NeoPatrick

I arrive in Bangkok from Hong Kong on the evening of Monday, Aug. 30. I must be back in Bangkok to meet my OAT tour to VietNam on Sunday, Sept. 19th. So that gives me a day short of 3 weeks -- 20 nights to be specific. Ah what to do. The more I read and study, the more I get confused. Can someone get me started with a proposed 20 night itinerary based on these objectives?

I know I want to fly to Siem Reap for three nights at some point in there. And I'm not really interested in beaches at all. Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Golden Triangle, and now after a lot of reading and looking --Luang Prabang seems to be calling me.
I suspect I could easily entertain myself in Bangkok for a week, and I'm focusing on staying at the Center Point Silom while there.

So help me! How do I divide this up? I'm thinking a Bangkok Airways flyer pass is good. Am I smart first spending a week in Bangkok and then using it to fly to Chiang Mai, (spending time in the Chiang Rai and Golden Triangle then too, and then Chiang Mai to Luang Prabang and then on to Siem Reap and then back to Bangkok to meet my tour? Where should I go in Northern Thailand and how do I divide my time? I enjoy wandering towns and looking at architecture, doing "soft adventure" hiking and scenic trips by boat or land, and just enjoying the ambiance. I like wandering markets more than actual shopping -- I rarely bring anything at all home from a trip. I can easily get "templed" out, but love gardens, architecture, and palaces -- which is one of the things calling me to Luang Prabang.

And I'll be traveling alone. So some ground transportation or hiring guides and drivers gets pretty expensive for a solo traveler. Although normally I prefer rubbing elbows with locals on local transportation so long as I can figure it out.

I'm also looking for nice, smallish or characteristic places to stay (I've seen many good suggestions here already). I like to keep the cost well below $100 a night, but I'm usually much bigger on being "in the center of things" than being in a quieter out of town location. I don't need luxury and don't do spas, but I like things nice and certainly a good bed and nice private bathroom with shower.

For what it's worth, after my OAT trip, I also come back to Bangkok for another night and then a full day before flying to London just after midnight (the second night). Both stays (the single nights before and after the trip to VietNam) will be at the Tamara Hotel in Bangkok.

Oh, and none of this "save that for another time". I am at least 99% sure that this WILL be my one and only trip to Thailand, so I do want to make the most of it.

Thanks in advance. Have at it!

rhkkmk

ok understood....good choice for CP silom... make sure to spend some time on the river and you can do that easily from the piers next to CP... take advantage of all the free hotel boats too...for instance take the penn boat to its hotel and on the hour take another boat to river city...

chiang mai is good for wandering if you stay in the town center... many like two particular smaller hotels there both of which escape me now but others will chime in...

most of us have used the anantara hotel in the golden triangle but it is way over $100, but there are others in the area....the actual town is chiang saen...

a must is the queen mother's former home: doi tung...

would you consider driving up north....you would save lots of $$....fly to CM and rent a car when you are leaving there and drive north... tons of flexibility and easy roads to drive on...

so to the schedule after all of this rambling:

i would stay at bkk only nite one and stay at the airport....from there i would fly out the next day to siem reap on bkk air....stay there in ponhearry's guesthouse and use them as guides....lori will be there to run interference for you.... 4 full days is best...you will not get templed out there i don't think....

i would then fly back to bkk and fly directly to LP laos for a few days to relax, like maybe 3, also using the discovery pass.....you have now used up about 9 days... then i would return to bkk again and spend a week and then go north for the remaining days....

i like the north, but find it far less interesting than all the other places you have mentioned, especially chiang mai.. for this reason i could cut it short...

you need a driver/guide in SR for sure.... it makes sense of the whole place and it will be hot, hot, hot....florida will seem like an ice berg in comparison...

NeoPatrick

Wow. A car? I honestly never thought of that, but perhaps not opposed. Except for one little caveat - I don't do stick shift. Is that an issue? Roads are easy and good? They drive on the right or left? My partner has always done all the foreign driving so I'm not sure how I'd do. I honestly wouldn't mind a road trip -- you're saying Chiang Mai to Chiang Mai in some sort of "loop" I take it?

Four full days in Siem Reap? I'm not sure. Do I really want to spend one fifth of my entire Thailand/Laos/Cambodia trip at Angkor Wat? How about flying there in the morning and having that day, plus two more full days and three nights total? -- I hadn't thought of staying at the airport on arrival in Bangkok (5:30 PM arrival, so not very late) and flying on to Siem Reap the next day, but maybe that is a good idea.

Did I see that you can do direct flights from Siem Reap to Luang Prabang (in Fodors guide, I think)? Maybe on Laos air? Is that smart instead of back through Bangkok and out again?

Kathie

So... you'll have three weeks on the ground and really, you want time in Siem Reap, Luang Prabang and Thailand.

A few thoughts. It only makes sense to stay out by the airport if you are coming in late and leaving early. There is nothing out there, and the hotels there aer overpriced. It'll cost you about US$10 each way if you take a taxi into/back out of the city, but if you don't have a lot of luggage, you could take the skytrain. If at all possible, I'd spend the night in the city unless you just want to eat and sleep that night.

Conventional wisdom is that it takes a full three days just to see the so-called major temples at Angkor. There are dozens and dozens of accessible temples. You might want to pick up Dawn Rooney's book, Angkor: A guide to Cambodia's Wonderous temples to help you decide how much time to spend. Remember that you'll start at sunrise, go until close to noon, then go back out in the later afternoon, 3 or so and tour until sunset. you are also welcome to take a look at our Angkor photos: www.marlandc.com

You can fly (at least some days of the week) from Siem Reap to Luang Prabang. I believe it's covered by the Discovery Pass, but check to make sure. Then have your time in LP, relax and soak up the atmosphere.

Fly back to BKK, either spend some time in the city or go north. I'm not fond of Chiang Mai, but many people are. You can spend a bit of time there, and if you'd like rent a car for a couple of days as per Bob's suggestion. Or, you can take a bus to Chiang Rai or Chaing Sean (very close to the Golden Triangle) or to another small town like Pai or Mae Hong Son. Basically, you'll have to weigh how important a road trip through rural Thailand is to you vs. time in Bangkok to decide how to split your time. Remember you'll be seeing small town/rural in Laos, much less develeoped than Northern Thailand. Indeed, depending on your interests, you could opt to spend your three weeks in just three locations: SR, LP and BKK and skip Nortehrn Thailand

I agree that you can easily fill a week in Bangkok.

NeoPatrick

Oddly, I checked with American (One World) and it seems I could fly from Hong Kong to Bangkok from 8:55 to 10:35 AM on that same day, so I need to check to see if perhaps just make my connection to Seim Reap then -- avoiding that odd night. I'm not sure why I originally scheduled that flight from Hong Kong to Bangkok for afternoon, which kind of kills the day anyway, except that I was assuming I'd stay in Bangkok a while before doing the other side trips.

Or is there a reason I might not want to make my connection on arrival in Bangkok to go north first, then fly Chiang Mai to Luang Prabang and from there to Siem Reap before returning to Bangkok for my one week stay?

Kathie, I've followed many debates and disagreements about the merits of Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai, but I think I've seen enough to tell me I DO want to experience them myself.

And regarding Angkor Wat, I've read quite a bit, and frankly I always have to put the books down after 30 minutes or so because they all start sounding alike -- so I'm still not convinced that I could stand more than three days of temple "hopping" there. Especially after a month of China temple hopping and a few days of Kyoto temple hopping all on this same trip. I mean I do want to go and I do want to experience them -- but frankly a little goes a long way with me.

I did find that Thailand drives on the left -- I was thinking so -- but more importantly I'm not sure how easy (or cheap) it is to guarantee an automatic. I also somehow doubt that a car would be the "cheaper" way to go, as I am traveling solo. You can do a lot of local travel for $30 to $40 a day plus gas plus parking, etc. can't you?

NeoPatrick

oops. I didn't complete that thought about connecting in Bangkok.
What I found was that if I arrive BKK at 10:35 AM, there is a flight on Bangkok Airways at 12:10 to Chiang Mai. Is that cutting it too close? On the other hand, the next flight after my arrival to Siem Reap would not be till 3 PM. I think rather than a 4 and a half layover at BKK, I might just as soon fly in and spend a night in Bangkok then fly out the next morning. So I guess the question was -- would 10:35 (flying in business on Cathay Pacific) allow me to catch the Chiang Mai flight an hour and 35 minutes later? I'm assuming I'd have to clear customs, immigration, and claim luggage, so I'm guessing it wouldn't work.

Or -- should I really think about arriving in Bangkok and staying THERE for my week, then doing the other things before returning for a night or two to meet my OAT tour?

rhkkmk

i would be far more comfortable with the 3 or 4PM flight...you have to retrieve your luggage, check in to bkk air and walk a long distance to the gates....play it safely..

i hear you about SR...i overload easily, but it is just so magnificent...plus there is the lake which you might like to take in for a day...

it would be preferable to fly from SR to LP if that is available...

just remember that for the discovery pass you must use 3 legs or 3 individual flights to qualify and you can only buy that from overseas....

it is budget or avis who you would rent a car from so check their automatics...

i'm thinking that you might prefer to stay at the two other places that kathie mentions rather than in the GT itself...

also you need to factor in rain for that time of year....september is the worst, especially in bkk...

rhkkmk

another thought.....have you considered skipping angkor wat??

Kathie

Re: the flight You should be able to check your luggage through to your final destination, as Bangkok Air is a full -service airline. In the past, if you did that, you didn't clear immigration until you got to CM, but I understand some of those procedures have changed. It sounds like it may be enough time, bit it would be cutting it close.

My rules for a great vacation:
1. know thyself
2. know thy destination

We can help with the second, but you are the expert on the first. So it sounds like you have a pretty good idea that you want a bit less time than recommended in SR, and a bit more time in CM - great!

Regarding renting a car. I think you are right it would not be a less expensive way to go. And I wouldn't even want to think about driving - or finding parking in CM. You can hire a car and driver for less than $30-$40 a day.

rhkkmk

but you would have to pay the driver for over night stays would you not?

i found drivers to be almost non-existent up north of CM and the hotel cars are outrageous

NeoPatrick

To be honest I'm really not comfortable hiring a car and driver. I'd feel I'm outnumbered two to one. It isn't just a money thing, I'd feel like it is no longer MY trip. I never thought about hiring a car and driver north -- is that what you HAVE to do to see anything? Do you really just lose too much time taking a bus or taxi or whatever to wherever you go? And can't you go from town to town by bus if not train?

rhkkmk

train...are you kidding....can you go by train from ft myers to cocoa beach? or venice to pensacola??

you can take a bus up north but not really from small town to small town, like chiang saen.... at least i never saw one...i hardly saw cars...

we love having a driver....they are personable and know all the nooks and crannies and show you things you would never find on your own... and i am one who likes to drive myself...

in thailand and other asian countries it is just so reasonable and an easy way to get around, without any frustration...

btw, if you have any interest in tong for a day in bkk you should ask now...

NeoPatrick

sorry that came out wrong. I know there are no trains there. What I meant was more like "can you go by bus since there are no trains".

To be honest, I'm the kind who is far less comfortable in a taxi in New York than I am in the subway. I just somehow feel awkward hiring a personal driver. Add a private guide to the personal driver and I feel truly obnoxious. OK, I guess I should get over that -- but it's just the way I am.

rhkkmk

GET OVER IT... you just need them sometimes... for instance in SR they are essential i feel....the a/c car serves a real need for a quick fix between sites...

rhkkmk

i should add its not like europe in any way.....asia is way different... some of these comforts are necessities....

lcuy

In Asia, having a driver is a common way to get around. You don't need a driver and a guide. Just get a driver who speaks decent English. If you get somewhere you would like a guide, you can hire them on the spot.

In Siem Reap, you will definitely want a driver. They will drop you right at the entrance of the temples, and a good one will know where to go to beat the crowds. You can hire a romo (tuk tuk) by the day, but a car is a lot more comfortable with AC, and on subsequent days the driver will remember where you've been. Car + driver+ guide is only about $30 a day. As Kathie mentioned, Cambodians eat their big meal at lunch. A daily rate should include two sessions with a long lunch (or nap) in the middle. You won't need a driver to get around town. Tuk tuks are fine for short distances and the main part of Siem Reap is very compact.

Kathie

In Northern Thailand you can certainly take buses.

My thought about the car and driver in N. Thailand wasn't that you'd hire someone for days and pay for their overnight stays, but that you'd hire someone in one city to take you to another; after some time in the next town hire someone else for the next hop. In no way would you need (or want) a guide going with you through N Thailand. Or, you can mix it up. If there is a convenient bus, take that; if not hire a driver for the next leg of the trip.

rhkkmk

but kathie are there buses that go from say chiang saen to other small towns??

irecommend

I really loved Chiang Mai and we stayed there for 6 days. The Sunday Night Walking Market was really great, the factories were very interesting and a trip to the hilltribe villages is good too. One of the highlights as well was cooking classes with Yui at A Lot of Thai. She is the essence of Thailand, the best!
We stayed at 3 Sis in the newer rooms and it was lovely. the service was amazing and they will arrange anything for you that you want to do. Check them out on TripAdvisor.
One thing about traveling in SE Asia, Neo, is that everything is easily arranged as far as getting a driver or a guide. It can be done best when you get there, through your hotel as long as its a decent one.
In Siem Reap we stayed at The Kool Hotel and again, the service was amazing and they have tuk tuks or taxis to take you to the Temples.
All the buses we took were great and cheap. We flew to Chiang Mai but took a bus to Chiang Rai.
We did some train in Vietnam which was fine, mostly locals were on it but they were very nice to us and even had us try their local foods.

One thing I will say is be prepared that when using any transportation they do tend to "herd" on or off. Dont be offended. We usually just waited for the locals to clear before getting on or off a plane, bus or train!

We have done all our arrangements after we arrived using the internet for bookings and the hotels we stayed are able to advise on things we have needed. Seriously I think it is the easiest place to travel in. We are in week 8 with 2 more weeks to go.

Kathie

Bob, yes there are.