Cancel trip to Japan?
Mar 26th, 2011, 07:12 PM
#141
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There are plenty of places where it would be fine to visit. Hokkaido. South and west of Tokyo. Kanazawa is fine; I'm here. Making a sweeping generalization to not visit Japan is too broad and does not take into consideration any of the things that need to be considered.
Mar 28th, 2011, 12:25 AM
#142
Interesting piece in the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/28/wo...8tokyo.html?hp - "In Deference to Crisis, a New Obsession Sweeps Japan: Self-Restraint"
Some quotes:
"There are also doubts about whether it is proper to partake in the seasonal pleasures that regulate much of Japanese life. "
"In fact, cherry blossom viewing parties and fireworks festivals have been canceled. Graduations and commencements have been put off. Stores and restaurants have reduced their hours or closed. Cosmetics and karaoke are out; bottled water and Geiger counters are in. "
Some quotes:
"There are also doubts about whether it is proper to partake in the seasonal pleasures that regulate much of Japanese life. "
"In fact, cherry blossom viewing parties and fireworks festivals have been canceled. Graduations and commencements have been put off. Stores and restaurants have reduced their hours or closed. Cosmetics and karaoke are out; bottled water and Geiger counters are in. "
Mar 28th, 2011, 01:03 AM
#143
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But none of that is applicable in Kanazawa. Which is why I keep saying that come or don't come depends on lots of variables.
If your plan is Tokyo then I'd cancel plans for right now and have a plan B for near future plans. If your plan is limited to Kansai and west and south, you could come and enjoy - with the understanding that you may encounter low spirits in some people if you engage in disaster conversation. Tourist stuff, though, in those areas, is ok. Hanami is happening.
If you are worried about radiation and the worry will spoil your trip then cancel. But know that radiation has not come near us (so far at least). Food and water - Japanese consumers are very skittish about food safety. Mistakes happen, but as a rule, you can be pretty sure what you eat falls within legal limits for not only radiation but chemicals, too. I wouldn't worry about that.
Here in Kanazawa, no one i know is obsessing except my one friend previously mentioned. I've yet to see a Geiger counter, though I probably wouldn't know one if you hit me over the head with it.
Overall, I think people need to be careful to not lump all of japan together - most areas are fine. It's kind of like not visiting Boston when Three Mile Island was a problem.
If your plan is Tokyo then I'd cancel plans for right now and have a plan B for near future plans. If your plan is limited to Kansai and west and south, you could come and enjoy - with the understanding that you may encounter low spirits in some people if you engage in disaster conversation. Tourist stuff, though, in those areas, is ok. Hanami is happening.
If you are worried about radiation and the worry will spoil your trip then cancel. But know that radiation has not come near us (so far at least). Food and water - Japanese consumers are very skittish about food safety. Mistakes happen, but as a rule, you can be pretty sure what you eat falls within legal limits for not only radiation but chemicals, too. I wouldn't worry about that.
Here in Kanazawa, no one i know is obsessing except my one friend previously mentioned. I've yet to see a Geiger counter, though I probably wouldn't know one if you hit me over the head with it.
Overall, I think people need to be careful to not lump all of japan together - most areas are fine. It's kind of like not visiting Boston when Three Mile Island was a problem.
Mar 28th, 2011, 02:44 AM
#144
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"It's kind of like not visiting Boston when Three Mile Island was a problem."
There were no immediate deaths (although I would guess many died subsequently as a result of radiation exposure)as a result of the mess at Three Mile Island. Also noticeably absent was damage from an earthquake followed by a Tsunami.
I think Thursdaysd NYTimes report pretty much sums it up:
"In Deference to Crisis, a New Obsession Sweeps Japan: Self-Restraint".
This isn't limited to Tokyo.
There were no immediate deaths (although I would guess many died subsequently as a result of radiation exposure)as a result of the mess at Three Mile Island. Also noticeably absent was damage from an earthquake followed by a Tsunami.
I think Thursdaysd NYTimes report pretty much sums it up:
"In Deference to Crisis, a New Obsession Sweeps Japan: Self-Restraint".
This isn't limited to Tokyo.
Mar 28th, 2011, 06:57 AM
#145
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<i>There were no immediate deaths (although I would guess many died subsequently as a result of radiation exposure)as a result of the mess at Three Mile Island</i>
What? You guess many died subsequently? Please get your facts straight before posting fiction as fact.
<i>"In Deference to Crisis, a New Obsession Sweeps Japan: Self-Restraint". </i>
If self restraint is a new concept to the Japanese people then I suggest the NYT author do just a hint of research before writing such a foolish statement. Then again it doesn't surprise me being the NYT. Kobe in recent history would be one example of restraint and after all this isn't the first nuclear crisis in Japan, or have you and the NYT author forgotten those also.
I know that I trust KimJapan's assessments, no sensationalizing, just the truth about what's happening on the ground. She has earned our trust, well at least mine.
Aloha!
What? You guess many died subsequently? Please get your facts straight before posting fiction as fact.
<i>"In Deference to Crisis, a New Obsession Sweeps Japan: Self-Restraint". </i>
If self restraint is a new concept to the Japanese people then I suggest the NYT author do just a hint of research before writing such a foolish statement. Then again it doesn't surprise me being the NYT. Kobe in recent history would be one example of restraint and after all this isn't the first nuclear crisis in Japan, or have you and the NYT author forgotten those also.
I know that I trust KimJapan's assessments, no sensationalizing, just the truth about what's happening on the ground. She has earned our trust, well at least mine.
Aloha!
Mar 28th, 2011, 01:00 PM
#146
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Bowsprit - you've said already that you are not in japan. How would you have any idea how it is here?-5 best you have word of mouth anecdote.
The article is limited to Tokyo - every example and comment is about Tojyo. I can guarantee you that the Hanami parties are happening in Kanazawa. Electronics shops have toned down the volume here but we aren't shopping in the dark - how do I know? Because I went to one the other night for light bulbs. It was bright and as usual except e err tv in the place was not switched on at high volume - a relief to be honest.
Restraint new? No. Don't forget that jJapan is a country that has endured much hardship. There are words that have no good English translation that includes the nuance of overcoming hardship and surviving - gambaru and gamansuru - roughly try hard and endure. The English translation in no way captures the spirit of these words.
The NYT writer has indeed done a good job capturing his/her impression of Tokyo now and is clearly a skilled writer. The writer, though, has even missed the point that much of Tokyo is living live as usual, working around difficulties. When you think about it logically, then you realize that there is little else to do.
The nuclear plant deaths - workers in the plant. I don't discount the value of their lives but you can't extrapolate from that and say people are dying in the general population. They are not. Have there been quake and tsunami deaths - you bet. That's not going to affect a tourist skiing in Niseko or cherry blossom viewing in Jyoto. Japan has earthquakes daily. They don't disrupt life save for the very big ones. Remember Kobe 1995? The city hosted the big high school baseball tournament (which is a major event) just three months afterwards. No one forgot the quake, its victims or damage, but life went on. . Tribute was paid to victims and games were played. This year, the team from Sendai, heavily impacted by the quake, attended and played in the tournament.
So while the article is factual, it's not appropriate to generalize the things stated there to a woke population and a whole country. Bowsprit, until you are actually in japan it might be wise to refrain from commenting on how things are, because you clearly have no idea about either how things are or about Japan now or ever; you're not only not here now, but you haven't spent time amongst the people and in the culture. You may have visited but you haven't lived here. 16 years on, living local rather than expat package style - I've got a clue, but recognize that even after all this time still haven't completely got it. There is no way you get it or even have a clue from a distance or from hearing what your husband's expat packAge coworker says, or from news sources. It's just not possible. So please, keep your mislead judgments to yourself.
HT - thanks.
. You've got to get to Kanazawa someday soon.
The article is limited to Tokyo - every example and comment is about Tojyo. I can guarantee you that the Hanami parties are happening in Kanazawa. Electronics shops have toned down the volume here but we aren't shopping in the dark - how do I know? Because I went to one the other night for light bulbs. It was bright and as usual except e err tv in the place was not switched on at high volume - a relief to be honest.
Restraint new? No. Don't forget that jJapan is a country that has endured much hardship. There are words that have no good English translation that includes the nuance of overcoming hardship and surviving - gambaru and gamansuru - roughly try hard and endure. The English translation in no way captures the spirit of these words.
The NYT writer has indeed done a good job capturing his/her impression of Tokyo now and is clearly a skilled writer. The writer, though, has even missed the point that much of Tokyo is living live as usual, working around difficulties. When you think about it logically, then you realize that there is little else to do.
The nuclear plant deaths - workers in the plant. I don't discount the value of their lives but you can't extrapolate from that and say people are dying in the general population. They are not. Have there been quake and tsunami deaths - you bet. That's not going to affect a tourist skiing in Niseko or cherry blossom viewing in Jyoto. Japan has earthquakes daily. They don't disrupt life save for the very big ones. Remember Kobe 1995? The city hosted the big high school baseball tournament (which is a major event) just three months afterwards. No one forgot the quake, its victims or damage, but life went on. . Tribute was paid to victims and games were played. This year, the team from Sendai, heavily impacted by the quake, attended and played in the tournament.
So while the article is factual, it's not appropriate to generalize the things stated there to a woke population and a whole country. Bowsprit, until you are actually in japan it might be wise to refrain from commenting on how things are, because you clearly have no idea about either how things are or about Japan now or ever; you're not only not here now, but you haven't spent time amongst the people and in the culture. You may have visited but you haven't lived here. 16 years on, living local rather than expat package style - I've got a clue, but recognize that even after all this time still haven't completely got it. There is no way you get it or even have a clue from a distance or from hearing what your husband's expat packAge coworker says, or from news sources. It's just not possible. So please, keep your mislead judgments to yourself.
HT - thanks.
. You've got to get to Kanazawa someday soon.
Mar 28th, 2011, 03:26 PM
#147
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Gambare Kobe, yes I remember that slogan now after the Kobe earthquake, thanks for reminding us Kim.
We are actually planning a koyo this mid Nov after Shanghai with two or three days in Kanazawa. We were planning day trips to Yamadera and Matsushima from Sendai but......
If we can pull it off I will definitely let you know. Would love to finally meet you. Just waiting for everything to calm down and fall into place.
Gambare Nippon!
We are actually planning a koyo this mid Nov after Shanghai with two or three days in Kanazawa. We were planning day trips to Yamadera and Matsushima from Sendai but......
If we can pull it off I will definitely let you know. Would love to finally meet you. Just waiting for everything to calm down and fall into place.
Gambare Nippon!
Mar 28th, 2011, 04:44 PM
#150
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Has anyone noticed any changes with airlines flying to Japan? Our local low cost carrier, Jetstar, are reducing the number of flights from Australia to Japan, because of the reduction of Japanese people travelling. I would also guess that fewer Japanese will be travelling overseas for leisure in the near future with the thought that they may think it's extravagant expenditure (my opinion.)
I know that checking the travel e-mails I get that almost no airlines are offering specials to Japan in the near future.
I think this is a real shame, given that as previous correspondents (and myself) have said, Japan needs our support trhough tourism, and there are plenty of other places where the locals will not mind, but implore you to visit.
I know that checking the travel e-mails I get that almost no airlines are offering specials to Japan in the near future.
I think this is a real shame, given that as previous correspondents (and myself) have said, Japan needs our support trhough tourism, and there are plenty of other places where the locals will not mind, but implore you to visit.
Mar 28th, 2011, 05:03 PM
#151
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KimJapan: With all due respect, I do trust the word of my husband's Japanese business partner over anyone else's. His advice has been constant and prudent: Don't visit Japan right now. The company is following his recommendation, of course.
As I said: I don't care what others do.
As I said: I don't care what others do.
Mar 28th, 2011, 05:38 PM
#153
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He is foreigner in Tokyo on an expat package? Or Japanese providing advise to corporate partners? Either way, it seems his advise is tailored to your husband's company staff visiting Tokyo. There are several things that can easily explain and discount his advice.
Plenty of foreigners in Tokyo have panicked, which is certainly understandable given they are in a foreign country and assuming they lack fluency in Japanese. If they are also living the expat life, they are insulated very well from reality, living in expensive subsidized housing with other expats who are similarly panicked. That can lead to an overall feeling that things are much worse and much more widespread than they really are. Someone living the expat life in Tokyo is absolutely disconnected from life in Japan anywhere. There are supermarkets and mail order services here that cater to foreigners who can't bear to not have their familiar products. One such company lists items like paper towels and shampoo as best sellers, at prices triple or more what we can buy the same of locally, for example. Expats relying solely on English language resources like CNN and the embassy, will be needlessly led to believe the world is coming to an end all over Japan. Believe me, it's not, but it is hard to break out of that expat shell if you are in it.
If he is Japanese, I can even more easily see him advising corporate partners not to come. He does not want them to experience any discomfort or inconvenience of any sort. If the offices and lodging are in scheduled blackout areas then he will for sure advise against a visit. If there is any chance of any discomfort for the guest, the Japanese host will advise against the visit - it could harm business. Japanese are very cautious and conservative in this way. The way business is conducted relies on things like entertainment, much business being conducted outside of the office, after hours in bars and izakayas.
The advise not to come to Japan is probably prudent for the company's situation and needs, though perhaps it is a bit cautious. It cannot be universally applied to the country as a whole or to every potential visitor.
You can certainly feel free to heed his advice for your situation. I don't think anyone, your husband's colleague included, would apply this advice in the way you are, extrapolating Tokyo and Tohoku to mean the entire country, and your company situation to everyone. It defies basic logic.
So again, immediate plans to Tokyo - if you are uncomfortable with the possibility of rolling blackouts (which do not happen every day nor in the central areas), reduced transport schedules, the chance of aftershock or quake (which is not much different than the every day risk), then visit. If not, cancel. Radiation is not a problem in Tokyo at the moment, and even when levels are elevated above normal, take that elevation in perspective and you'll see that it is not so alarming.
Plans to Kyoto, Kansai area, Hokkaido, southern and western Japan, no problem. If you sightsee only, you won't notice a thing except perhaps fewer people, which is good. The is no reason not to visit these areas, which is the majority of the country, unless you feel that visiting will be difficult for you emotionally or affect your enjoyment in light of the disaster. There is no physical damage to be seen, no shortages except batteries, and you will be welcomed.
So Bowsprit, take the advice you've been given and use it for yourself and your situation, share what you've been told, but don't apply it to every situation and every potential traveler, because you just can't do that. Get out a map if you must, but know that the affected areas are but a part of the country. Understand that we are living here as we always have, perhaps watching the news a bit more often.
Plenty of foreigners in Tokyo have panicked, which is certainly understandable given they are in a foreign country and assuming they lack fluency in Japanese. If they are also living the expat life, they are insulated very well from reality, living in expensive subsidized housing with other expats who are similarly panicked. That can lead to an overall feeling that things are much worse and much more widespread than they really are. Someone living the expat life in Tokyo is absolutely disconnected from life in Japan anywhere. There are supermarkets and mail order services here that cater to foreigners who can't bear to not have their familiar products. One such company lists items like paper towels and shampoo as best sellers, at prices triple or more what we can buy the same of locally, for example. Expats relying solely on English language resources like CNN and the embassy, will be needlessly led to believe the world is coming to an end all over Japan. Believe me, it's not, but it is hard to break out of that expat shell if you are in it.
If he is Japanese, I can even more easily see him advising corporate partners not to come. He does not want them to experience any discomfort or inconvenience of any sort. If the offices and lodging are in scheduled blackout areas then he will for sure advise against a visit. If there is any chance of any discomfort for the guest, the Japanese host will advise against the visit - it could harm business. Japanese are very cautious and conservative in this way. The way business is conducted relies on things like entertainment, much business being conducted outside of the office, after hours in bars and izakayas.
The advise not to come to Japan is probably prudent for the company's situation and needs, though perhaps it is a bit cautious. It cannot be universally applied to the country as a whole or to every potential visitor.
You can certainly feel free to heed his advice for your situation. I don't think anyone, your husband's colleague included, would apply this advice in the way you are, extrapolating Tokyo and Tohoku to mean the entire country, and your company situation to everyone. It defies basic logic.
So again, immediate plans to Tokyo - if you are uncomfortable with the possibility of rolling blackouts (which do not happen every day nor in the central areas), reduced transport schedules, the chance of aftershock or quake (which is not much different than the every day risk), then visit. If not, cancel. Radiation is not a problem in Tokyo at the moment, and even when levels are elevated above normal, take that elevation in perspective and you'll see that it is not so alarming.
Plans to Kyoto, Kansai area, Hokkaido, southern and western Japan, no problem. If you sightsee only, you won't notice a thing except perhaps fewer people, which is good. The is no reason not to visit these areas, which is the majority of the country, unless you feel that visiting will be difficult for you emotionally or affect your enjoyment in light of the disaster. There is no physical damage to be seen, no shortages except batteries, and you will be welcomed.
So Bowsprit, take the advice you've been given and use it for yourself and your situation, share what you've been told, but don't apply it to every situation and every potential traveler, because you just can't do that. Get out a map if you must, but know that the affected areas are but a part of the country. Understand that we are living here as we always have, perhaps watching the news a bit more often.
Mar 28th, 2011, 05:48 PM
#154
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Sydney,
Yes the events in Japan have taken their toll economically around the world. Ours friends son who is married with a new baby and worked for JAL as a flight attendant was laid off last week. My wife's workmate's sister had her hours cut in half as a stewardess on NW. She has been with the company for almost twenty years. Future plans by airlines have been curtailed and the list and losses go on and on. If the slide could have been stopped before it happened it might have been better but looks like the avalanche of cancellations have already started so from a business standpoint you know what that means. A few interesting things happening.
http://tinyurl.com/6amkqdr
http://tinyurl.com/6a7ndr6
http://tinyurl.com/4ctjos8
Kim, No I didn't know about PVG/KMQ, thanks again! We were going down to Kumamoto and the Kurokawa Onsen area so had thought about flying into KIX and starting from there then making our way around down south then eventually to Kyoto, Kanazawa then back to Tokyo where we would fly out. But why not Kanazawa first? I've got to do more research obviously but that's the fun part. I need to chart when the koyo will start this year in the Western part of Japan and not the Northeast as previous plans were for.
Aloha!
p.s.
bs, you have a lot more to learn from your husbands Japanese business partner. btw, why are you reading this if you don't care?
Yes the events in Japan have taken their toll economically around the world. Ours friends son who is married with a new baby and worked for JAL as a flight attendant was laid off last week. My wife's workmate's sister had her hours cut in half as a stewardess on NW. She has been with the company for almost twenty years. Future plans by airlines have been curtailed and the list and losses go on and on. If the slide could have been stopped before it happened it might have been better but looks like the avalanche of cancellations have already started so from a business standpoint you know what that means. A few interesting things happening.
http://tinyurl.com/6amkqdr
http://tinyurl.com/6a7ndr6
http://tinyurl.com/4ctjos8
Kim, No I didn't know about PVG/KMQ, thanks again! We were going down to Kumamoto and the Kurokawa Onsen area so had thought about flying into KIX and starting from there then making our way around down south then eventually to Kyoto, Kanazawa then back to Tokyo where we would fly out. But why not Kanazawa first? I've got to do more research obviously but that's the fun part. I need to chart when the koyo will start this year in the Western part of Japan and not the Northeast as previous plans were for.
Aloha!
p.s.
bs, you have a lot more to learn from your husbands Japanese business partner. btw, why are you reading this if you don't care?
Mar 28th, 2011, 06:31 PM
#155
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I decided to cancel my trip scheduled for 3/30 - 4/13 last night after I spoke to my friend in Kyoto - she was concerned about the Fukushima plant and was worried that it might somehow affect my transportation home if things escalated - even though I still felt confident since she thought I should cancel I did....sadly....possibly I will go in the fall for koyo....
Mar 28th, 2011, 06:57 PM
#156
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hawaiian travel....does it matter if BS is not comfortable travelling to Japan now or if she is comfortable taking the advice of a person she knows? A stranger on this board has kindly offered her perspective that she believes travel is safe. BS's husband's business partner said no. Others with friends in japan say yes. Some of us with relatives say absolutely no. I don't think there is a clear cut answer on this question. It depends on the individual traveller's comfort level. Those of us who cancelled feel sad...I know I do. But in our case, i won't risk exposing our kids to radiation in order to boost up Japan's economy. The situation still seems unresolved and the information on the radiation still seems sketchy--in my opinion. I wouldn't talk anyone into going to Japan now nor would I say it is their duty to keep their trip plans to boost the economy. It is just a terrible tragedy all the way around.
Mar 28th, 2011, 07:26 PM
#157
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emmagus, no it does not matter to me at all that bs is not comfortable traveling to Japan right now. I don't think "she kindly offered her perspective" but that is my opinion and I am not supposed to be able to read according to some here. I know your situation and sympathize with you and agree with your wholeheartedly in your decision. It is the misinformation and out and out untruths that I have objected to. Its not only about the economy but the future. Sorry you see it that way
Mar 28th, 2011, 07:37 PM
#158
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Interesting articles, ht - if AA flew to KIX I probably wouldn't have canceled my trip.....in my case the folks who seemed most against my trip were Japanese, both in Japan and others I know in NYC - I discounted my American friends who although concerned hadn't the vaguest idea of Japan geography....
Mar 28th, 2011, 07:41 PM
#159
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nor did I say it was anyone's <b>duty</b> to keep their trip plans.....
Mara, sorry you had to cancel, hate when things like this happen at the last minute but there is always the fall, good luck!
Aloha!
Mara, sorry you had to cancel, hate when things like this happen at the last minute but there is always the fall, good luck!
Aloha!
Mar 28th, 2011, 07:44 PM
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I am sure this thread will still be going when I get back from Japan and I will be glad to report to you.
Getting first hand information is invaluable which is why KimJapan's perspective is so important.
Is there anybody else on this thread who actually lives in Japan or has been there in the past week ?
Getting first hand information is invaluable which is why KimJapan's perspective is so important.
Is there anybody else on this thread who actually lives in Japan or has been there in the past week ?
