sarahobrant

We're heading off to Japan for our 3rd trip in Mid June..and really torn about where to go after Tokyo. Will be in Tokyo for 3 days on business...already been to kyoto (which we did not love despite how much everyone told us we would love it ...to industrialized and not what we anticipated) went to Hakone -enjoyed that. Some ideas we are considering Nara, Takayama, Alps, Hiroshima. Any suggestions - ideally - we'd like to experience more tranquil quaint side of Japan - perhaps hiking.

Also - does anyone know the best/direct train route from tokyo to takayama? Any ideas?

btw, last trip we stayed at hotel seiyo ginza...by far one of the nicest hotels i've stayed at - we are staying there again...and i NEVER stay in the same hotel twice!! highly recommend it.

Florence

WHAT ? your did not like Kyoto ? Do you realise you're breaking THE main rule about travelling to Japan ? ;-)

Seriously, you should consider the island of Shikoku: not as touristy as the mainland, more rural, smaller cities. I spent 2 days in Takamatsu and 1 in Naruto (worth the trip just for the whirlpools), and I regret I didn't spend more time exploring the area. Going there from Tokyo is easy: you can either take the Shinkansen to Okayama and then change for the Marîne liner to Takamatsu, or to Osaka and take a bus to Tokushima.

mrwunrfl

You'd want to take the shinkansen from Tokyo to Nagoya (2 hours) and then change to the "Tokaido & Takayama" line. The line runs between Nagoya and Toyama. The trip is 2.5 hours to 3.5 hours from Nagoya to Takayama depending on which train you take (some have more local stops).

Take a look up north, around Tazawa-ko, west/northwest of Morioka. Or farther north. It is not that far from Tokyo, e.g. you can get from Morioka to Tokyo in 2 hours 21 min. (add an hour and a half from Akita).

Peter N.H. had a post about hiking. I'll see if I can find it.

mrwunrfl

It was in a post entitled "Tsumago" that Peter N-H described "a superb walking trip along the Nakasendo (see www.walkjapan.com)".

PeterN_H

I'd like to re-recommend the Nakasendo trip. But if you are following up mrwnrfl's suggestion of the Tazawa-ko area, book yourself for one night into Tsurunoyu, one of the most traditional onsen experiences you'll find in Japan, and my all-time favourite. Hundred-year-old wooden dining hall and fabulous local food; traditional wooden, tatami-floored accommodation; 400-year-old rotemburo (outdoor hotspring bath) which is one of the last remaining to be konryoku (mixed sex, but all done with typical Japanese restraint and courtesy). The place practically defines 'tranquil' (you take a bus from Tazawa-ko station and then are collected by the resort's own bus, and taken up a long private road into the hills) and 'quaint'. But you shouldn't tackle this one unless you are fully familiar and comfortable with the etiquette of such places and not prudish (bathing is done naked, of course, and there are certain procedures a foreigner needs to follow more rigorously even than others, to set Japanese minds at rest). The place was under snow when I went, and sitting neck deep in the milky mineral-rich outdoor pool fed by a trickle of steaming water along a bamboo trough, while snowflakes fell electrically on my head, is something I'll long remember. The only sounds were birdsong, the rushing of a river passing just before the bath, the bubbles of gas from the bottom of the pool, and the odd splosh of snow sliding off the bamboo into the pool.

I think advance booking is essential here, so plan ahead.

Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

sarahobrant

thank you for all the great ideas.

Now, i'm torn - We have 4 days after our biz trip. Before i read your replies - i was thinking nagano, takayama kanazawa. or yamagata, tomo tazawako. None of you mentioned takayama - which i had read was terrific. We are more interested in cute towns or nature hiking rather than onsen... We were even thinking to rent a car - so we could do more exploring.

Florence - i've used so much of your advice along the way on previous trips - so thanks....yes, i know ...about kyoto. We were told so many times that to experience the real japan...see kyoto. our expectations were high - and we really love tokyo - and so we had something in our minds about kyoto - i was picturing a quaint beautiful architecture town - not s industrialized ....that wasn't what we expected. so many people love it - that i will chalk it up to - we missed it. one advice i would have ...is that we rented bikes from the post office..which was a GREAT way to get around kyoto...

PeterN_H

For the 'cute towns' and 'nature hiking' combination, I don't think the Nakasendo can be beaten. The walk up over Bird-Gate Pass and down to Narai is particularly nice. The Tsumago section is nice, too, but has more visitors.

What about Koya-San? I didn't take it, but isn't there a hiking trail (pilgrimage route) leading up to it ('it' being a mountain topped with temples many of which accept guests, and which include superb meals in the room rate, and an option to rise early and observe the ceremonies). Doesn't quite have the 'cute town' factor, but things don't come much more authentically Japanese.

Incidentally, I agree with the enthusiasm for the Seiyo Ginza. I've stayed there a couple of times, both under the Japanese management and the current American one. Do consider the Park Hyatt, too--if you can get in, that is.

I'm not familiar with Takayama, but I have been to Kanazawa, and toured the Noto Hanto. That would probably suit you quite well.

Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

mrwunrfl

Haven't been to Takayama, though I definitely wanted to visit there. Others on this forum have said it was great. My experience of Kanazawa is that it's your basic Japanese city, but one with a wonderful garden park.

There is a small town, I forget the name, that is only accessible by bus. You would catch the bus from a stop on that Tokaido&Takayama line, I think. Distinctive architecture, pointed roofs? Sorry, this vague, I only read about this place. I think it is east of the T&T rail line and accessible from the east by a bus from one of the lines that goes in the direction of Nagano or Matsumoto. I'll see if I can find the name of the place.

You say "too industrialized", do you really mean factories and smokestacks or do you really mean "too urban, too much of a big city"?

sarahobrant

thanks again for the advice. to answer your question "mrwunrfl" too industrialized to me...meant - not really that pretty - of course the gardens and temples are beautiful...but kyoto itself - was not a beautiful /interesting little city...it was about the temples - but outside of that ...it looked like a city designed in the industrial revolution. I am a city girl - so i love tokyo, paris, nyc, boston, phila..etc..so it's not that i don't like cities...in case anyone else was interested.

mrwunrfl

I see. Kyoto is a big city with some islands of beauty/tranquility. You want a San Francisco with some hiking, or a Japanese version of Colonial Williamsburg. In that case, I won't recommend Nara, though I normally would. Hiroshima also would not be for you, since you won't find any old town there. I have read that Nagasaki has some charm.

kite

"There is a small town, I forget the name.."

mrwunrfl, do you mean Shirakawago, 5th photos on the following page, maybe?
http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~mejina/naka.html

addwag

would any of these places be ok for non-japanese speaking 1st timers to japan?? they sounds like exactly what we are looking for

PeterN_H

Surely one of the pleasures of Japan is the willingness of Japanese (who automatically assume foreigners have not a word of their language anyway) to volunteer their help? The JNTO produces printed materials in English about just about every corner of Japan, there are travel information offices everywhere, Roman script is very common on signs, and there are dozens of guide books. I think you can venture anywhere in Japan, first time or not. There are a few places and situations where a little preliminary study of etiquette is a good idea (such as Tsurunoyu, mentioned above), but in general as long as you've mastered simple ideas such as when to take off your shoes (which you need even for the biggest city), anywhere goes.

Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

addwag

thats good to know; my husband knows japanese enough to get around and have a basic conversation but we have never been; are there places we can get a suggestion itnerary from with where to stay? we really want a non-tourist non-american experience (or as much as possible) and are looking at going in late august or September

mrwunrfl

Yes kite! That is the place! Here are a couple more links about Shirakawago:
http://www.shirakawa-go.gr.jp/English/index-e.htm
http://www.fgautron.com/shirakawago.html
(One of the pages seemed to say that credit cards aren't accepted there and that you can't get JPY currency with a cc (or maybe it was saying there is no currency exchange there).


What you will get, addwag, is a tourist, non-American experience anywhere you go in Japan. Most of your fellow tourists will be Japanese and you have no chance of being mistaken for a local!

If you learn how to say "excuse me" and "I am sorry" in Japanese and then use them together, and often, then you are good to go.

addwag

is there a someplace I can find realistic itneraries online or otherwise (kinda like rick steves europe books but for japan) to know how many days to spend where, where to stay and how to get around; for example we were looking at flying into toyko then going to Takamatsu to Naruto to
Tsumago
Tsurunoyu for sure
Nakasendo
Koya-San
Nagasaki
Shirakawago

etc but I have no idea if some of these we should skip or some of these are too similar? and what order to go in
I am basically really lost and unsure where to start planning (if you couldnt tell)
my email [email protected]
but will check post soon

mrwunrfl

Ok, addwag. You can get a guide book, like Fodor's, that will give you a lot of info about where to go, where to stay, and how to get around.

If that's your list of where you want to go, then you need to get a map and figure out how to get around. You'll need to figure out how much time to spend at those places. For this info, I recommend contacting the Japan National Tourist Organization (JNTO) on the web at www.jnto.go.jp When you call them, have a list of things you want info about, mention your destinations and also ask for info about Japan Rail and domestic air travel.

For Japan Rail (JR) passes and other info about JR, see www.japanrail.com

There are discount airfares for tourists available, see www.fly-ana.com and www.japanair.com You might find some great airfares, but otherwise your JR Pass is all you would need.

After you figure out where these places are and how to get around, then you'll figure out the order of things and what you have to skip based on the time you have. More homework to do.

sarahobrant

i recommend the fodors japan book. it gives sample itineraries - and then you can go onto this site and put in specific places and see what people have said about them. the only thing about the fodors book - is that it's pretty neutral about the descriptions -so it doesn't give you too much about don't miss this ...or miss that ...but that you can get from the generous people on this site.

AndrewDavid

Dear sarahobrant,
The guide we have used for all of our Japan trips is Kodansha's Gateway to Japan. Packed full of information. that's how we navigated from Matsumoto ( great castle and ukiyoe museum to the Nakasendo and down toward Nagoya taking in the weird and wonderful Meiji-mura. Ditto for loop from Kanazawa through Japanese alps to Takeyama. I would also second the suggestion of Koyasan fabulous temples and cemeteries set in a cryptomeria forest absolutely magical and the best of temple food we ever experienced

AndrewDavid

sarahobrant

andrewdavid...thanks for the information. i'll try to get it tomorrow...we're leaving monday. we are planning to travel from tokyo to takayama (via nagoya)..and then to tsumago /magome for nakasendo trip. We are staying at rickshaw in takayama...but don't have a reservation yet in tsumago or magome.. any suggestions...