shelleyk

My problem with taking photos had more to do with being jostled. The streets in the cities are unbelieveably crowded at times, so much so that it is impossible to get a street scene from the midst of the crowds. Hence, the need for a rickshaw to be above the crowds. We never felt that we were in jeopardy of having our camera equipment grabbed.

thursdaysd

I never pay for photos on principle, but I do ask before taking photos of people, unless it's a very general street scene.

Marija

Our second day in Varanasi started with the usual sunrise boat ride on the Ganges. Again we floated down the river gawking at bathers, worshippers, cremators, flower purveyors and clothes washers, among others, while the guide rattled on about the miraculous purity of the obviously filthy river. Our guide suggested we buy a floating cup with a marigold and candle and release it in the water so, ever compliant, we did, relieved that we didn’t accidentally immerse ourselves while trying to set it free. I was well prepared with insect repellant but I didn’t need it. Looks like the bugs were still hung over from last night’s excesses.
After we got off the boat we successfully dodged a cobra charmer and carefully followed our guide through the ridiculously narrow excrement-decorated streets. We visited a few odd temples, including the Mother India temple which Bruce was enamored with. He really liked the large centerpiece relief map of India. The trip back to the hotel for breakfast was quick. Early morning traffic was a breeze compared to last night.

We reconvened a couple of hours later for the trip to Sarnath and Deer Park. The road took us through “new” Varanasi which was a tad more reputable looking than “old” Varanasi. The guide insisted on driving us through the sprawling grounds of Benares University. (I don’t think the time spent there was enough to write off the trip as a business expense.) The ride was fascinating, hampered only by the incessant lecturing by the guide. We never did figure out how to say “Can’t we just look out the window in peace, please?!” The lecture continued at Sarnath where we were told much more about the intricacies of Buddhism than we ever wanted to know. Sarnath is a peaceful oasis and a good site for Buddha’s first sermon after enlightenment. We walked around the ruins and Deer Park, admiring the spotted deer and enjoying watching pilgrims, including many Japanese and Koreans expressing their religious fervor. The last stop was the Sarnath archaeological museum which houses the Ashokan pillar, four back to back lions, that is the national symbol of India.

Our guide wanted to take us to a silk making demonstration and shop. I told him in advance I would not buy anything and I didn’t, although the shop had nice silk items. A guide substantially increases the cost but we found it very difficult to ditch guides. You can’t just say, stay outside while we go in. In the afternoon we ventured out on our own to the street in front of the hotel and looked at several silk shops but didn’t buy anything. We also went a short carriage ride around the grounds of the Taj. A wedding was taking place that evening and the preparations and decorations were remarkable. We were hoping to observe the wedding festivities since our room faced the tented pavilion and we had binoculars that we brought for our safari portion. We kept looking but never saw more than people milling around. By morning they had left.

For the evening’s entertainment we were offered either a visit to a musician’s house or a visit to an astrologer. Bruce’s professional interests include medieval (European) astrology so he wanted to see what Indian astrology involved. We made sure to bring the exact time of his birth (in different time zones) and the latitude and longitude of his birthplace. We made it very clear to the arranger that Bruce wanted to have an astrological chart drawn, not a palm reading. The designated astrologer made house calls so he came to the hotel instead of us visiting him. Bruce tried to explain what he wanted to the astrologer with little success. This guy wanted to read his palm. Bruce finally consented to a palm reading after the astrologer promised to deliver a chart in the morning. And he did, a computer generated printout that had incorrect information about the critical birth time and location. Bruce and the astrologer spent quite some time discussing the 30 or so pages of output. This was an exercise Bruce repeated in Jaipur and attempted in Jodphur (the royal astrologer still hasn’t e-mailed the results!).

Next: Khajuraho.

dogster

Fascinating stuff guys
.. I'll be in India tomorrow.

By the way, next time you come across an Indian/Sri Lankan/Nepali wedding, go down and hover at the doorway 'just having a look...'

I've been invited in on several occasions, fed and much feted - apparently as honoured representative of The Rest Of The World. So gracious - and a lotta fun.

The trick, of course, is to be extremely respectful [of course] interested in the proceedings [easy] - and not to overstay your welcome.

Marija

Have a great time, dogster! I'll look forward to your report. Thanks for the info on how to get an invite to an Indian wedding.

Marija

Whenever we travel we enjoy reading the local newspapers (the ones that are in English). Indian papers didn’t disappoint. Besides the scandals with Dr. Kidney who was removing kidneys unbeknownst to patients and selling them, there were quite a few stories questioning the safety of the United States as a destination for Indian students, even before the shootings at Northern Illinois University. To balance this there were stories describing one of the new national goals: getting people to assist accident victims instead of letting them die on the streets…. Evidently this is a problem on Indian streets.

Our Jet Airways flight to Khajuraho was uneventful. Once again the flight attendants passed out “satisfaction surveys” five minutes into the flight. India has enthusiastically adopted Total Quality Management, and Indian companies have received many of the very prestigious Deming awards. If TQM can be taken to extremes, India has done so. Everywhere we went we were handed LONG questionnaires asking us to evaluate everything and everyone. If we had filled out all of the forms we probably would have spent 10% of our time in India performing evaluations. (This is only a slight exaggeration.) Even Bruce who is genetically compelled to fill out forms started turning them over to me so I could either discard them or do the bare minimum. I’m all for evaluation but when they ask you to rate the guide or driver who is looking over your shoulder that doesn’t result in useful information. When I thanked someone for a shoeshine at an Oberoi they immediately went over to the desk and pulled out a hotel evaluation form and asked that I note on the form that the shoe shine was good!

Khajuraho was a pleasant change from the congestion of Delhi and Varanasi. The “erotic temples” are the main attraction. (The Oberoi chain is going to build a hotel on the outskirts of Khajuraho, and CC Africa/Taj hotels is opening a joint venture safari lodge at nearby Panna National Park, so it may become a more popular destination.) We stayed at the Taj Chandela, a large modern hotel with spacious rooms and good food. We had allocated an afternoon to the temples since we were leaving the next morning by car for a safari at Bandhavgarh National Park.

These were the first elaborate temples that we had seen and we were duly impressed by the beautiful carvings, erotic or not. Our guide had a slick presentation with well rehearsed jokes geared for busloads of tourists. I found him amusing while Bruce was less impressed. We started with the Western group of temples and then proceeded to the less elaborate Eastern group, declining an offer to visit to a woodcarving store enroute. (We did buy a copy of the Kama Sutra from an old woman far removed from the hordes of people selling tourist goods.)

In the evening we went to the light and sound show at the Western temples. The script was hokey but we enjoyed the opportunity to focus on the history and construction of these remarkable thousand-year-old temples. The setting--chairs in the middle of a field with astonishingly beautiful temples sprouting from the ground on all sides--really was extraordinary. After a thali dinner at the hotel we went to bed early since we had a five o’clock wake-up for the long car journey to Bandhavgarh.

Here’s a link to the safari portion of our trip:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35110964

Craig

Enjoying your report (and the link to the Africa board on your tiger safaris). You have a great writing style. Looking forward to more...

Marija

Craig,
Thanks for reading!

shelleyk

We were in India in Feb. and thought Khajaraho and its temples were one of the highlights of our trip. We also enjoyed Orcha which like Khajaraho was a great and needed change from the big cities. If anyone can fit these 2 places into your India itinerary, I think you would not be disappointed. As far as the surveys go, we were not offered any, but had we been given one on our India Air flights, I would have rated them an F on every level (cleanliness, food, age of planes, service). Avoid Air India at all costs. It was by far the worst airline we have ever flown on.

CFW

We found Kingfisher and Jet Airways were bothgreat -- especially Kingfisher. No delays, excellent service and the airport, modern comfortable, clean planes. The biggest surprise of all was that the Indian food served on even the shortest 1 hour flights was delicious, if you can believe that. Handing out those feedback forms apparently has an effect...and shows how much they care about pleasing the customers. It seems to be working!

Leely

Marjia and Bruce,

I bet you didn't think someone from the Africa board was following this portion, but I have been and it's wonderful. This is probably not a trip that I can make for several years (still have Rwanda/Uganda to tackle and v. little time off--and even less $), but it's definitely something I want to do sooner rather than later.

I appreciate all the detail! Asante sana!

waynehazle

Marija,

I am thrilled to read your report!
I am glad to hear Bruce loved the Mother India temple too. I love that place.

agtoau

Marija, don't be misled by the perfunctory questionnaires and surveys. Almost always they mean nothing in India. Now, you were fortunate to sample a product - Jet Airways - that is at the top of its game by any standards. Same with Kingfisher Airlines, or the Oberoi hotels. But to draw any larger conclusions about service levels (abysmal!) or the quest for excellence (none!) in India would be an error.

CFW

Agtoau,

I have to disagree with you about service in India, at least for tourists. We thought service was amazing. People we encountered were warm, friendly, gracious, and simply couldn't do enough to make our trip one of the best we've had. In our opinion, India is right up there with Thailand for great service with a smile.

agtoau

CFW, this is the problem with being a tourist and drawing conclusions about a place & people. What you see is a snapshot, not the whole movie. Several places are great to visit and spend a few days in, but hellish if you were to actually live there long-term. India, being what it is, is even more complex than your typical third-world country, for there are many Indias even for Indians. But this much can be said for all Indian cities and towns: they have become unpleasant, noisy outdoor toilets, with no civic niceties to recommend them. We might like to believe in human goodness everywhere and all that, but reality cannot be wished away.

Finally - I can show you as many Indians who are not warm, who are unfriendly and ungracious as the ones you met.

shelleyk

agotau-From my brief, recent visit to India, this is exactly the impression I got of India as a country-pockets of 5 star hotels with very good service and beautiful palaces and monuments, both for tourist consumption, and the rest of the country with its massive poverty and very little infrastructure (roads, water, sewers)for the people who live there full time . The Indian people we came in contact with were very warm and welcoming. But again, these were people who for the most part are fairly comfortable and not living in abject poverty and also cater to the tourist industry.

CFW

"I can show you as many Indians who are not warm, who are unfriendly and ungracious as the ones you met."
Agtoau, That is true about any place.

Yes, we were tourists, and we stayed in nice places, but we've been tourists in other more developed countries (including the US), and stayed in nice places that didn't have such consistently excellent service. Also, though we were tourists we saw more than just the monuments and 5* hotels, including the impoverished village where one of our guides had grown up and had family. We also visited an SOS chidren's village for abandoned and orphaned children. India certainly has its problems, both economic and social, and more than its share of poverty and squalor, but I can only tell you that the people we came in contact with were warm and welcoming. Glad we didn't meet the others who are not -- for that I can stay home and go to work every day!

Marija

We returned to the Taj Chandela for an overnight before setting out for Agra by way of Orchha. Since we had eaten a big lunch at the safari lodge, we decided on a light dinner at the bar. In the booth next to us a safari clad woman speaking New York English held court. I speculated that it might be fodor’s Dreaming of India Bonita and I was astonished when she introduced herself as Bonita to someone joining her gathering.

The next morning, after the standard Taj Indian breakfast, we set off for the train to Agra, stopping to visit Orchha. Before we left home I was quite concerned that we would have two six hour drives on successive days. From what I read, Indian roads were going to be a nightmare. We loved them. When we arrived at Orchha we were deposited at the Orchha Resort where we had a lunch voucher. (We only had two lunch vouchers, one at Orchha and one at Ranakpur. I think tour operators include these to make sure you eat at “safe” places when on the road.) Our initial impression of the dining room was not favorable. The room was pretty empty and featured a buffet which we didn’t want to eat. (As part of our stay-well strategy we only ate buffets at breakfast when there was no alternative.) The vegetarian items on the lunch menu were not particularly appealing and we ended up selecting vegetable kabobs and a potato dish. We were very surprised when they turned out to be excellent. The vegetable kabobs were more like cooked vegetable patties with wonderful seasonings. Based on the success of this dish we tried ordering vegetable kabobs at other places but they just weren’t as good. (The British ladies at an adjacent table ordered spaghetti again since they had enjoyed it for dinner the night before…)

Fortified we set out in search of the guide who was to show us Orchha, a destination that was added to our itinerary by the travel agent because it was a convenient stop on the way to Agra. What a great addition! Besides the cenotaphs which are viewed only in profile, there’s an atmospheric fort with interesting structures. The fort was fairly deserted and it was most enjoyable to wander through it, imaging what life must have been life in its glory days. We walked through a bustling local market on our way out, even though that was the long way to the waiting car. No doubt it’s good for the local economy to walk the tourists through the village, though we didn’t do our share of contributing to this village’s economy.

From Orcha we set off to Jhansi where we were to catch an express train to Agra. The first stop was somewhere in Jhansi where we exchanged our Orchha tour guide for a train embarkation specialist. Since the train was said to be a half hour late we drove to the train station and just sat out in the car in front of it, trying to ignore the constant tapping of beggars on the windows. We’ve passed through many train stations in our days but this one was like no other. We discussed whether we could manage it on our own and had to admit that it appeared daunting and we were relieved that all we had to do was sit in the car, follow the leader and then pass out tips. No way could we carry our suitcases on our heads up several flights of stairs like the porter did…

The train ride was pleasant and uneventful and we did get to experience that well documented Indian stare, though we were certainly well behaved and undeserving of such attention. Once we pulled into Agra we were met at the train door by the train greeters and taken to our car, where we reunited with the driver we had in Delhi . He took us to the Oberoi Amarvilas, where it was much too dark to see the Taj Mahal. We had to trust that we could see it from our well appointed room. After some negotiation we agreed on a 7:00 AM visit to the Taj Mahal, an hour earlier than the suggested time.

We couldn’t get into the Indian specialty restaurant so we settled for the continental restaurant where we ordered Indian food. The service was much too solicitous for us. The waiter was at our table so often that it was really a dinner for three, though we refused to share the well prepared food.

rhkkmk

i love your last statements....well put...

did you speak to bonita??

Marija

Bob--

I didn't speak to Bonita, though I had exchanged a couple of e-mails with her at the early planning stages of our trip. I didn't like the fact that she tacks on "a little extra" for herself to the tour cost besides that charged by the travel agency. I can see the travel agency giving her a commission but not "a small fee" from the traveler on top of it.