Indein village and fly back to Yangon by late
afternoon flight
Car / Flight /
Boat
Summit Park View Hotel
3* / Superior Room

10 11 Jan Free and easy visit before departure Car for transfer
only

live42day

screwed this up already!!! I meant the end of December of this year!

Kathie

You don't need a tour, you don't need a guide everywhere. You'll have a boatment at Inle, and if you go into Pa-O territory, you'll have a Pa-O guide, so no need for the agency to get you a guide. Likewise, in Bagan, you'll likely want to use the horsecarts, so no need for a guide there either. For Mandalay, everything you want to see is out of town, so you'll need a car and driver. Transport is easily arranged, but allow for delays, glitches, etc.

We used Santa Maria to book our flights and to prpovide a car and driver from HeHo airport to Kakku and onward to our hotel. That was it. They could have booked hotels for us, and probably would have gotten us prices a bit cheaper than what we did on our own. We did not hire guides from them.

I think you are moving too fast for Burma. No way will you have a full day visiting temples in Bagan when you fly in that morning. You want to be out at sunrise! I'd say the itinerary gives you 1.5 days at Bagan and 1.5 days at Inle. For me that wouldn't be enough. We had three full days at Bagan and two full days and two half days at Inle (plus our drive to Kakku).

Do you have the Lonely Planet Guide? Take a look there and decide what things are most important for you to see.

live42day

Thanks Kathie, that is kindof what I was thinking. I will just use them for the items you suggest above. I am much more comfortable doing my own thing if possible and not being on a tour and it did seem rushed to me too. I will get the Lonley Planet too, just havent had time yet. Thanks for your comments.

Nywoman

You are truly rushing through. Mandalay alone is worth several days, apart from Inle and Bagan which are worth a lot of time. Thuis is a country to be savored.

Craig

Debbe - I would step back and have Santa Maria quote everything "a la carte". While Kathie did not book her hotels through SM, I think you could save some dough - just be very specific about what you want (room type, bed size etc.). Flights will definitely have to be booked through SM and it might give you some peace-of-mind to book hotel transfers. The rest you can do on your own. We found it was helpful to have a guide to explain the temples in Bagan, though you don't need one the whole time you are there. You will note from my report that two of our best experiences in Myanmar came as a result of our interaction with guides - witnessing the Buddhist procession in Bagan and visiting with Joyce and her family in Taungyyi near Inle Lake. Don't waste a day going to Mt. Popa.

live42day

Thanks NY and Craig. That is what I will do. We will spend 15 days in Burma and 15 in Laos so we can have more time in each. I felt it was a bit rushed too, but not having been there before wasnt sure.
Thanks for the info about Mt Popa Craig. I thought that I had read that in one of the reports.

dogster

Hi live: your itin is the bog-standard Burma shlep. Nothing wrong with that, it whips you round rapidly to a whole lotta stuff blah blah but it's cookie cutter 101. Consequently, you will be typed as yer typical fairly stupid tourist and you'll be in a tube you can't escape from.

Which is preferable to most people, simply because Burma is kinda hard to get your head around and, as Kathy found, nightmareish to book yourself. It was certainly the way I did it the first two times so no aspersions cast. As a first-timer, it makes total sense to see the highlights - which is what this itin gives you.

You can't come to grips with it in two weeks. Like anywhere. Burma is a seductress. After your first encounter, you'll want to go back. If you have eyes to see... but Burma the first time, like India, is kinda what you make it.

Selective eyes will pick out the cute kid, but not see the soldiers, others see nothing BUT the soldiers. As you'll have practically no interaction with real people on the above trip you'll probably return home with your selection confirmed. On my cruise with Road to Mandalay up to Bhamo, the passengers were blisfully unaware of the squadron of police, plain-clothes psychopaths and dutiful lackeys that dogged our every step once out of the tourist circuit. You have to have eyes to see.

Well, live, I reckon you've got eyes, pretty good damn eyes, so you're selling yourself a bit short on this trip. Now, how can we tweak it?

live42day

Thanks Dogster. This is why I love to plan months and months in advance, to get all this great information so that I can go ahead informed of my options. I think I will just use the travel agency for the tickets and transfers and maybe a couple of hotel bookings but do the rest on my own.
If I can do it in India, I am sure I can manage Burma as well.
I appreciate your advice and I will do more research and come back. Thanks.

htraveler

We were in Burma a couple of years ago and found it was an easy country to travel in. We did have our air reservations arranged for us but beyond that we could wing it with no problems. We did stay on the normal tourist track tho Yangon, Mandalay, Bagan, Inle Lake.

If you haven't made firm arrangements you might look into taking the public ferry from Mandalay to Bagan. It is a half day ride down river to Bagan and you can watch the river life as you float downstream. There is lots of excitement as the ferry pulls into the small riverside docks and it is perfect for seeing what life is like for the locals.

We loved Inle Lake and the five day market. We decided to spend more time in this area and it was a snap to have our airline tickets changed at their small ticket office.

Finding accommodations was also easy, as there are always hotel touts, taxi, horse cart drivers waiting to take you anywhere you ask. We used our Lonely Planet book to select our accommodations and just had a driver take us from place to place till we found a place we liked. We always made sure our driver spoke English and they were able to provide information on the sites so we didn't feel the need to hire a guide. My thoughts on the lake side hotels were - they looked isolated. We tried, as much as possible to stay in family owned, small inns. The very large 3* places are usually govt. owned.

I agree that Mt. Popa wasn't a place to spend the day driving to. You could look online and see what it looks like, read the write up in Lonely Planet and decide for youself. We did drive out to see it but after the descriptions of monkeys and lots of poo on the stairs plus the rain, we decided to drive up a nearly mt. and view it from a hotel viewpoint instead.

If you have the luxury of time, take all you can and see the place slowly. It is one of the places I'd like to return to. It is at the top of my list along with India.

Some thoughts: Eyeglasses are extremely cheap in Yangon. Take your perscription and they will cost less than $20 each. An interesting book to read before you go is, "Finding George Orwell in Burma". If you go to see the "Moustache Brothers" in Mandalay, they ask for old news magazines; Time, Newsweeks, etc. In Mandalay, search out the outdoor chapati restaurant - wonderful! Try not to haggle too much, these people can use a break. Take the circle train in Yangon in the morning - the sites of area are amazing. Have a great time.

live42day

Thanks for all the great information htraveler. Yes the boat to Bagan is what we want to do for sure. NYwoman had that in her report I just bought Finding George Orwell as well as Amy Tans Saving Fish from Drowning, both of which were recommended by Kathie.
So bringing old Time magazine is a good thing to do? They wont have a problem with that at the border , (I suppose they wont search my bags unless given reason). I would not want to get anyone living there in trouble with the local government by giving anything not allowed

Craig

I got such a kick out of Tan's Saving Fish - you will enjoy this book.

marya_

I too recommend Amy Tan's SAVING FISH FROM DROWNING, less for what it teaches you about Burma and more for the manner in which it deepens your reflectiveness about cross-cultural mis-communication.

Looking forward to following your planning for this trip, live42day.

wintersp

Re your 08 Jan plans. I see you plan to stay at the Paradise at (in?) the lake for 08 and 09. I stayed there - thought I hadn't lived til I stayed 'over the water'. My suggestion is ONE night there and one night in town. At the lake you are confined to dining in their facility - not very interesting.
AND - the generators go off about l0:00 pm - so be prepared. You are,of course, very limited as to where you can walk to explore. One night on the lake was enough for me.

I loved Burma and I hope you do also.

live42day

thanks for the tip Wintersp

anotherlostsoul

Hello live42day.

The 'fast' daylight ferries between Mandalay and Bagan (and back) do not run daily; the schedule is only confirmed about a month ahead and boats don't run if they do not have enough passengers. Booking an itinerary that includes this, this far ahead, will not work i'm afraid.

live42day

thanks. I will have a plan b.

jules39

I loved Saving Fish From Drowning!

htraveler

As for taking old news magazines to the Moustache Brothers; They have all been imprisoned for years and the govt. has a, sort of, hands off attitude towards them now, I guess. You'll be surprised at the things they say in their act. We were told that there were regime folks watching the house where their show takes place and our trishaw driver did not want to wait for us out front but said he would come back at the end of the performance. We had Time and Newsweek in our bags at the hotel but others had copies of magazines with them and gave them to the bros. Didn't seem to be a problem but of course if that doesn't feel comfortable, don't do it.
Saving Fish from Drowing was an interesting novel and gives you a feel for the place, Finding George Orwell is a non-fiction travel book by someone who has been interested in Burma for years and gives a more in depth look into life under the junta and during the British occupation.
As for the comment from Anotherlostsoul about tickets on the ferry to Bagan - gee, ignorance is bliss. We purchased our tickets the day before we left (we were there in June/July, low season?) and maybe we weren't on the "fast" ferry but it did leave in the very early morning. The lower deck was full of locals sitting on the deck. We were on the upper deck with an inside area with nice seating (maybe about 1/10th full) tho we stayed outdoors for the most part. Took our ipods but it was too jarring to listen to western music as the scenery went by. We floated along in silence.

We stayed in Nyuang Shwe when at Inle Lake. What a nice town! It has such a small town feel and is great for walking and viewing life. They have a couple terrific little pizza restaurants in town that when ordered they toss wood in their outdoor pizza oven and begin making the crust - nothing premade also fresh basil! You can also walk along the lakeside and find a boatman to take you on a tour of the lake.

Thanks for listening. The more I thing about Burma, the more I remember.

live42day

sounds wonderful.Thank you. I am really looking forward to this trip, but the planning is almost as much fun!