This is my first time to post. I see how helpful everyone is on this site & I'm hoping to get you experts on Japan to help me decide what is best. My problem is after reading guidebooks, I want to go everywhere. Please advise if this itinerary make sense &if it is best to get a pass or buy individual tickets.

Oct 10-13 -Arrive in Tokyo & stay with friend. Day trip to Nikko
Oct 14- 16 Tokyo -Shizuoka (stay with friend. Spend one night at hot springs near Mt Fuji)
Oct 17- Shizuoka -Tsumago (train or hike from Magome to Tsumago.
Oct 18 - Tsumgo-Matsumoto
Oct 19-20-Matsumoto-Takayama by bus
Oct 20 Day trip to Ogimachi & back to TAkayama
Oct 21-Takayama-Kyoto
Oct 22-24 - Day trip to Nara
Oct 25 - Kyoto-Mt Koya
Oct 26-Mt Koya-HImeji (meet friend & go by train to Yonago
Oct 27 -29- Yonago (stay with friend)Day trip to Hiroshima/Miyajima
Oct 30 -Yonago-Kurashiki-Okayama ( friend will take us )
Oct 31 - Okayama-Narita Airport for flight at 6:00PM

The bus trip from Matsumoto to Takayama sounds like a scenic trip, but I read that the bus stops running the middle of Oct. Does anyone know if that is true & what other options are there.
Has anyone done the hike between Magome& Tsumago & how difficult is it?

Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Plese advise which train pass it best.

That's an interesting itinerary. It is doable, if you want to do it, but check the travel times again.

The first part of the trip, up to Kyoto, is busy but doable. With the rest of your itinerary, I think you can skip Matsumoto and the bus over the mountains. I don't like suggesting that you skip this but am considering that you are on the road/rail quite a bit and you have some interesting stops on your itin later. The ride across the mountains, and esp. a stop at pretty Kamikochi, might be nice but it is in a bus. A city bus, basically, not a highway coach.

I'd suggest going from Kiso Valley to Takayama by train. Via Nakatsugawa I think.

Oct 26 - this is over 6 hours of pure traveling. Not simple, because it has a few changes of train. The first part is a 3+ hour journey from Koyasan (use Koyasan when you check the times at hyperdia.com) to Himeji. If you were going to Himeji from Kyoto it would only be about 48 minutes travel. Then 3+ hours from Himeji to Yonago. Add it some time to connect with your friend and a couple of hours at <u>Himeji castle</u> and you are looking at a very long day. Might be fun, tho, if you are up for it.

Your day trip from Yonago to Hiroshima, if you do it by JR train, is going to cost over 6 hours of travel time. It would be much more efficient to go to Hiroshima from Okayama. You can travel between Okayama and Hiroshima in 45 minutes or less.

When you are in Yonago you absolutely positively want to take a day and visit Matsue. See the splendid castle there, this will make up for missing Matsumotojo. And go to the fabulous Izumo Taisha. There is enough in the Yonago area to keep your attention for those three days without going to Hiroshima.

You need to find out when the Takayama autumn festival is. It is in October.

If I was to move things around in your itin I think it would be to go to Okayama, visit Hiroshima from there, then go to Yonago, and fly from Yonago to Tokyo.

For the itin you have shown, I think you need a 14-day or maybe 21-day JR Pass with last day of validity on Halloween.

Thank you for your suggestions. My friend &amp; I enjoy beautiful scenery, small towns &amp; meeting people. We don't mind being on buses or trains for long periods but want to be the most efficient. The main reason for going to Matsumoto was the scenery from there to TAkayama , not the castle as I think we will see plenty of castles. What do you think of staying the night of the 20th in Ogimachi instead of Takayama. My main reason for staying in Takayama is not to have to move luggage around. My friend that we are staying with in Yonago wants to meet us in Himeji&amp; go to the castle with us &amp; we want to spend a night at Mt Koya before we go to Yonago, so is there a better way to do it? Also, the day trip to Hiroshima is in a car with our hosts.(Their suggestion) I was in Yonago 5 years ago with Friendship Force &amp; stayed with the same people. We went to Matsue then, but my friend has not been. However, our time in Yonago will be doing whatever our hosts suggests. And since we wanted to go to Kurashiki they offered to take us there in the car on the last day &amp; to the train. I decided I would rather spend the night in Okayama &amp; go directly to Narita than try to find a place to stay the last night in Tokyo. So do you still think I will need a 21 day pass. I don't know how to find the prices of the individual tickets. Would it be cheaper to get a 14 day pass &amp; buy a ticket from Okayama to Narita? We won't need the train while we are in Yonago.

Another question, Are all the changes from Mt Koya to Yonago from Mt Koya or Himeji? My friend from Yonago will be with us after Himeji so she will know how to do that part of it?

Does anyone know anything about how hard the hike is between Magome &amp; Tsumago? If it is too difficult, my friend may do it &amp; I may take the bus. Do the buses run during that time in October?

Thanks soo much!!!

Take a look at the transportation map on page 3 of this:
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html
That shows some of your transport options.

I've been on the bus from Takayama to Matsumoto and from Takayama to Hirayu Onsen and back. I don't recall those trips as being particularly scenic. Nice, but not wow I want to do that again. Kamikochi is a good stop on the way. I do recall a nice ride through the forest near there, too. But mostly I remember riding in narrow valleys, with the bus following the winding road, and a view of nearby forested hills. Definitely stop at Kamikochi and as soon as you get off the bus get a ticket for your bus to Takayama.

At http://www.hyperdia.com click on the English button and then enter the stations for each segment. You might be able to skip the JR Pass given that you will be doing a lot of non-JR travel and the train trips are spread apart in time.

Tokyo-Nikko and return
Tokyo-Shizuoka
Shizuoka-Nakatsugawa
Nagiso-Matsumoto
Takayama-Kyoto
Kyoto-Nara and return
Kyoto-Koyasan
Koyasan-Himeji
Himeji-Yonago
Okayama-Narita Airport

There is a non-JR pass that you can use for Kyoto-Nara-Koyasan-Himeji. japan-guide.com has a good description of the pass. Kansai area passes.

The connections are from Koyasan to Himeji. After that, to Yonago, is simple. But you'll be able to figure it out. What I was pointing out was that you will spend an extra 6 hours of travel time, and get a tour of a few more stations, just for your one night at Koyasan, when you could be spending another day in Kyoto. I admit it is something I would do if I decided it was worth it. But the long travel days can wear a person down.

Having visited Magome and Tsumago and heading to Ogimachi, Shirakawago, yes you can skip Takayama and go straight on through to spend the night in a gassho zukuri. You will need to be traveling lightly on this trip. One rollaboard.

Wow - looks like you have done a lot of research and reading guide books. That is great. In my opinion, the itinerary looks a little too busy for my taste. Tokyo and Kyoto offer so much to do! There is so much to do, see and experience!

Since your friend and you enjoy beautiful scenery and small towns, I wouldn't recommend more than 5 days in Tokyo (including day trips). However, I think that in order to enjoy Kyoto, you would need to spend at least a week here. That leaves about a week and a half to do the other stuff.

I just think that you will be running from one place to the next w/o spending the time to relax and enjoy. Kyoto is VERY beautiful. Some of the towns you mention are quite interesting and you can perhaps fit these into the week and a half.

Enjoy your trip and safe travels!

I completely agree with mainisha. I fear with this itinerary you will be able to say you &quot;saw&quot; a lot but you will not be really seeing and experiencing it. I can't imagine spending less than 5-7 days in Kyoto. I was there 2 weeks and barely scratched the surface so spending the amount of time you are doesn't begin to do it justice. Seems to me this itinerary will make you an expert on the train system but you may end up seeing less, experiencing less, and learning less about Japan than if you confined yourself to Tokyo, Kyoto and the places where you have friends.

Thanks for all the comments. I have been reading about Shirakawago/Ogimachi tonight &amp; it sounds wonderful. I know this is busy, but I want to see places I haven't been before but at the same time doing some of it over for my friend. I spent a week in Tokyo before &amp; we both prefer small towns. I spent a week in Yonago &amp; then 3 days in Kyoto. This was on a Friendship Force tour so everything was planned. I now think I want to stay a night in Ogimachi. If we go from Tsumago to Takayama instead of going to Matsumoto per mrwunrfl's suggestion,, could we see the sights in TAkayama &amp; get to Shirakawao/Ogimachi the same evening. I realize the days will be shorter so will have fewer travel hours. I don't want to miss seeing anything. Then we could spend 2 nights there before going to Kyoto. If so we would have an extra day in Kyoto.

This forum is awesome!!

Still looking for someone who knows about the hike. Now I'm starting to worry about the weather in Takayama/Shirakawago at that time of year. Does anyone know what to expect?
Which place is more in the mountains, Tsumgo,Takayama or Shirakawago or they the same. I really would like to see pretty scenery.

Really, you can skip Takayama. Some of what you would see in Takayama, Edo period structures, you will already have seen in Magome &amp; Tsumago. A major site in Takayama is the Hida Folk Village, but you don't need to go to that outdoor museum that includes gassho zukuri farmhouses and other traditional Hida farm structure, because you will be going to the real thing in Shirakawago.

It would be a bad plan, imo, to arrive in Shirakawago at night. You really ought to get there before 4PM. Main reason is to be settled in there by dinner time. Plus if you travel in the evening you are giving up any chance of the scenic ride that you are looking for (I don't know what the ride is like).

Spending a day going over the mountains by bus, with a stop for several hours in Kamikochi and then night in Takayama is better than trying to go from Tsumago, blowing thru Takayama and getting to Shirakawago at night.

Shirakawago is really a village and you ought to arrive during business hours otherwise expect to get lost.

I agree that you can skip Takayama. It was the one disappointing place of my trip and definitely the most touristy -- one big souvenier shop.

Thanks again. So you think it is better to go back to my original plan of going to Matsumoto &amp; bus to Takayama? mrwunrfl, from your description, it doesn't sound like what I was expecting. I don't care about seeing forests if you can't see scenic views of the mountains. I had read in a guide that the buses stop running middle of Oct. Is that because of snow? How can I find out if that is true? So now that would be 1 night in Takayama if I can get from Tsumago to Takayama in one day &amp; then 1 night in Ogimachi.
How far apart are Ogimachi &amp; Shirakawago?
Are the best hot springs near Takayama or Is it best to go to a hot spring near Shrakawago?
I looked at the website suggested &amp; Oh MY GOSH, it will take me from now until the day I leave to figure it out!! It looks so complicated. There are so many different prices &amp; directions, I don't know how you know which one. Do I need a reserved seat?
Thanks to all for helping me with this.

Takayama is a nice place to visit, especially if you like to walk or bike. There are some interesting sights and it is a step down in pace after Tokyo. They do have booths set up as a market, on Saturday mornings I think, and just about all of that was cheap souvenirs. The stores on the merchant street also sell a lot of typical souvenirs.

If you skip Magome &amp; Tsumago then it would be worthwhile to stop for a day in Takayama.

Kamikochi has some of the scenery that you are looking for. It is pretty and there is a nice flat walking route, a couple of restaurant/hotels with public baths. On that route through the mountains, after Kamikochi, is Hirayu Onsen. There are a couple of onsen baths in the building where the bus stops and next door.

In Takayama, there is an onsen bath at the Green Hotel.

Enroute to Takayama by rail from Tsumago or from Shizuoka, there is an onsen in Gero. Several places at Gero Onsen to choose from.

Ogimachi means something like &quot;home village&quot;. A &quot;-go&quot; is a larger entity. My understanding is that saying you want to go to ogimachi is like saying you want to go downtown. For this discussion Ogimachi and Shirakawago are the same thing.

I identified, above, the 12 train trips that you are planning. Given your busy itinerary it behooves you to get familiar with hyperdia. It is not that complicated. That does not cover the bus trips. If you search this site then you will find bus schedule info for Shirakawago and maybe for the trip via Kamikochi.

Basically, I was suggesting that you simplify. Instead of four things: 1) Kiso Valley (i.e. Magome &amp; Tsumago), 2) alpine bus ride, 3) Takayama and 4) Shirakawago that you choose three. But when you chose three your choice would have you getting to S-go at night which I don't recommend.

I have been reading &amp; reading &amp; the more I read the more places I want to go. What do you think of my new schedule:
10/10-12 Tokyo (stay with friend)
10/13-15 Shizuoka ( 1 night in lodge with hosts near Mt Fuji)
10/16 Shizuoka-Magome-hike or bus to Tsumago for the night there
10/17 Tsumago-Kamikochi (via Matsumoto) maybe visit castle if bus schedule allows time
10/18 Kamikochi ( day trip to Shin-Hotka hot springs)
10/19 Kamikochi -Takayama-Ogimachi ( stop in Takayama for sightseeing if bus schedule allows time)
10/20 Ogimachi-Kyoto
10/21-24 Kyoto ( day trip to Nara)
10/25 Kyoto-Mt Koya
10/26 Mt Koya-Himeji-Yonago ( meet host in Himeji (train to Yonago)
10/27-30 Yonago stay with friend( days trips to Hiroshima &amp; Kurashiki . I think they are planning this for 2 separate days in their car)
10/31 Yonago-Narita
STill trying to decide about rail passes.
Do you know about the air passes from Yonago to Narita. If we get 14 days pass it will be expired by then. Maybe cheaper &amp; more convienent to get 14 days pass &amp; fly back to Tokyo than the 21 days pass.

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!

what airline are you taking to get to Japan?

American.

What did you think about my schedule? I am getting really excited now that I think I almost have it figured out. Still have to check out the busses in detail more to see if this is possible.
Then I will have to start working on reservations for hotels.

Many thanks!

I am hosting 2 Japanese students from Rikko University in Tokyo this weekend. I don't know how good their English will be. Maybe they can help me with my bus schedules if we have time. I have to entertain them &amp; show them the sites of St Louis. I hope they enjoy it. They will be in St Louis for 3 weeks studying English.

Looks like a lot of fun. It is a busy itinerary but you will get to see quite a bit of Japan that most people don't get to see.

Am not sure where Shin Hotaka is but I think it is near Hirayu? Might be just as easy to go on to Takayama for the night.

Also, don't forget to check to see what weekend the Takayama autumn festival is held.

The reason I asked about the airline was because both ANA and JAL have special fares for foreign visitors. Some require taking two flights. The best is from JAL and requires only one flight if you fly to Japan on a partner of theirs, like AA. But JAL doesn't fly from Yonago, ANA does. ANA connects thru Nagoya to Narita airport. They might have nonstops to Haneda. JAL flys from Oki, north of Yonago, and Izumo, to the west and west of Matsue (too far).

My Japanese students are gone &amp; now I'm back to trying to figure this all out. They have not been to as many places in Japan as I have. And we didn't have time to look at schedules.

ANA told me it has to be round trip to get the pass. So I'm still not sure if it is best to get the 21 day pass or fly from Yonago.
Kamikochi sounds like a place we would like better than Takayama &amp; Shin-Hotka is a hot springs near there that sounds great. Now I am concened about the weather. How can I find out how cold to expect it to be around 10/18 ? Unfortunately, the Takayama festival is the 9 &amp; 10th before we get there. Thanks for all the suggestions.