Visited Mogan Mountain a couple of years ago when we were in Hangzhou. It's certainly off the foreign visitors path, but popular with locals. Went there when I was a kid with my parents (my father carried me on his back) so I didn't remember much then. We were told the bus was slow and didn't run on time, so we hired an SUV with driver for the day by the train station for Y150/$18! It's approx. 2 hours to the foot of the mountain and another 1/2 hr to the village Yinshan Jie (Shady Mountain Avenue). Before the road was paved people treked up the mountain on foot, or were carried up by villagers in bamboo sedan chairs on poles.

The mountain is as gorgeous as the movie shows, covered with bamboo with a light mist floating around much cooler than Hangzhou. It snows in winter making the road icy and slippery so there are no tourists and the hotels are closed. There were 4-5 nice hotels, one with a pool and tennis court, and several restaurants. Dozens of villas were hidden in the bamboo forest, as the mountain has been a summer resort for the wealthy and powerful since the 19th century. It was also a favorite with poets and painters. The cuisine takes advantage of local produce, fresh bamboo shoots (bien jien), dried bamboo shoots (sun gan), fresh water fish/shrimp and vegetables. A couple of roadside stalls were selling trinkets also made of bamboo, we bought coasters, necklaces and purses adorned with bamboo beads.

A daytrip was definitely hurried, one can spend a week hiking different trails to numerous scenic spots including temples, pavilions, waterfalls and caves. Watching sunrise on top of the mountain is a special treat. We were there in fall and the yellow, orange and red leaves were a brilliant sight scattered inbetween the bamboo. There were aboundant wildlife of small animals and birds. All in all, a fabulous place for relaxation.

Perhaps those of you who live in China can make Mogan Shan your next destination.

Just returned from a month-long trip to Asia, mostly to some out-of-the-way places in China.

I would second the suggestions for Chengde (no air from Beijing, best by train). It was the best city for giving a sense of what life was like for the Ch'ing emperors. Beijing is so overdeveloped. Beautiful parks in Chengde.

Try to stay in the Shanzhuang Binguan (Mountain Villa Hotel). It's right across from the the Mountain Retreat itself and is moderately priced. As you get off the train, just take a taxi to your hotel. Do not fall for any of the very aggressive touts who want to "show" you the sights. You don't need them if you stay at the Mountain Villa Hotel, you just go across the street and you'll be inside the magnificent imperial retreat. We did not have the time to see the hunting grounds, but one visitor said that he enjoyed that part of the imperial compound the best.

Also second the suggestion of Shaoxing. Since I am not enamoured of anything that is "modern" China, I passed on the Lu Xun sights. The price of admission has doubled to 60 Yuan! You will have to decide whether this is interesting for you or not.

The best part of Shaoxing were out of town. If you see the formal gardens in Suzhou first, you will find the "informal" Lan Ting gardens in Shaoxing a delightful contrast.

From Lan Ting, at the bus stop for the return trip to town, if you look towards the hills, you will see a gigantic billboard advertising Yin Shan Yueguo Wang Ling (Seal Mount). THERE IS NO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION to Seal Mount. We hiked the 2-3KM in and out. I personally enjoyed the hike very much, passing a great many tea plantations. The other way to this historic site is by taxi from downtown Shaoxing, which I would suggest you do.

You could negotiate for a taxi to take you to both Seal Mount and to Lan Ting. The taxi can wait for you and you will not have to pay until you are returned safely to your hotel.

Contrary to what Peter has advised, I would suggest also seeing the "Monument" to Yu the Great. In a way, it's like visiting Camelot, if you were into Arthurian legends or visiting Mount Ararat, if you are into the story of Noah. The Chinese regard Yu the Great as the founder of the first Chinese dynasty, the Xia dynasty. So, this is supposedly where China started its long history.

The place to stay is the Shaoxing Guoji Dajiudian. For a max of $80 US a night, you get a fairly luxurious room with all Western amenities. There is a wonderful restaurant on the top, the 23rd, floor. Try to dine before 9 pm as things shut down early in Shaoxing.

The Ba Zi Qiao is the only remaining bridge of its sort in Shaoxing. It is famous because it is an arched bridge built completely without mortar or other aids and still standing simply on the way the stones were fitted together.

Shaoxing is only 55 minutes by aircon bus from Hangzhou. We opted to stay the night in Shaoxing and take the early morning bus to Hangzhou.

Both Chengde and Shaoxing are not as touristy and therefore were delightful to visit.

If you have to travel a long distance, get the soft sleeper on the train. It's much better than the bus, a lot more room and a lot more restful.

Hope this helps a bit! Have a great trip!

Thank you for the report, Easytraveler, and especially the details about Shaoxing. We are now planning on 3 nights in Shaoxing, or 2 full days - thinking it will be a nice change from the more popular tourist areas. Quick questions:

We have reservations at the Shaoxing International, where you stayed, and were able to arrange rooms @about $80 nightly including tax and breakfast. However, we've arranged 2 rooms, and I'm wondering if you found the rooms had 2 double beds, fitting 2 adults and 2 kids? We have 2 teens, and all the hotels we've contacted in China claim a room limit of 3 (at least long distance, since I understand that in person everything is negotiable).

Also, I've been reading Lu Xun (in translation - I speak no Chinese) since Peter mentioned him in reference to Shaoxing, so I'm curious -- what is the area with the Lu Xun sights like? Is the area itself rather modern, or were you not interested because he was of the modern school? His writing is really very interesting, shedding light on the traditional Confucian societal order that existed before the Revolution, and which I gather remains part of the culture to some lesser degree.

Did you get out to the tea "museum" the tourbooks mention? And see the tea ceremony? We're wondering if this is a tourist trap, or worth seeing.

And, lastly -- did you try the famous Shaoxing wine? And how about their equally famous dishes -- "stinky tofu" and "drunken chicken?"

Thanks again.

Since of the five sites directly connected with Lu Xun in Shaoxing all but one (the hagiographic museum, similar to those in Beijing and just about everywhere else Lu Xun spent five minutes) are ancient buildings, the objection to them on the grounds of Lu Xun's modernity is misleading. One of them is a nicely preserved Qing-era schoolroom, another an old house where Lu Xun was born and brought up, which has his bed and the room where he wrote a famous story about an attempt at modern living (outside wedlock--shocking in its day), and another is the family's ancestral home, which doubles as a small but interesting museum of folk arts.

Lu Xun is the only writer of note to be praised both by the official Party line and by those completely opposed to it, and is thought by many (quite independently of the Party's view) to be the most significant Chinese author of the 20th. century.

He lays the blame for China's innumerable troubles squarely at the feet of the Chinese themselves, who he excoriates for their hapless backsliding, ignorance, and faintheartedness, and his view was that the revolution of 1911 only replaced one set of scoundrels with another. It's that view, and certain proto-revolutionary activities (and his immense popularity to this day) which make the Communist Party keen to adopt him as one of their own. But there's no doubt that were he alive today he would be saying stridently (from exile or jail) that after 1949 a third set of scoundrels had replaced the previous two lots. He's the only officially approved writer to be popular with young people today otherwise reading Wang Shuo or trash like Mian Mian. There's really no one quite like him (although you might well also enjoy Lao She).

Modern he may be in that his pre-Communist-era, century-old opinions (thus hardly modern in most senses of the word) remain highly relevant, and his writings are extremely vivid. But the house where he was born dates from the early 1800s, the ancestral home is even earlier, and the schoolroom from the late Qing. There are other old buildings in the same area, through which one of the narrow canals flows, and it would be a shame to miss it, as it would the area known as 'The Master Calligrapher's Native Place'.

Peter N-H
http://members.shaw.ca/pnhpublic/China.html

Hello, Ed!

Glad you decided to spend some time in Shaoxing! Hope you get good weather! Yes, it'll be a break from all the touristy places, although Shaoxing itself does have some visitors.

Sorry if my posting was misleading. I was not trying to imply that the Lu Xun sites are not worth visiting. Just me, personally, I'm not into Lu Xun, just like I'm not into Kafka or James Joyce. Lu Xun is as important a writer as Peter has so eloquently written.

Furthermore, as an additional personal note, I found the entire Lu Xun area "upgraded" to a super tourist spot. I tend to flee from these super tourist spots. On the other hand, for you, if you were to go to Shaoxing and not see the various buildings associated with Lu Xun - well, that would be kind of a tragedy.

It's all a matter of personal interests. I'm more into classical things, so the highlights for me were the visits to ancient Buddhist caves, to imperial gardens, etc. Which is just the long way around of urging you to visit the Lu Xun sites and to read his writings in translation. They are outrageously blunt comments on the socio-economic-political atmosphere that is the complexity of China.

There is also the former residence of Zhou Enlai in Shaoxing, if you are interested in another modern Chinese personage.

As I had mentioned, the highlights of Shaoxing for me were slightly out of town. If you do go to the Lan Ting gardens, the #3 bus runs along SHENGLI (XI) LU, not Jiefang Lu - as almost all the English-language guidebooks seem to indicate.

YES! I did try the famous Shaoxing wine! I tried it in the restaurant at the top of the Shaoxing International hotel. It was very good! I had a small bottle all to myself, while my companion had a couple of local beers - also very good. BTW, there is a "supermarket" right across from the Shaoxing International, if you want to pick up a couple of bottles of their wine. Prices at the supermarket were very reasonable.

I also tried their "drunken chicken" but found it to be not very outstanding. As for "stinky tofu" - never touch the stuff. Another personal preference, just like I don't eat durian either. I asked a Shaoxing taxi driver about "stinky tofu" and got a dissertation in response. Stinky tofu is either a religion or an all-consuming passion in Shaoxing, I haven't quite figured it out yet! Anyhow, the gist of what he said was that - alas! - the stinky tofu of today is nowhere as good as the stinky tofu of yesterday. That's because today it's mass produced, whereas before, it was made by individual families who made sure that the "mold" aged properly -kind of like the subject of cheese in some European countries.

The tea museum - are you talking about the tea museum in Hangzhou? I was driven around the Longjing tea area, but did not go to the museum. I've found that on the subject of tea - another dissertation topic, just like talking about wine in France - the best and most illuminating conversations were with the personnel in the Museum of Teaware in Hong Kong. They tended to be more objective and less interested in pushing wares.

Lastly, the price you got for the Shaoxing International is at the high end. Since it is at the high end, I wouldn't hesitate, on arrival, to negotiate for a suite or something like that which will allow all four of you to stay together. They may claim that they are "full" and not be able to accommodate you, but persist and you may just get what you want on the 2nd and 3rd nights. BTW, the breakfast is very, very adequate and you can eat all you want to. There's the omelette chef, then there's toast, cereal, sausages, etc. as well as some Chinese breakfast stuff. If the four of you eat your fill at breakfast, then $80 is pretty inexpensive for one room.

Well, you're getting me excited about your trip! Have a fine time!

There's no mold involved in the production of chou doufu ("stinky" tofu).

Cubes of doufu are marinaded in a previously prepared brine in which a selection of vegetables and herbs (and sometimes shrimp) have been fermented. Micro-organisms in the brine give the doufu a spongy quality, and when it is cooked the pungent smell is released.

Given the potential for contamination of the fermented marinade, to have the doufu mass-produced under more controlled conditions (one hopes) is rather a good thing.

In Shaoxing the smell reaches out of the restaurants into your bus; it may remind some of a more pungent version of the smell of fermenting kimchi. There is little connection between the smell and the taste, which is mild, although in different parts of China it may be dressed up with chili sauce and other condiments. In Shaoxing it may arrive with a touch of "numb spice" (prickly ash).

Shaoxing merely claims to be the point of origin for this dish. It's widely available in eastern China, pleasant to eat, and its smell is no more noxious or related to taste than that of certain ripe cheeses. In Hong Kong a street vendor of chou doufu was famously fined three times for causing air pollution. In Taipei the smell wafts around the street markets where it is also popular. If you live anywhere with a large Chinatown you'll probably be able to try it at home.

Drunken chicken is a dish which appears on many mainstream Chinese restaurant menus overseas. (My mother-in-law makes an excellent version at home--rather better than the one I had in Shaoxing, I thought.)

Peter N-H
http://members.shaw.ca/pnhpublic/China.html

Peter: I know this is straying from Travel talk, could you please consult your mother-in-law, is it true the more expensive the wine used the tastier the drunken chicken? I heard that from a waiter in Wuxi when we were served Lake Tai drunken shrimp. Thank you.

I love stinky tofu. Never had the Shaoxing version, but the Taiwanese love it. Here in Houston, there are many Taiwanese eateries that serve them. In Hong Kong, they are often limited to illegal food carts, since not everybody there likes the smell. Regular Cantonese restaurants do not sell them (and drive away other customers).

Thank you all for the dissertations on cuisine as well as travel -- and the literary discussion, Peter. Lu Xun's stories really provide a glimpse of a very different world with stereotyped relationships very foreign to Western sensibilities - between classes, relatives, etc. He moves from biting, hysterical satire to some very personalized, poignant and moving insights. I can't say that the descriptions of the stinky tofu sound too exciting, but I'm sure I'll try it (and not the rest of my family, if it's that smelly!) I gather that Peter's reference to ripe cheese is related only to the analogy about the relation of smell to taste? And not that stinky tofu actually tastes like ripe cheese? Does it taste like anything Western? Is it sour or sweet, salty, etc? We have spent a lot of time in Chinatowns where we've lived or where there have been Taiwanese restaurants (most recently the San Francisco area), so I'm sure the unfamiliar smells we've encountered at times must be this dish.....

And, is the Shaoxing wine very thick and sweet? From Lu Xun's stories, I somehow imagine it this way, served hot in the wine shops. Do they have shops like that anymore? They sound like a cross between bars and tea houses, with, I gather, men sitting around for long periods socializing?

And, Easytraveler, you're right, don't know what I was thinking. I was in fact wondering about the tea area near Hangzhou. Not being much of a tea connoisseur, I'm wondering if we'll really be able to taste much difference.

The Shaoxing 'yellow' rice wine comes in various varieties including some that are red, thin, and sweet. Used in cooking it largely evaporates in the process, of course, but then waiters want you to buy the most expensive dish or to justify the high price of the one they serve you. The most expensive wine is that which is deemed to taste better and that quality is largely lost in the cooking process. In ordinary households it's made with standard cooking wine, or indeed without wine at all.

As for wine shops, those are largely gone, although I've seen in Simao in Yunnan shops where you can have the wine (always rice or sorghum, not grape, remember) drained from barrels straight into the container you bring. However, Shaoxing has the Xianheng Jiudian, said to have been originally set up in 1894 by some relatives of Lu Xun, and featured in his famous short story about an intellectual bum called Kong Yiji. This is a very simple, concrete-floored restaurant, and whatever its authenticity is popular with locals. Wine is sold by the measure, and local dishes such as stinky doufu are available.

Chou doufu tastes like... doufu, with a slightly sour taste perhaps, and whatever seasonings or sauces are added is what counts. There's no need to make a meal of making a meal of it.

Sometimes the cubes are fried, which tends to seal in the smell, and sometimes the doufu is in sheets layered with other things and steamed, such as in mei qian zhang zheng rou bing, 'rotten thousand sheet steamed meat cake' in literal translation. In short, just about everything is done with it which is done with regular doufu, and in my view it's best simply steamed (qing zheng chou doufu).

Peter N-H
http://members.shaw.ca/pnhpublic/China.html

Hi, Ed!

Thanks for starting an interesting thread!

I now know more about stinky doufu than I'd ever really wanted to know! I love doufu, just not aged doufu. IMHO, the fresher the doufu, the better it tastes!

A more interesting culinary adventure in this part of China and for your whole family might be a seafood restaurant - the kind where every variety of seafood is displayed - LIVE! Lobsters, shrimp, fish, snails, turtles, frogs, etc. etc. and including some land varieties, like snake. Everything is squirming, wiggling, and swimming. Kids find wandering among the fish tanks a fascinating adventure.

You usually first get to choose some appetizers from an immense display of tremendous variety. Then, from a menu, you can select the kinds of seafood you want and how you want it all cooked. Perhaps someone on this thread can give you names of specific restaurants. The ones in Shanghai tend to be the most sophisticated - with prices to match. The best seafood restaurant of this type for me was one we stumbled into in Ningbo and then stumbled out, never really registering the name of the place! Hope you like seafood!

Whether to visit the tea museum or not - that's a bit of a tough call. Unlike Peter, I'm not a travel writer, and so can only give you subjective, personal likes/dislikes. The Hangzhou tea museum itself is quite large and will you give you a good idea of how tea was prepared over the centuries - methods changed. There will also be, I'm sure, displays of teaware, such as the famous yixing teaware, as well as teapots/cups in interesting shapes.

As for sampling tea, yes, you will definitely be able to taste the differences. Your wife would probably enjoy the tea "pearls"/"buds". These are usually the flowered teas and when the teaball is infused with hot water, a beautiful flower will unfold and float gently in the teapot. Needless to say, the ideal teapot for this type of tea is a glass teapot, through which you can observe each unfolding of the teaball. Be prepared to carry a fragile glass teapot in your luggage after you go through the great Unfolding Teaball Ceremony. Just kidding!

There is so much to do in Hangzhou that you'll have to decide what to visit and what to miss, based on the tastes of your family. However, Hangzhou does stand for tea and silk.

Oh, one last thing about touring Hangzhou - this last time I finally succumbed to paying for a ride in those open, golf-cart like vehicles. It was wonderful. I wish I had done this on my very first trip to Hangzhou. The motorized carts - with a fringe on the top - circle completely around West Lake. One entire circle costs 40 yuan (slightly less than $5) per person. Or you can divide up the trip, which is sold in 10 yuan segments. My driver/guide was quite knowledgeable and provided a lot of interesting details, unfortunately, these drivers seem to speak only Chinese.

Do write a report on your return! I'm certain we will all be very interested - especially if you tried stinky doufu or not!

Very interesting thread. We enjoyed Hangzhou but we only spent a day or 2 there. While the Shangri-La may be a bit pricey, they had the best breakfast buffet of our entire trip. The quality and assortment of foods was surprising compared to the 4 and 5 star hotels that we visited in China.

Let's just get this right. Stinky doufu isn't aged, either. It's fresh doufu which is marinaded for no more than a few hours in a fermented broth before cooking in many of the ways non-marinaded doufu is cooked.

The tea ceremony, etc. is indeed a 'tourist trap'. Hangzhou, as mentioned in a much earlier post, is well used to tourists and to separating them from money for ersatz experiences. Every Chinese town has its tea shops which offer tastings (sometimes it seems they're on almost every street corner). If you're in Beijing a whole street of tea merchants can be recommended with samples from throughout China, and not selling at tourist prices.

Peter N-H
http://members.shaw.ca/pnhpublic/China.html

I suppose "age" is a relative term, whether it's been a few hours, a few minutes, a few days or a few thousand years, as is the claim for "thousand year old" eggs. How about "artificially tampered with"? Guess someone will take issue with that term as well.

My point is that I like tofu in its "unfettered" form and then cooked or, best, just mixed with spices and oils. It's a personal preference. BTW, I have nothing against stinky doufu, finding that it's really not as stinky as claimed. Depending on how it is cooked, the smell can be quite pleasant. My guess is that the term "stinky" adds to the mystique and the machismo of the dish.

As for the tea ceremony, it's a matter of personal taste. If I had to choose between visiting the Lu Xun sites or a tea ceremony, I'd personally choose the tea ceremony.

Methinks Peter overemphasizes the negative aspects. If one visits France, there are local wines everywhere and every local restauranteur/merchant/person is an "expert" who will tout some wine and claim that it is the "best" in the world. We, the visitors, test the wine, not for a moment believing that this is the best but feeling either bemused or bathed in some sort of specialness because we are allowed to taste the "best" wine in the world.

If you approach tea tasting in China with the same attitude that you would take with wine tasting in France, I do believe you will enjoy the experience a great deal more. Every local person will have some exaggeration or other, these statements should not distract from your overall experience.

I'm going to go out on a limb here - but I do believe that tea is drunk by more people in the world than even Coca-cola. The British have taken to tea drinking like - um - sailors take to water. {Wish there were a tongue in cheek emoticon!]

We don't doubt the claims that Indian Darjeeling tea has something special - whether it's because it's the rain, the soil, the wind, the particular orientation of a particular slope - I once spent an entire train ride in India with a British ex-pat who had chosen to stay in India and to harvest tea. His "exaggerations" about Darjeeling tea would put to shame any local Chinese tea merchant with his tea ceremony.

If you go to the tea ceremony at the Hangzhou Tea Museum, you will be in for a once-in-a-lifetime experience. In other words, you may not have to attend another tea ceremony again - ever. Just kidding. I think you will find it interesting and enjoyable.

As with any museum, east or west, there will be a "museum shop" at the end. Just remember, you are not obligated to buy - anything. I happen to like T-shirts. If you find a tea T-shirt, would you please pick it up for me? I'll fully reimburse you, of course.

BTW, I live in California and wine-tasting is a BIG deal here. What is wine tasting but a way to help grape growers sell their fermented product? We're into wine tasting in a big way and we love helping the sales along.

Enjoy your trip! Don't get too stressed out by tea merchants or stinky doufu!