ekscrunchy

After our Pandaw/Burma trip, we (myself and my 2 older friends) plan to fly to China. We will have about 1 week split between Shanghai and Hong Kong. I have visited both of these cities before, but my last trip to HK was in the 80s. My friends have never been to either city, or to Asia for that matter.

I had planned to fly Mandalay-Kunming-Shanghai. I have now discovered that I can also fly Mandalay-Kunming-Hangzhou.

We could then spend 2 nights/1 day in Hangzhou and take the fast train to Shanghai.

BUT: With a total of only about 1 week to visit both Shanghai andHK (I might be able to extend my own trip but my friends will not; we plan to take the overnight train from Shanghai to Hong Kong), should we take time away from Shanghai/HK to visit Hangzhou?

Beyond the lake and gardens, does the city have lots to offer first-time tourists? Are the lake and gardens staggeringly beautiful? (I realize this is subjective, but want to get some opinions). Is the feel of the city markedly different from that of Shanghai? What about the food--are there local specialties worth seeking out and even planning a short stay around? Is there wonderful shopping?

The train ride between the 2 cities does sound exciting; I believe it takes only about 90 minutes. Another option would be to take a day trip, by train, from Shanghai to Hangzhou. We could decide this once we arrive in Shanghai.

Please feel free to comment.

1. Fly to Hanghzou
2. Do a day trip to HAngzhou from Shanghai
3. Skip Hangzhou
4. Promptly fall asleep after reading yet another unanswerable ekscrunchy query

Many thanks!

Marija

I'm probably in the minority but I wasn't overwhelmed by Hangzhou. West Lake is beautiful and I really enjoyed getting up very early and watching morning exercises. When we were there in 2004 the area around the lake was under construction and it was difficult to get around. Like most cities in China Hangzhou is huge and due to incredible congestion it took us about an hour by cab to get from the train station to the hotel. We went to the silk market in town and that was a waste of time. The local delicacies, including water shield soup, are interesting but not particularly memorable (for us). We only spent two nights there, taking the train from Shanghai, so our sample is small. My favorite memory of Hangzhou is floating on the lake and having the solitude disturbed by the boatman's cell phone. I liked HK and Shanghai better than Hangzhou.

thursdaysd

Clearly this is a YMMV issue, as my reaction was quite opposite to Marija's! Great find on the flights, eks, and I would say to go for option 1. I should perhaps say that I'm not a Shanghai fan, any more than I'm a Bangkok fan, and only went back to get more time in the Art Museum! Hangzhou, however, is on my revisit list.

To address Marija's points: I was in Hangzhou on National Day '04, the most crowded time of the year, and still enjoyed it - although I'd want to go back when it's quieter. It didn't take an hour to reach my hotel from the station: there was a long line of people waiting for cabs but it moved fast, although it did take a long time to get a boat from one of the islands back to shore. I didn't have any other trouble moving around, aside from the crowds. Since I'm not a shopper I never went near the silk market, but I had a great time in Lingyin Si, the Temple of Inspired Seclusion, although it was anything but secluded that day.

There seemed to be a lot of choice in food, both eastern and western. My notes mention chicken tandoori and Irish coffee with a good view (Paradise Cafe), seafood risotto and red wine, and pizza and "fab" cappuccino (Gino's Cafe). Seems I didn't eat Chinese - in my defense, I'd just survived a month in Russia and on the Trans-Mongolian, and a week in Mongolia, and I expected to eat Chinese for the next six weeks.

So, clearly this isn't an unanswerable question, but you have to decide between the answers! If your friends have never been to Asia, and may not get back to China, I would highly recommend the stop in Hangzhou. My train from Shanghai was a fast day train, with soft, partially reclining seats, so it will be slightly different experience to the night train. I left by bus headed for Putuoshan, so didn't get to check out the airport.

Nywoman

The weather was very bad when I was in Hangzhou and really didn't see much of the city, since I stayed by the lake. I did have a very good Chinese meal at Grandmothers Kitchen which was in a very upscale shopping center on the 8th floor.

I don't think there are any particular gardens there, the temple was lovely and interesting with the Buddahs.

I did not particularly like Shanghai, or not as much as many other places in China but I am not a shopper per se.

ekscrunchy

Thanks so much! I will do some reading and once I refine the itinerary and see exactly how many days we have to play with, I might come back with more questions. One of my travel companions is a train-o-phile (I know there is a better word for this..but I can't think of it now!) so he might want to visit just to take the new fast train... (He also wants to see the shipping docks in Shanghai (??), which will be another story!)

indiancouple

Would recommend that you go to Hangzhou, and do a day trip to Shanghai if necessary. The most interesting part of Shanghai, the Bund, is undergoing a lot of construction work on the embankment, and you can barely walk along the Bund presently.

Did not notice any construction work in Hangzhou, and found it far more beautiful as a city.

thursdaysd

"I don't think there are any particular gardens there" - I did find some rather nice gardens - flowers, fountains and bonsai - but they were a bit out of the way.

Are you planning to visit Suzhou? The gardens there are quite different and really worth seeing.

ekscrunchy

IndianCouple: I like Shanghai a lot (I visited on my own in 2007) and my friends have never been, so we want to base there. But you present an interesting alternative.

I wonder if the construction is taking place for the upcoming (2010) Fair--we will not be there until March 2010, so perhaps it will be completed by then. (???)

BTW: I loved your report and will surely refer to it often while engaged in planning this trip! Thanks again for taking the time to jot everything down!

Thursday: I don't think there is time for Suzhou. I want to spend at least 4 days in HK, so the time is tight. Hangzhou occurred to me when I found the flights from Kunming. Of course, we could skip Hangzhou and do a daytrip to Suzhou.....I think I need to go back to the "books."

I've remember reading disparate opinions of Hangzhou vs Suzhou but have to refresh my memory about these. If there is a "fast"train from Shanghai, Suzhou could be an option but we cannot include both cities, in addition to Shanghai.

thursdaysd

Tough choice, eks. I loved the gardens in Suzhou, but the city itself isn't inspiring. If you do go, try to see the Embroidery place - the work is amazing. But given you could fly in, I'd vote for Hangzhou for this trip. IndianCouple's suggestion is intriguing, although I don't know whether the HK train stops in Hangzhou.

thursdaysd

Maybe these will help... My (totally unedited) pix for Hangzhou and Suzhou are here: kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/287618 - passwords hangzhou and suzhou

ekscrunchy

Thursday I just finished looking through these--coming from you I expected them to be good and was not disappointed. The silk-making in Suzhou was particularly fascinating. But BOTH cities are tempting!

Thanks so much for posting the photo link!

thursdaysd

You're welcome - so glad you liked them. I agree, it's a really tough decision. I spent two nights in Suzhou, which let me go to the evening performances at the Master of Nets, which was my favorite garden - I thought the much bigger Humble Administrator's garden was less interesting - but one night would be enough for that.

On balance, I think there's more to do in Suzhou. In addition to lots of gardens, there are the Silk and Embroidery tourist sites, the canals, Tiger Hill (although I only really enjoyed that because there was a festival going on), and I seem to remember a big pagoda on one of the main streets. Hangzhou is really one temple (but a big one), and the lake.

I was able to figure out the buses in Suzhou - there were useful maps on the main streets - but with three of you I'd likely plan on taxis. I think there's a fast commuter type train between Shanghai and Suzhou.

Cat12345

"The pagoda on one of the main streets" in Suzhou is called North Temple Pagoda.
Hangzhou also has a pagoda called "Six Harmonies Pagoda" other than the big temple, "Ling Ying Temple".
Touch choice between Suzhou & Hangzhou!
Want to see Boston or Washington D.C. from NYC!

Cat12345

Should be tough choice above.