filmwill

So now that we have our tickets, let the madness begin!

I've got so many ideas of what I'd like to do on this trip to SEA, that my head is spinning.

Enter: Fodorites.

So we've basically got 14 days or so to spend. I know we want to spend at least 2 days touring with Tong (whether they're together or split at the front and tail ends of the trip, matters not).

I also know we want to go to the beach again--albeit a far more remote/intimate experience than Phi Phi (which we loved)--but still that crystal blue water/powder sugar beach is essential. Already thinking about Ko Hai/Ko Ngai for 2 nights and then 2 nights in Krabi (which seems quite close and on the way back to BKK.)

The question then becomes the mid-part of our trip.

It's either going to be Phnom Penh (if you guys saw my previous post re: volunteering there) or...and this is where I throw in the wild card...Burma.

I keep going back and forth about the ethical issues, but, at the end of the day, we won't be back to SEA for many years after this trip and I really want to see something different this time. I have the feeling that going to Bagan and Inle Lake would really be unforgettable.

Is that too much cramming into one trip? If you know us well, we don't like to sit in one place too long...but I also don't want to feel rushed either.

I love the idea of Phnom Penh, but it still is a city--and I really don't want to do all cities again. My big problem last year was just that: mostly cities (BKK, LP, Hanoi and Hong Kong.) That's just not for me. My ideal is at least 3 different vibes. Our first trip worked so well for this reason as we took the city/jungle/beach approach.

Lots of info here, I know. Looking forward to your guys' suggestions.

It's all a blank canvas right now...I love this part the most!!

Kathie

So many destinations, so little time.

I don't know that I can be of much assistance to you on the Burma question. I have planned and cancelled trips to Burma three or four times in the last 15 years. And once again, I'm debating the question for this year.

It sounds to me like you have enough time in the middle of your trip for one or two destinations. One option, since you sound like you want countryside, is to go into more rural parts of Northern Thailand: Pai, Mae Hong Son, etc. You could incorporate a trek into a remote village and even include an overnight or two.

What about Malaysia? There are rural/jungle parts of peninsular Malaysia. It's a whole different culture, so for that reason you might not want to do it.

There are, of course, more rural parts of Laos and VN you could consider. Think about what you want to experience in that "middle" time as that will give us more ideas about what to suggest.

Femi

You could look into a cruise on the Irrawaddy in Burma. I loved the Road To Mandalay, and I know the Pandaw cruises have also had good reviews.
Can't remember your dates now, but Inle Lake can get very cold in the winter.

wintersp

To me - not a contest - BURMA or BURMA or BURMA. And - they have wonderful, underdeveloped beaches.

If you stay in the 5 stars over there you put more money in the govt's hand - they are joint ventures - (but also cheap and more like 4 stars) but there is plenty of medium or local places in the tourist spots. You will be in tourist spots; but very few, maybe no, American tourists. Look at Rubyland Tours website. I used them and couldn't believe the personal service, but even if you don't use them, it is a good place to look at itineraries (sp?).

Burma is the most awesome travel I've ever experienced. It still blows me away to remember my experiences there. A step back in time; the most wonderful, sweet, kind people I've met anywhere.

I think I need to stop - I'm not usually so loquacious - but that's what memories of Burma do to me!!

Polly

P.S. - I guess you got the idea I vote for Burma??? Just wanted to be sure.(lol)

filmwill

Kathie, originally that was actually the plan--Pai was going to be one of our stops. Although I ended up fearing it would be a little too mellow. I have friends who went this year and found it obviously very beautiful, but also very boring after awhile. Baan Rai Lanna's setting seems somewhat similar, which is initially what made Pai appealing...and I did love BRL, but maybe that's cuz we were only there for 2 nights and moved on to Chiang Mai fairly quickly.

Femi, we'll be there early- to mid-December. Is Inle cold then? I can't imagine anything in that region of the world being cold at that time of year.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Polly. What were your favorite parts?

Anyone have an idea of transit times and fares between BKK and Bagan and Inle Lake? What about recommendations for bear minimum amount of days spent in both Bagan and Inle? I don't think we're particularly interested in Yangon as anything other than a stopover. Can we do this on our own? Or is a tour guide/driver essential? If so, is that something we need to set up through a travel agency (two words which always give me the heebie jeebies)?

I know: more questions. Thanks for your patience and advice so far, all..

Hanuman

I second Myanmar.

We were there in late Dec to early Jan and it was cold around Inle, especially at night(5 - 6 Celsius). Daytime was pleasant, spring like.

To help answer some of your question regarding the transit time.

Bangkok to Yangon the flying time is 1 hour.
Yangon to Inle = 45 minutes.
Inle to Mandalay = 20 minutes.
Mandalay to Bagan = 20 minutes.

I think all the domestic airlines fly in clockwise directing(Yangon to Inle to Mandalay to Bagan etc) during the winter months. The best domestic airline in Myanmar, IMO, is Air Bagan and I would try to reserve flights on their jets vs the props.

Inle, 2 nights is about right for us and for Bagan 2 - 3 nights. Don't forget to book the "Balloon over Bagan"! We didn't have a guide in Myanmar and this was how we did it. For Inle your hotel will arrange a long tail boat to tour and cruise around the various sights(markets, temples etc) around the lake. All you need is good guide book(Lonely Planet). For Bagan your hotel can arrange a horse carriage and the driver will take you around town to visit all the beautiful temples. We visited Mandalay but did not like it.


Hotels that we stayed in and like in Myanmar:
Inle Lake = Inle Princess Resort
http://www.inleprincessresort.com/
Bagan = Aureum Palace
http://www.aureumpalacehotel.com/
Yangon = The Strand
http://www.ghmhotels.com/hotels/hote...p;section=home

Pictures from Myanmar:
http://khun-pook.smugmug.com/gallery/4034196

Hanuman

Corrections - the airlines fly in the anti clockwise direction during the winter months!

Femi

All this talk of Burma excites me, and it's not even my itinerary!

Ditto everything Polly said.

Craig

Bill - Undoubtedly you have already read my Myanmar trip report - if not, here's a link:

http://tinyurl.com/3bkten

It was an almost perfect trip but I'd cut out the excursion to Mt. Popa and just relax at my hotel that day instead. I don't think you'll be able to avoid spending time in Yangon (a day at each end of your trip). When planning time spent at each place keep in mind that the flights are usually very early in the morning, allowing you to do a full day of touring at your destination. That being said, you need 2 full days in Bagan and at least 3 or 4 at Inle Lake. Some on this forum have enjoyed Mandalay also but we did not go there.

I think you will need a driver wherever you go, including Yangon. It would be helpful to have a guide as well since the drivers don't speak much English. We arranged everything including airfare through Santa Maria - you will save big bucks going through a local agency versus trying to book direct or through one of the internet hotel booking sites.

thursdaysd

I went back and forth on the ethical issue with traveling to Myanmar too, and my first time in SEA I skipped it. But a friend "adopted" her driver, and I used him as a driver/guide, staying in small guest houses (www.myinttours.com). I found the whole place magical - SEA as I imagine it was twenty years ago. I don't think you could make a mistake regardless of where you go, but Bagan and Inle Lake and the Shwedagon pagoda have to be the top sites.

rhkkmk

forget the "ethical" issues....go to burma and enjoy the hell out of it...

yangon is not to be overlooked...its like 1890 in many ways....2-3 days is just right....
i have not been up-country, but craig's descriptions seem wonderful...

YOU WILL NEED A DRIVER FOR THE WHOLE TIME....one in yangon and different ones up north....use an agency to help you (not the dreaded TA)...

think the penn for bkk....

wintersp

'and use an agency to help you (not the dreaded TA)' - And who would 'the agency' be if not the Travel Agency, Bob? I think you're being facetious and I'm so literal!

YOU WILL NEED A DRIVER FOR THE WHOLE TIME is a matter of opinion and travel style. I find a driver all the time to be isolating and to be regimented.Traveling alone may be part of that discomfort. Actually, I strolled into Rubyland TA on Friday 3:30 pm and started asking questions. Well, like 1950, Burma works 8-5, M-F. But they scrambled and stayed and got me plane reservations and hotels. I was asked if I wanted guides and drivers and I did chose a guide and driver for Mandalay and guide for Inle (for one day only in each place)because I wanted free time also. In Bagan, I simply walked out in front of the hotel and hired a horse cart (he spoke good English). It worked out very well.
I chose airport pu and return in all three places because the airports at Inle and Mandalay are VERY inconvenient (35 t0 45 minutes from town. HOWEVER, I met a pair, (she was a Calif attorney) who picked up transportation on the spot and arranged hotels over the internet (and changed plans a lot along the way!). They also had more time than I did.

I liked my experiences in Mandalay because of my guide (I have his card if email is functioning there again). I asked to see the artisans and crafts and he obliged. I don't believe I would have found them on my own. I feel no need to return to Bagan, but back to Inle in a hearbeat. And I would go back to Mandalay (after all, I missed the Moustache Brothers).

When I go back, I will go to Mandalay, Inle, and the beach. (and if I can find a way to get further off the track, I'll try it)
Mandalay, where I had a guide, I asked to see the artisans and crafts (can you imagine people - humans - pounding gold into gold leaf?? I will never forget that!!)and of course the temples are always there. I would like to spend more time in Yangon - a couple of days. But you'll always go through Yangon to get anywhere in Burma.

I often think about the ethical issues but I don't believe that tourism does much to support the govt. I think Craig has mentioned their big ticket items (illegal drugs, gas, teak, gems, etc). The people are all so happy to see you (from the houses in Inle they would all wave as you passed in the boats). I wonder how I would feel if foreigners refused to come to this country because they didn't like the government? I believe I would want to yell, I'm NOT the government and I want to meet you!

Keep us posted on your plans. Wherever you go, you seem to always have a great time.

rhkkmk

when you are in a small town, of course you can walk around, but if you venture outside you need transportation, thus a driver...in yangon, you could not do much without a driver....its a huge place...

filmwill

Thank you again, guys, for all the advice so far.

I guess my concern now comes about the timing of this all.

Maybe you guys can help me fit this into our schedule.

I really still want to go to the beach in Thailand (interested in the beach in Burma, but it seems a far cry from Thai beaches)...so how do I make that work, given the time constraints? I'm fine with limiting our time in Ko Hai to 3 nights...so that might help.

Here's a stab at a mock itinerary for this trip...any thoughts? (This is a mess and I know it doesn't account for flight schedule--so many you can help?):

Day 1 Depart LAX
Day 3 Arrive Bangkok (early AM)
Day 4 Bangkok (Tour w/Tong)
Day 5 Fly to Yangon/Bagan
Day 6 Yangon
Day 7 Bagan
Day 8 Bagan
Day 9 Fly to Inle Lake
Day 10 Inle Lake
Day 11 Fly to Yangon/Bangkok
Day 12 Fly to Krabi
Day 13 Ko Hai
Day 14 Ko Hai
Day 15 Ko Hai/Fly to Bangkok
Day 16 Bangkok
Day 17 Bangkok / Depart for LAX

Hanuman

Twenty or Thirty years ago people did not want to visit a communist country because they were the enemies to most. I visited China, Vietnam and the USSR and have, in the past few years, revisited those countries again. For me the visit in those old days were more real and enjoyable but a lot less luxurious with lousy food and really scary airlines!

I really believe that the more foreigners that visit Myanmar the quicker the country will change for the better.

Hanuman

Filmwill,

Check out the winter schedule for Air Bagan and you can plan your trip better.

http://www.airbagan.com/winter-fligh...ule-yangon.htm

RGN = Rangon
NYU = Nyaung Yu(Bagan)
HEH = He Ho(Inle lake)

Craig

I think you need to cut something out. You have only allowed 1 full day at Inle Lake, for example. Although the flight from Bagan is an early one, the drive from Heho Airport takes a couple of hours. Depending on where you stay, you may have to take a 1/2 hour boat ride to your hotel after that. If you decide to visit the caves at Pindaya, you won't arrive at your hotel until late afternoon.

Also, you will not be able to fly from Heho to Yangon and continue on to Bangkok the same day. Note that the Heho-Yangon flight leaves mid-morning and allows enough time to drive from your hotel on the lake. You may however be able to fly from Yangon to Bangkok the next morning and continue on to Krabi.

filmwill

Craig,

It seems like, from the little research I've done, that there's an 10 AM flight from Heho to Yangon that gets in at 11:15. Then, same day, there's a Thai Air flight at 7:45 PM to Bangkok. That should work, right?

There's also, it seems, a 1 PM flight from Yangon to BKK on Bangkok Air.

Seems like we could get to Bangkok no problem--no way we'd make it to Krabi same day, so we'd probably have to overnight it at the airport.

Thinking of just emailing a TA there to get some proposed flight schedules--did you guys find that you saved more money booking air tickets through a TA than with the airline directly?

rhkkmk

i have a good driver for you in yangon if you need him....he also will go elsewhere in burma upon request...

it is a busy schedule for sure....not sure how the whole northern thing works out....craig is a good one to listen to...

i would switch my day with tong to the end of the trip....you will be too tired on day 4 to enjoy it that much....imo..

bob

Craig

Those later in the day Thai and Bangkok Air flights must be new. You may be happier staying in Yangon than staying at the airport in Bangkok. The Savoy where we stayed is a wonderful hotel and not at all expensive.

I don't think you'll save on airfare by using a local TA but I would recommend using one anyway as flights and flight times change at the drop of a hat. Your TA will stay on top of it and be held accountable for getting you where and when you want to go.