michelle_in_nc

We have found out a few more details. The itenerary is more solid than first thought.

One problem is there has been a huge communication barrier from Thailand to here. The second problem is a lack of administration (the former teacher) on this side.

More Details:
The teacher will traveling from here (the US) to Bangkok with them. However, he will only be staying with the group for about a week and not the entire time. Most of the time, the group will be staying in Chachoengsao which is several hours outside of Bangkok in "army barracks". They will be helping with English classes in 6-7 different schools. The group will go to the 'country' or more rural area Nakornsatchasrima, where they will be helping with building, english classes, distributing red cross packets, etc. There will be Thai students that are bilingual that will be traveling with them.

Most of their meals will be in the "markets", however they will have lots of bottled water, (but this still really bothers me).

I can't seem to get any information on how the accomodations will be set up and "army barracks" doesn't give me any details. Roughing it for a service project is one thing, but will the guys and girls be seperate and a chaperone with each? With Thai culture, will this be a no brainer and an "of course" or is this a valid question?

If she were to get sick from the change in food, wouldn't there need to be an alternate plan for those who had to 'stay behind' and couldn't participate for the day? How does that usually work? How sick does someone have to be before most groups send you home?

One person said their teen's group had three chaperones. Is this standard?

Thanks!

KimJapan

With this age kids, I would expect 1 chaperone or staff in charge of kids per 5 - 8 kids. And at least 2 of them, even if there aren't 10 kids or more, as if one of them is sick/injured/unsure what to do, there would be another.

Staying in army barracks...don't know about that. Where's the army? If the barracks are no longer used, why not? Are they maintained?

Bottled water is the only drinkable water. Are they eating in markets on their own, or chaperoned? How will they order if they have no idea what the things on offer are and with no one to help them? Of course, pointing and smiling is easy and anyone can do it, but it would certainly be nice to have some sort of guidance, especially for a first timer, and especially for a a young teen who may want to know exactly what something is before deciding whether or not to eat it. It would also be a shame to live for the whole time on fried rice and noodles because they were the only thing identifiable.

Of course there "should" be a plan in place should any of the students or "staff" fall ill or be injured. When I worked with the student travel company, my summer role was to stay in town in Zermatt while the groups were skiing all day, just in case someone had to come back, just in case someone didn't go up, just in case there was a problem. There really should be some sort of plan and enough staff to allow at least one person to float caring for or taking to hospital anyone ill or injured...it doesn't happen often, but it is possible.

How sick do you have to be to get sent home? Most programs will not send you home for being sick, but will bring you to the hospital. During my two years working in student travel, we had 500 or so kids, 1 hospitalization and about 25 kids who sat out activities for one reason or another. No one was sent home, no need to do that as there was staff enough to cover it.

Even with your additional details, I still think it's a "no go." The additional details are not much to go on anyway...you still don't seem to know what a typical day will be like, what the number of chaperones is, how they might be qualified to take care of a group of teens, what the accommodation is like and what the sleeping arrangements are...I could go on an on...these are things that you have to be clear on and comfortable with before you even consider a program.

Communication barriers don't tend to improve, nor does administration, without serious effort and competent staff. There are good programs out there that have good communication and administration that I would feel much more comfortable with.

crosscheck

Hi Michelle,

I still think there are many more concerns about this trip besides the possibility of getting sick from the food (which is not as huge an issue in Thailand as in other places).

Number of chaperones on teen programs depends on the number of kids in the group. My son's group of 15 in Costa Rica had two full-time chaperones plus one who resided in the village where they lived. There were two others who traveled with the kids from the U.S. and also a support staff in San Jose.

Before I sent my son to CR last summer at age 15, I called parents whose kids had traveled with the company we were considering. I would suggest you do the same.

My son ended up having a fantastic experience and is returning to the same village this summer.

Your gut feeling is that this trip is not organized or safe enough for you to feel comfortable about your daughter being on the other side of the world. You would not have asked us for our opinion if you felt confident. I would go with your instinct and choose a program that is more well established. (Rustic Pathways offers at least a dozen wonderful service programs in rural Thailand.)

marmot

michelle, I live in Southeast Asia and my son who grew up here traveled with school groups from a fairly early age. Thailand has a well developed tourism business and getting around in major cities and tourist destinations is not difficult.

Having said that I would question this particular trip as the details are -- as you point out -- rather hazy. Is there by any chance a religious connection here? I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I would caution strongly against getting involved with any sort of religion based volunteer group in Southeast Asia. I mention it because the objectives of this group sound a little unclear.

There are so many bonafide volunteer, cultural and/or adventure travel organizations that take kids on structured trips to Asia. I'd look further into one of those.

I would worry less about the chaperone to kid ratio and more about the overall logistical planning. You said on your other thread that she's going to college next year. If she's mature enough for a U.S. college campus, then she's mature enough to travel with an loosely chaperoned group of kids. So the sleeping arrangements don't bother me so much as the apparent lack of organization and information.

If your daughter decides to go with this group:
Make sure that she has evacuation insurance. There are good hospitals in Bangkok, but in the countryside health care is less reliable. In the case of emergency (or even a routine problem) she would want to be airlifted to Singapore or Hong Kong.

Get her an international cellphone.

Talk to some of the other students' parents. They may have more information.

Check with the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok about the safety in the areas that she would be visiting.

Tangata

Hi Michelle,

I ran your original post past my wife, who is Thai. She was quite adamant that it wasn't a good idea unless you knew a lot more of the detail and some of the people (adults) involved.

We lived in Bangkok when our daughter was 15 and we certainly would not let her out on her own in Bangkok, even though she was fluent in Thai and English and had been getting around Hong kong on her own for years.

Personally I don't like the locations mentioned, Chachoengsao is about 60 km from Bangkok and Nakornsatchasrima a little over 200 km. If that is all that they are going to see of Thailand they won't see very much. I know this is primarily about "service" but I think that if you are travelling that far you need to have some time and opportunity to appreciate the country.

I would also query the bilingual Thai students. Unless they are Thais who attend one of the better International or private schools, they are unlikely to have an adequate command of English. Most Thai children are better with written rather than spoken English.

Hanuman

Where is "Nakornsatchasrima"? Do you mean Nakornrachasima or Korat? Some army barracks are quite comfortable in Thailand, especially if they are for officer cadets they will even have a/c.

What is the name of the Thai school or organisation that is co-organising this with your daughter's school? I'm asking because I can check them out with the local school board.

michelle_in_nc

Wow, you guys are great! Thank you everyone for the details. I will need them to debate my daughter. Although bright, she has alot more faith in the teacher and really wants to go.

Just to answer some questions:
The schools' names are:

Datdaruni
Anuban - Anubanpitulatiratcharangsarit
Ben II - Benjamaratcharangsarit II
Ben - again Benjamaratcharangsarit
St. Luis School - private
plus others that are abbreviated

The 5 bilingual Thai students actually are exchange students that spent time on my daughter's campus for a few weeks this past semester. She is aquainted with one of them and knows the others by name. They are at least conversationally fluent.

The administrator in Thailand is actually a principal in the Chachoengsao province and has traveled to the US 2-3 times in exchange type situations but this is her first time attempting to put one together herself with connections she has with her daughter who is part of the Red Cross. No religous connections - I think they are Buddhist because there is a polite invitation to visit the temple in the family's province.

They will have 2-3 days in Bangkok where they will be making presentations to and meeting different people in the Red Cross, seeing sites, temples, etc. They will have 1-2 days by the "sea" to do fun things there before going back to Bangkok, to come home.

Hope this answers everything.

lcuy

Michelle,

I think you have gotten the idea that everyone here thinks this trip is a bad idea.

There is too little time fo you to do adequate research, the sponsors are not well organized and there are "huge communication barriers".

If you cannot feel confident in their ability to plan and communicate the details of the trip, how can you possibly feel confident that they will be able to communicate effictively if something should (heaven forbid)go wrong during the trip?

It sounds like your daughter really wants to go and you are hesitant to disappoint her.

You know this is not a good situation. Do what you know is best for your daughter. She will learn to accept your decision, and you can find another option for later.

KimJapan

Just to add to what Lucy said....

If she goes and it is great, then you will all be happy. There is a chance it could be great, too.

BUT if she goes and it isn't great, or worse, if she's hurt or gets in some sort of trouble, or whatever...would you be comfortable with that outcome?

Every trip has the potential to go bad. Real life example...student group in Santorini rented scooters to get around. One of the students skidded on sand and fell, and died. This was a Browne-Ladd trip, which in its day was very well respected with quite high power families sending their kids. There was plenty of planning and support and adequate supervision and a well laid out day by day itinerary. The accident was just that, an accident. But it happened. In this case, as far as I know (I worked for this company after this event happened and after it had been bought out by another company), the parents were of course, devastated, but could take some comfort in knowing there was nothing else they could have done to be sure their child was on a good and safe trip. As a consequence to this event, of course, scooter rental was no longer allowed.

I don't mean to be an alarmist in telling you this story, but I do want you to seriously consider the possibility of something bad happening, and how you would feel about it afterwards having sent your daughter with reservations about the integrity of the trip.

We can't protect our kids from everything, but we can control to some extent the situations we put them in. I understand she wants to go. I understand you want her to go. But unless you are 100% sure about it (and if you were, would you really be asking a bunch of strangers on the internet?) I would say no, and together find an acceptable to both of you alternative. At the very least, wait until next year for this particular trip...maybe after having done it once the organizers will be more organized.

bmttokyo

I left SFO a month ago leaving my 15 year old with her aunt to finish her Freshman year of HS while I flew back with her 2 younger sibs.

I feel so foolish fretting about her safety during her 10 hr. unaccompanied flight from SFO to TKY with a transfer at INC S. Korea . We have travelled quite a bit as a familiy but this is her first time solo. Since she is over 14, she no longer quallifies as an unaccompanied minor. I had called Asiana Airlines & they very kindly offered a free service called Family Service where she could be escorted through Customs all the way through Tokyo side.

I think I am more concerned about her safety inside the plane. Will she be seated beside someone safe? I know we pre seated her in an aisle seat. She will be in coach which will not give her the luxury of the FAs coming to check on passengers as often. I am planning on sending a handwritten note to the Chief Purser to request that she be seated "well" & to check on her once in a while.

What a challenge it is for us parents as we raise our kids. More often than not, it is easier to make the more popular & less favorable decisions. This must be such a grave decision for you as mentioned by Kim that you would turn to internet strangers to help you process this though. My thoughts are with you Michelle as you work through this issue.

Hanuman

Michelle,

First of all I'm also a father and my daughter just turned 16 last month. Every time she goes on a field trip around Thailand I get nervous and try to get as much information as possible. Recently the school has begun having trips abroad so I understand your concern.

I've called and talked to the administrator of Datdaruni School (Ms Monta) and can confirm that this program exist and is official. The following is the information that I got from her:

1/. Her school send a few students to the UK annually under some scholarship and now they will have an exchange program with the UK school (probably the program that your daughter is interested in).
2/. There will be a group that will be arriving around the 8th June with about 15 exchange students.
3/. The Thai organization that will be looking after the students in Thailand, specifically while they will be at and around Datdaruni school, will be the Thai Red Cross and the Governor of Chachoensao province.
4/. The students will be housed in the official guest housing quarters of the Royal Thai Army(11th Army group) and they will separate the boys and the girls and will be supervised by teachers from the local school participating in this program. I believe it's full board as well.
5/. This program will include visits to other part of Thailand - Nakornrachasima or Korat as well. I haven't check the information for Korat.

It might be wise for you to call the school and talk to the administrator yourself and get the other relevant information before you make your judgment. I've only called one school and did not contact the rest from your list.

Hope this help.

FYI - Datdaruni telephone number is +6638814461 (direct line for the administrator Ms Monta +66814245332) and the school's website: http://datdaruni.siamschool.net/
Royal Thai Army 11th infantry command: General Garn Sanamo, tel: +6638981705 email: [email protected]

michelle_in_nc

Thank you Hanuman for the phone numbers. Is this school in the same time zone as Bangkok?

Again, I haven't gotten enough answers to say yes to this. I do appreciate all of your concerns and thoughts.

By coming to complete strangers I had hoped to convince my daughter that I am getting objective information and advice. Through you all, I have convinced my husband that there are serious problems with this and he thought the idea was fine at first. We sit down to tell her tomorrow our decision. We are actually waiting to hear back about the ticket information; not that it will really change our decision except maybe give us an opportunity for my husband to go with her; that might change our decision. I do want to make the calls to the school because I am also gathering information for another family.

For me, after reading all of your posts, the issue is that I cannot confirm who the chaperones are and I haven't met them. Even if I called the school and found out that there really were 5 chaperones for these 15-20 students, I don't know who they are. So at this point, sending her alone isn't an option.

michelle_in_nc

Sorry, Pushed the button before finishing.

Thank you all for your help. You have been invaluable!!!!! It' is almost 4AM and I have to give exams tomorrow. ...more unhappy teenagers...

Hanuman

Michelle,

Yes they are in the same time zone as Bangkok(only 1 time zone in Thailand). Give them a call and try calling the school in the UK that is organizing the trip too.

Best of luck,