Ruth

I've read your postings and you say to barter-- I have only dept. stores by me and do not know how to bargain... Any input for a novice visiting Beijing and Shanghai? Thanks!

Andrea

No problem! This is one of my favorite activities, and I'm getting quite good at it! Fortunately, a lot can be done with pantomime. I think this post will be too long, so I'll post in 2 parts. <BR> <BR>Here's an example exchange (I'll do the whole thing in USD, but you should have a cheat sheet w. you w. conversions, because you’ll do far better if you do it in RMB): <BR> <BR>You spy a wooden jewellery box w. carvings that you just HAVE to have. You consider how much you'd pay in the states (minimum of $30 - 60+), and then consider what your maximum price would be. Say, US $50, because it’s so unique. <BR> <BR>YOU (pick something else up first, then pick up what you want, look at it for a minute – they may start talking to you about your item, but just smile, shake your head “no,” put it down, and look at some other items. Finally, pick up the one you really want again): How much is this? <BR> <BR>DEALER: You say how much. <BR> <BR>YOU: No, no. You say how much. <BR> <BR>DEALER: For you, a very special deal. US $50. <BR> <BR>YOU: (reacting in complete and utter shock, as if he’s said US $7,000) OH, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry. (Embarrassed, you put it back). Sorry. That’s way too much. (Pick up another item, stall). <BR> <BR>DEALER: This one, you say how much. <BR> <BR>YOU: (Pretend he’s said US $7,000, and your offer of US $10 will offend him greatly). No, no, sorry. That one’s nice, but it’s too expensive. I could only pay US $10. <BR> <BR>DEALER: (Clutching at heart, feigning shock, dismay, even anger): WHAT? No, no, no, no. For US $10, you can have this teeny, tiny, beat up one. THIS one will cost at least US $30. <BR> <BR>YOU: (Reeling in shock). Oh, no. Sorry, sorry. That’s too much. Thank you anyway. (Pick up something else, preferably in neighbouring stall, if not, something really small and inexpensive). <BR> <BR>DEALER (picking it up again): This one, US $25. OK? OK? <BR> <BR>Note: It’s not OK. Keep going. Both of you are just getting warmed up.

Andrea

Bargaining part 2: <BR> <BR>YOU: No, no thank you. That one’s too expensive. I could pay at most US $12. <BR> <BR>DEALER: This one cost ME US $20. Because we’re old friends, I can give it to you for US $25. That’s my lowest price. Sorry. I cannot. <BR> <BR>(Depending on how much you want that particular item, this could be time to break out the BIG GUNS . . . apologise again, say “How about US $13?” and then, when they say no, WALK AWAY, slowly, lingering on other items on their table and on the next one. 9 times out of 10, they will call you back. If they don’t, you can pick right back up where you left off when you come back in a few minutes. If you really want to play hardball, when they call you back, say “no, no, sorry, too expensive, and really walk away, then come back in a few minutes.) <BR> <BR>DEALER: OK. You are a good bargainer. US $20. That’s the lowest I can go. Normally I sell similar ones for US $40. But just this once, I can sell it for US $20. <BR> <BR>(If you're travelling with someone, now would be a good time to have them come over, and the two of you can talk it over. The conversation should be about how you don't really need this silly thing, and the guy is asking US $20 - saying this with a tone in your voice like he's asking US $7,000!! - and how you really should only pay US 10. Your friend should get a look of disdain on their face, watching you waste SO MUCH of your money on some thing so silly). <BR> <BR>YOU: No, sorry. US $14, ok. Yes, that’s a very good price. See how this one has a chip in the paint right here? <BR> <BR>DEALER: (Smiles, shakes head “No”). Of course it has a chip. This is very old! Qing dynasty! US $19, OK. Very good price. Yes. OK. I’ll wrap it up. <BR> <BR>YOU: No, no (perhaps feigning to walk away again, frowning, concentrating, considering carefully). US 15. Yes, yes (taking money out, handing the equiv. of US 15. <BR> <BR>DEALER: Ok, ok. <BR> <BR>Honestly, when I first got here, I was embarrassed to offer much lower than the original offer for fear of offending the person, or I’d stop when they hit the price I had in mind. Invariably, this meant that I ended up paying 3 times what they would have charged a shrewder bargainer (is “shrewder” a word?). <BR> <BR>DON’T BE. You WON’T offend them (as long as you’re smiling), and they honestly wouldn’t sell it to you at a price they didn’t like, so don't feel bad. It’s just that their REAL lowest price is about 1/5th what they’ll mention in the first place, and about 1/10th what you’d expect to pay. <BR> <BR>When my parents were here, we had the funniest time, because they’d see something they wanted, and then I’d go through a 15 minute bargaining session, and say: “I got the figurine for you for $1.” Then they’d say: “Oh, he’s just so nice, though! I’m going to give him $3 anyway!” <BR> <BR>Another time, my mom and I were bargaining for a large tablecloth with hand embroidery. The lady started at 500 RMB (maybe $55 US). After quite a bit of bargaining, I had her down to 200 RMB. I was still making my concentrated, concerned face, doing the stalling technique, when my mom, thinking that she’d picked up on my techniques, says, “Will you take . . . 180 RMB?” Pleased as punch, the lady happily agreed and wrapped it up. I pulled my mom aside and said (quietly): “Yeah, mom, I’m sure she will . . . I’m also sure she would have taken 120 or even 100!” Oh well. My mom and the lady were both happy.

Emily

Andrea gives a beautiful description of how to bargain in China! Don't worry, you won't be offending them -- the shop owners expect to go through this whole process everytime they sell anything to anyone. As long as you keep it pleasant and cheerful, it's fun for everybody. Just keep in mind that no matter how low you can make them go, be assured that they'll still end up making a profit off their sale to you!

Audrey

Andrea has a wonderful explanation of how the bartering system works. I have two additional comments. I do not believe you can barter in the department stores but maybe some of the other readers can advise on that point. When you do agree on a price you are expected to purchase the item. Do not play a game with them to see how low you can get them to go and then walk away.

cb

What also helped for me is learning to say "too expensive" in Mandarin. (sorry, I've forgotten what it is because I've moved on to another language). The Chinese will be pleasantly surprised and tend not to be insulted no matter how low your first offer is.

Andrea

The previous poster is right. The Chinese (like most cultures) will be very pleased that you know some of their language, and it will make the bargaining experience more positive, and you are likely to get a better deal. Here are the basics (I will write them in Pin Yin first - or at least, to the best of my ability, then give a pronounciation guide): <BR> <BR>The MOST important phrase for you to learn: <BR> <BR>"Bu yao, xie-xie" <BR> <BR>This whole phrase essentially means "No, thanks, I'm not interested." This is VITAL for navigating any markets or tourist areas. Sometimes, the vendors will literally follow you down the path, tugging on your shirt and offering you something you have NO interest in. Just smile and repeat: "Bu yao, xie, xie. Bu yao, xie xie" Works like a charm, and I have verified with my Chinese friends that it is indeed polite. Pronounce it like "Boo Yau (rhymes with cow) she-ay she-ay." The xie xie part is "thank you," and you need to run the she-ay part into one syllable so that it rhymes with clay. <BR> <BR>"Duo xiao chin?" - "How much?" <BR> <BR>Prounounce it: <BR>dwo (rhymes with GO), <BR>shao (rhymes with cow), <BR>chin (like the body part). <BR> <BR>Finally, "Tai gui le!" - "Too expensive!!" <BR> <BR>The key to this one is not pronounciation, but attitude. Shock, amusement at the rediculous price of $2, etc. <BR> <BR>Tie (like a man's tie) <BR>Gway (rhymes with hay) <BR>le (rhymes with the) <BR> <BR>(The "le" part is also optional - I don't know the gramatical function, I just know that it's what I hear Chinese people saying) <BR> <BR>Dway (rhymes with hay) is "Yes" <BR> <BR>Bu (sounds like Boo) is "No" <BR> <BR>You'll really sound like you know what your doing if you say: "Oh, bu bu bu bu bu!" while shaking your head "no" (and smiling). <BR> <BR>Also, all vendors will have a calculator onto which they type their price, and then pass you you to type yours. It's best, when they type 400 and hand it to you, to NOT take it right away, instead saying "Oh, bu bu bu bu bu. Tai gui le!", then taking it and typing in 50. <BR> <BR>Good luck!

xxx

The Silk Alley and Dirt Market are two great places to try out your bargaining skills. At Dirt Market, few of the stall owners speak English, so just ask to punch in your offer on the calculator and bargain with that for means of communication.

topper

Topping

Peter Neville-Hadley

A few minor amendments to Andrea's detailed and amusing account of turning bargaining into a theatrical performance above, although this smacks rather more of the India experience, or other English-speaking area, than of China, although the general principles are the same:<BR><BR>In any market known to foreigners, and especially those dealing in antiques (or 'antiques', more likely), the first asking price is often TEN to FIFTEEN times what might actually be acceptable, and this multiple is likely to increase as years go by. <BR><BR>The Xiushiu Silk Market ("Silk Alley") thrives on hapless tourists due to its proximity to several four- and five-star hotels, and gets a sufficiently large volume that only the clearest indication in good Chinese that you weren't born yesterday and shop here all the time, will get you down from Y150-250 for that fake (and it's ALL fakes here) Polo shirt to Y40-45. For this kind of shopping the peripatetic market at the Sanlitun expat watering hole area, now in its third location there, is a better choice.<BR><BR>The opening prices given are all about positioning, and very little to do with the final price you should pay. As suggested, never make the first offer. <BR><BR>The seller loses very little by quoting an astronomical first price: he can back out of it immediately if he needs to, but previous experience shows that there are a lot of dumb tourists who will simply open their wallets and give him Y500 for something worth Y30.<BR><BR>The purpose of your first response to the seller's first offer (as suggested, never be the first to name a price) is, smiling or laughing, to suggest that you are not as wet behind the ears as you look, and that you've been around a while, and "Hey, come on; let's talk sense here," So Y30 on a Y500 item is a good start. You, too, have nothing to lose.<BR><BR>If the stallholder, disgusted, refuses to talk further, don't go up in price, just move on. You should never buy at the first stall (or second, and rarely third). Bartering is about knowledge. Those of us with Mandarin can stand around saying nothing and just listening to the Chinese buying for Y30, and thus discover what we should pay. Those without need gradually to gain knowledge by successive bartering encounters before a purchase is finally made. Always being willing to walk away is the best route to the lowest price. Hanging around so long that you're nearly invisible, and seeing what the Chinese hand over in cash is the only alternative.<BR><BR>Finally, some minor corrections to the Chinese:<BR><BR>"How much?" is "Duo shao qian", with the last word pronounced more to rhyme with "or" than "go", and the "qian" something like the "chi" of "chin" (but harder) rapidly followed by "-en".<BR><BR>But in this context it must be admitted that just about any version of this, however toneless and mangled, will do the job.<BR><BR>"Dui" means not "Yes", but "That's correct." "Bu" isn't really "No", and needs a verb after it (as in the example given "bu yao"--"not want", although it is sometimes used as described. <BR><BR>If you're really only interested in looking and getting tired of being pestered, the following is useful:<BR><BR>"Wo shenme dou bu yao!" -- "I don't want anything at all"; literally "I something all not want." The "shenme" is very roughly said "shummer", and the "dou" is "dough". We won't go into tones here, essential for any serious communication in Mandarin, but the message generally gets across. <BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html