A number of airlines are banned from flying into Europe because they are considered unsafe, which now includes Garuda (Indonesia) :


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6248490.stm

Interesting read, but I find it odd that the article lumps all Indonesian airlines together. Of the three accidents they mention, one involved a Garuda flight (national airline) and two were Adam Air (budget airline), but they fail to mention this.

I'm an American living in Indonesia - I only fly Garuda as it's the best option we have, but I admit, I've been a bit leery since the crash this year. Garuda is also the only Indonesian airline our company deems safe, although employees are free to use whatever airline they want for personal travel. Were it not for Garuda, I'd have to swim to get in and out of this country.

As an aside, I find it disconcerting that Garuda flights into Singapore are required to go through security screening upon arrival and seem to be routed to the farthest most part of the airport. This is a fairly recent trend and I assume it's because Singapore doesn't trust Indonesia's security procedures, which I can completely understand - sometimes the x-ray machine doesn't even work.

I recall one Garuda flight where I checked for the life vest under my seat and there wasn't one! Knowing this country, someone probably stole it. I informed the flight staff upon deplaning, but I seriously doubt they gave it a second thought.

I try not to think of this when I board a Garuda flight, as there just isn't a better option.

MeIng8. I have tried Garuda a few times and have found them better than I thought they would be.

Many year ago I was on a Garuda flight that almost went off the end of the runway. The nose of the plane was literally over a rice paddy....quite scary. And then when we finally came to a proper stop, there was a red carpet and a military band welcoming some VIP who was on board, LOL.

Garuda has been on the verge of losing their ability to land at international airports for many years. Their maintenence and safety procedures are poor. The crash is only the tip of the iceberg.

Melng, can't you take another airline in and out of the country? I know I've flown other airlines into Indonesia: Singapore, Silk, Thai... I know that for intra-Indonesia flights your best bet of the poor selection is Garuda.

I visit Indonesia 3 or 4 times a year, and thanks to a very active business partner, I end up on 3 or 4 domestic flights every trip. I've flown most of the airlines, including Adam Air, and I'm still here. I sometimes think it's more a matter of when your number's up...

Kathie -

I live on a very remote company camp on the island of Sumatra. Our closest international airport is in Pekanbaru. The flight from Pekanbaru to Singapore is the only international flight and Garuda is the only carrier. The flight used to operate four days a week, but is currently flying daily - for how long, nobody knows.

I'm told that Silk Air once flew that route, but the Indonesian authorities told them they'd have to pay for a new runway if they wanted to continue flights to Pekanbaru. Silk Air chose to discontinue the route, and Garuda has been the only option for the three years I've lived here. And yes, the runway is still a mess.

It's possible to fly from Pekanbaru to Batam via Lion Air, or other Indonesian budget airlines, then take a ferry to Singapore, but there's no way in hell I'm going to fly a budget Indonesian airline.

The only other option I'm aware of is taking the 90 minute drive to Dumai, boarding a ferry to Port Dickson (Malaysia), then hiring a driver on the Malaysia side to drive to Kuala Lumpur (90 minute drive). I did this once, and it took 11 hours to go about 150 miles. It's not a feasible alternative, especially given the high rate of ferry accidents and piracy along the Malacca Strait.

So, I take a deep breath, cross my fingers and hope for the best.

By the way - I was in Australia at the time of the Garuda crash in Yogijarkarta. The Australian news interviewed several Australian pilots who said Garuda's most experienced pilots fly the international routes, so I try to take a little comfort in that.

Melng, no question you are located where you don't have many choices. I thought you might be closer to Jakarta or even Solo. Thanks for the info.

I recently flew Garuda from Denpasar to Jogja. Luckily, I sat in the exit row (thank god) and made sure I was VERY familiar with how to get out of that plane, if necessary.

Obviously, the flight turned out to be fine...

JohnH -

Interesting... I've noticed that on every flight I've taken on Garuda (30+)I've been seated in or very near the exit row (wihout asking). Seems on every flight, a westerner is seated in those rows. Not sure if it's done as a courtesy, or if the airline feels more comfortable with a bule next to the emergency exit.

It's mostly a courtesy. They can tell by looking that my big fat a** isn't going to fit very well in their regular seats. I usually get an exit row too, without asking, if I show up early enough.

LOL Michael - I've found the seats on Garuda to be plenty big and the seats in the exit row are the same size, there's just more leg room.

I think actions like this one on the part of the EU are good because they can lead to real change, but also a bit disgenuous because no Indonesian airline actually flies in Europe. I also strongly object to both the lumping together of ALL Indonesian airlines and the singling out of Indonesia in a region that is rife with air safety issues.

Garuda truly is the best of the worst. That terrible incident in Yogya was a great setback for them as it was so avoidable. In the 12 years that I've lived in Indonesia Garuda has improved dramatically. They've contracted with Lufthansa for help with safety and service and we've seen a huge difference.

The other Indonesian airlines? I don't know. .. I avoid them if possible. The fact is that Indonesia is a huge archipeligo and local people are cashed strapped. The budget airlines that connect a the farflung destinations serve a good purpose. They definitely need to be better regulated, but in a country with so many social and governmental challenges, it's a case of "get in line."

The issue of airport safety is separate but related. This one really burns me up. The systems are there but they ARE NOT being followed or monitored as closely as they could be or should be. No amount of rescreening or warning seems to shame the local authorities into compliance. I know the US and Australian governments have been very pro-active in helping the Indonesians get up to international standards, but there's still a long way to go.

As far as other countries that are worse -- China is to me an absolute horror story in airline safety and Viet Nam and Cambodia are close seconds. It's a real dilemma for travelers. Risk or stay home? You know my answer to that, but it still doesn't mean it's right.

So, in conclusion, I applaud the EU for making a statement but think they could go farther in being less general and more helpful.

Hi marmot -

Oddly enough, the day the EU announced that Indonesian airlines were considered unsafe, the Asia news on Star World announced that Garuda had just passed some major safety tests and they made it sound as if all was well....

Do you live in Jakarta?

Incidentally, before moving to Indonesia three years ago, I posted a thread on this forum asking about life in Indonesia. I think it was you that told me 'Indonesia is paradise for some and a prison for others' (does this sound familiar?). Sadly, our experience here has be very un-paradise-like, and we often feel like captives!

Melnq8, I don't remember the exchange but it certainly corresponds to what I've observed. I'm sure my life in Jakarta where there's a very lively expat community from all over the world and a continually more sophistocated local culture is quite different from what you've experienced in Sumatra. As I often say about Jakarta it's a great place to live but I wouldn't want to visit.

I absolutely HATE Garuda, but it's a choice of fly them or stay home. Some choice!

Culture? What culture?

Planning my first ever visit to Jakarta later this month - should be interesting.

Jakarta has some beautiful hotels, a handful of good restaurants and in certain categories -- like handicrafts and discount US brand clothing -- some excellent shopping. Otherwise it's not what I would consider a tourist destination.

Gotcha. Not going as a tourist, but as a shopper. Staying in the Senayan Mulia and looking forward to a genuine restaurant or two and just getting away from here for a few days.

Marmot - really? no Indonesian airline flies to Europe. Is that true?

No cheapies then from Australia.

And to those of you have flown Garuda and Aeroflot - which is worst?

Actually, the worst airline I've ever flown was Olympic!