30 d Japan trip; 3 more days left, where to go
Aug 24th, 2018, 01:09 PM
#21
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30 d Japan trip; 3 more nights left, where to go
Thanks a lot for the useful information. At this point I am inclined to finish my trip in Karuizawa. I would be missing out on the lakes region which I regret, but I will not be able to see everything in one trip. I have to do some more reading and looking at transportation before I make the final decisions and then also get back to accommodations 6 months before the trip. Maybe more will show up. Right now many that I would consider show SOLD OUT....
Aug 24th, 2018, 05:57 PM
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I have no way of knowing for sure one way or the other. Many times I try first to book on the hotel's website, but find that some of these websites (at least the English version) are hard to use, not reliable, don't have enough info, etc. I recently encountered a batch of hotels which apparently had their booking application compromised (stated on the website); they asked you to call if you wanted to book. So most of the time I use Booking.com that I find quite transparent, easy to use and with good customer service. To-date, I had no issues with them (unlike with Agoda).
When I go to Booking.com, I see that reservation is open at least 1 year ahead of time. I never understood why certain hotels in Japan allow tourists to reserve hotels only 3 months before their date. During the process, I also learned that the same hotel can have different policies (cancellation, reservation, payment, etc.) and very different prices depending on which website you use (their own, the English version, the Japanese version, etc.). I also learned that some hotels and SOME booking websites have unpublished agreements between them, based on which the unsuspecting customers end up with hidden charges. This has NOTHING to do with credit card usage or a foreign exchange fee. When you don't pay up-front during reservation in $s, but you pay in yen at the hotel, what's posted on your card uses a "special" exchange rate (as on your credit card statement you will see the yens converted in $s), which is not what the credit card's exchange is, but a lot worse. I tested this with Booking.com and with Agoda. Per Agoda, "Agoda’s rates come from our most updated, independent partners", not available to customers. Per Booking.com, their exchange rates are the same as the credit card's and can be looked up any time on Visa's or Master Card's websites and they are very close to what XE.com shows. Using Agoda, not knowingly, one ends up paying a few hundred dollars more if paying at the hotel in local currency. I luckily learned my lesson before having to pay anything. So buyer beware.
Long story short, I don't know if seeing on Booking.com SOLD OUT, really means sold out or not. it would be helpful to know. I will re-check in September/October some of those hotels that I considered but appear to be unavailable for my dates for the type of room I am looking for.
When I go to Booking.com, I see that reservation is open at least 1 year ahead of time. I never understood why certain hotels in Japan allow tourists to reserve hotels only 3 months before their date. During the process, I also learned that the same hotel can have different policies (cancellation, reservation, payment, etc.) and very different prices depending on which website you use (their own, the English version, the Japanese version, etc.). I also learned that some hotels and SOME booking websites have unpublished agreements between them, based on which the unsuspecting customers end up with hidden charges. This has NOTHING to do with credit card usage or a foreign exchange fee. When you don't pay up-front during reservation in $s, but you pay in yen at the hotel, what's posted on your card uses a "special" exchange rate (as on your credit card statement you will see the yens converted in $s), which is not what the credit card's exchange is, but a lot worse. I tested this with Booking.com and with Agoda. Per Agoda, "Agoda’s rates come from our most updated, independent partners", not available to customers. Per Booking.com, their exchange rates are the same as the credit card's and can be looked up any time on Visa's or Master Card's websites and they are very close to what XE.com shows. Using Agoda, not knowingly, one ends up paying a few hundred dollars more if paying at the hotel in local currency. I luckily learned my lesson before having to pay anything. So buyer beware.
Long story short, I don't know if seeing on Booking.com SOLD OUT, really means sold out or not. it would be helpful to know. I will re-check in September/October some of those hotels that I considered but appear to be unavailable for my dates for the type of room I am looking for.
Aug 24th, 2018, 06:01 PM
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[QUOTE=Suzanna;16783773]I have no way of knowing for sure one way or the other. Many times I try first to book on the hotel's website, but find that some of these websites (at least the English version) are hard to use, not reliable, don't have enough info, etc. I recently encountered a batch of hotels which apparently had their booking application compromised (stated on the website); they asked you to call if you wanted to book. So most of the time I use Booking.com that I find quite transparent, easy to use and with good customer service. To-date, I had no issues with them (unlike with Agoda).
When I go to Booking.com, I see that reservation is open at least 1 year ahead of time. I never understood why certain hotels in Japan allow tourists to reserve hotels only 3 months before their date. During the process, I also learned that the same hotel can have different policies (cancellation, reservation, payment, etc.) and very different prices depending on which website you use (their own, the English version, the Japanese version, etc.). I also learned that some hotels and SOME booking websites have unpublished agreements between them, based on which the unsuspecting customers end up with hidden charges. This has NOTHING to do with credit card usage or a foreign exchange fee. When you don't pay up-front during reservation in $s, but you pay in yen at the hotel, what's posted on your card uses a "special" exchange rate (as on your credit card statement you will see the yens converted in $s), which is not what the credit card's exchange is, but a lot worse. I tested this with Booking.com and with Agoda. Per Agoda, "Agoda’s rates come from our most updated, independent partners", not available to customers. Per Booking.com, their exchange rates are the same as the credit card's and can be looked up any time on Visa's or Master Card's websites and they are very close to what XE.com shows. Using Agoda, not knowingly, one ends up paying a few hundred dollars more if paying at the hotel in local currency. I luckily learned my lesson before having to pay anything. So buyer beware.
Long story short, I don't know if seeing on Booking.com SOLD OUT, really means sold out or not. It would be helpful to know. I will re-check in September/October some of those hotels that I considered but appear to be unavailable for my dates for the type of room I am looking for.
When I go to Booking.com, I see that reservation is open at least 1 year ahead of time. I never understood why certain hotels in Japan allow tourists to reserve hotels only 3 months before their date. During the process, I also learned that the same hotel can have different policies (cancellation, reservation, payment, etc.) and very different prices depending on which website you use (their own, the English version, the Japanese version, etc.). I also learned that some hotels and SOME booking websites have unpublished agreements between them, based on which the unsuspecting customers end up with hidden charges. This has NOTHING to do with credit card usage or a foreign exchange fee. When you don't pay up-front during reservation in $s, but you pay in yen at the hotel, what's posted on your card uses a "special" exchange rate (as on your credit card statement you will see the yens converted in $s), which is not what the credit card's exchange is, but a lot worse. I tested this with Booking.com and with Agoda. Per Agoda, "Agoda’s rates come from our most updated, independent partners", not available to customers. Per Booking.com, their exchange rates are the same as the credit card's and can be looked up any time on Visa's or Master Card's websites and they are very close to what XE.com shows. Using Agoda, not knowingly, one ends up paying a few hundred dollars more if paying at the hotel in local currency. I luckily learned my lesson before having to pay anything. So buyer beware.
Long story short, I don't know if seeing on Booking.com SOLD OUT, really means sold out or not. It would be helpful to know. I will re-check in September/October some of those hotels that I considered but appear to be unavailable for my dates for the type of room I am looking for.
Aug 24th, 2018, 06:19 PM
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My guess is that booking.com is not differentiating "sold out" from "not yet available." My advice would be to take heart and try again around the first of each month. But maybe others have more informed recommendations?
Aug 24th, 2018, 11:35 PM
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Firstly, when paying on checkout, it's important to always insist on paying in the local currency, a lot of times vendors will suggest you pay in your home / bank's currency as if they are offering a courtesy, but this allows them to set the exchange rate rather than your bank to do the currency conversion and is always a worse rate for you. I've never heard of a vendor being able to charge you in their currency yet influence the bank on what exchange rate they must use. I'd ask for some further guidance from your bank / card provider on this, it doesn't sound right.
You are right that cancellation terms and other policies are different for the same hotel across different booking sites, it's one of the reasons i like to use booking.com as I can filter to only select properties that offer free cancellation and no prepayment.
As for being sold out now for March/ April next year, we had similar worries the first time we went to Japan but quickly learned that most Japanese hotels do not open their reservations till 3-6 months ahead. Some do of course, and my impression was that the higher proportion of overseas visitors they get, the more likely they are to offer advance booking. Luxury hotels are also more likely to offer advance booking than regular ryokans and local hotels.
If you are still keen to stay in Takayama but are being put off only by lack of hotels, may I recommend contacting Japaneseguesthouses.com and asking them for assistance. If you explain that you'd like a confirmed reservation for those dates, and outline your requirements (western or japanese room / bed or futon / ensuite toilet facilties etc) they can look for you. The advantage of using them is that they will be able to access all the businesses that only have Japanese-language websites and booking options, often the small independent mid-range family businesses. We used them for a few places on our first trip, and they were able to ask the questions of the hotel/ ryokan/ temple that I could not but wanted to know before booking. And they were also able to find a place in my budget in Osaka when I was struggling.
You are right that cancellation terms and other policies are different for the same hotel across different booking sites, it's one of the reasons i like to use booking.com as I can filter to only select properties that offer free cancellation and no prepayment.
As for being sold out now for March/ April next year, we had similar worries the first time we went to Japan but quickly learned that most Japanese hotels do not open their reservations till 3-6 months ahead. Some do of course, and my impression was that the higher proportion of overseas visitors they get, the more likely they are to offer advance booking. Luxury hotels are also more likely to offer advance booking than regular ryokans and local hotels.
If you are still keen to stay in Takayama but are being put off only by lack of hotels, may I recommend contacting Japaneseguesthouses.com and asking them for assistance. If you explain that you'd like a confirmed reservation for those dates, and outline your requirements (western or japanese room / bed or futon / ensuite toilet facilties etc) they can look for you. The advantage of using them is that they will be able to access all the businesses that only have Japanese-language websites and booking options, often the small independent mid-range family businesses. We used them for a few places on our first trip, and they were able to ask the questions of the hotel/ ryokan/ temple that I could not but wanted to know before booking. And they were also able to find a place in my budget in Osaka when I was struggling.
Aug 25th, 2018, 07:39 AM
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30 day Japan trip; 2 more days left; where to go
I appreciate the good suggestions, Kavey. I didn't know about the Japaneseguesthouses.com in Takayama. I have to first decide where I want to go because I am kind of driving myself crazy and I do not want to do the same with others.
I know about paying always in local currency and that's the assumption that I was writing about. Whatever I tested, assumed that. I also called Visa to make sure that I understand what's happening.
Should you be interested, you might want to read this article that highlights what banks/credit card processors do.... https://thepointsguy.com/2015/06/dyn...cy-conversion/
This is not the same issue as the one I came across, but a similar one and I just mention it to illustrate that banks, merchants, etc. have many times agreements that add to the profit of both the merchant and the credit card processor, many times without the actual consent of the customer. The problem is that this adds substantially to the currency exchange rate — often between 5-10%.
The link to Visa's exchange rate calculator (for any present or past date you pick) is:
https:/…exchange-rate-calculator.html
The link for MasterCard is:
https:/…convert-currency.html
When you get your credit card statement after a trip abroad, you can use the above links to check what the credit card company's exchange rate was for that date (all VISA cards use the same exchange rate for the same date, all MasterCards use the same exchange rate for the same date - which can be different than the rate used by VISA), vs. what you see on the statement. That will tell you how much Agoda (if you used them) added to the charge when you payed in LOCAL currency. This assumes a VISA or MasterCard that doesn't charge foreign exchange fees. However, everybody might care about this, $200 and up of hidden charges do not matter for everyone.
I know about paying always in local currency and that's the assumption that I was writing about. Whatever I tested, assumed that. I also called Visa to make sure that I understand what's happening.
Should you be interested, you might want to read this article that highlights what banks/credit card processors do.... https://thepointsguy.com/2015/06/dyn...cy-conversion/
This is not the same issue as the one I came across, but a similar one and I just mention it to illustrate that banks, merchants, etc. have many times agreements that add to the profit of both the merchant and the credit card processor, many times without the actual consent of the customer. The problem is that this adds substantially to the currency exchange rate — often between 5-10%.
The link to Visa's exchange rate calculator (for any present or past date you pick) is:
https:/…exchange-rate-calculator.html
The link for MasterCard is:
https:/…convert-currency.html
When you get your credit card statement after a trip abroad, you can use the above links to check what the credit card company's exchange rate was for that date (all VISA cards use the same exchange rate for the same date, all MasterCards use the same exchange rate for the same date - which can be different than the rate used by VISA), vs. what you see on the statement. That will tell you how much Agoda (if you used them) added to the charge when you payed in LOCAL currency. This assumes a VISA or MasterCard that doesn't charge foreign exchange fees. However, everybody might care about this, $200 and up of hidden charges do not matter for everyone.
Aug 26th, 2018, 10:33 PM
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Dynamic currency conversion is what I'm talking about in my response above, when I describe a vendor charging you in your home currency rather than the local currency. You can refuse that at the time of purchase and insist on the card payment being in local currency only, in which case they *cannot* influence the exchange rate used, since the conversion is not made by them but by your bank. (I'm already aware of what banks and processors do, I've worked on projects for large retailers related to processing of card payments and what card providers can/ cannot do). If you allow them to charge in your home currency, then *they* apply the conversion rate of their choosing, and the bank is not involved in the rate, since the amount is already in the currency you bank in. The bank rate calculator will simply show you what rate would have been applied, had the bank done the conversion instead of allowing the vendor to do it.
I've only once been caught out recently when we made a smaller purchase at a supermarket in Venice and somehow didn't look at what was shown on the card machine before entering the PIN. The sneaky cashier had put the purchase through in £ rather than Euro without asking us or us noticing. Luckily it was a small value purchase so we didn't lose much.
p.s. japaneseguesthouses.com covers not just Takayama but whole of Japan.
I've only once been caught out recently when we made a smaller purchase at a supermarket in Venice and somehow didn't look at what was shown on the card machine before entering the PIN. The sneaky cashier had put the purchase through in £ rather than Euro without asking us or us noticing. Luckily it was a small value purchase so we didn't lose much.
p.s. japaneseguesthouses.com covers not just Takayama but whole of Japan.
Aug 27th, 2018, 07:42 AM
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Kavey, yes, I am very familiar with what you describe. As I mentioned, I provided the link just as another example of how merchants and the credit card processors can manipulate the exchange rate without you really knowing about it. In addition to the dynamic currency conversion, some apparently use the same methods in other instances too.
Here is what I did, nothing to do with the credit card (or with dynamic currency conversion):
- I reserved on the same day a hotel in Japan, with free cancelation with both Booking.com and Agoda. During reservation, both reservation sites displayed two options: pay in $s now and displayed the charges in $s for paying now, OR pay at the hotel in yen and displayed the total charges in yen (both reservations with the same free cancelation option and same service fees, taxes, etc. included) . I selected payment at the hotel in yen.
- I observed that the total charge displayed in $s by Agoda was much higher than it should have been by converting the amount provided in yen using Visa's (or XE.com's) exchange rate. Booking.com's total charge displayed in $s(at the same time as Agoda's) was the same as when using Visa's (or XE.com's) exchange rate for the conversion.
- Sent an Email to Agoda and asked why their exchange rate is different than Visa's or XE.com's (describing what happened when I reserved through them vs. Booking.com). Their answer was that "Agoda’s rates come from our most updated, independent partners, not available to customers."
You can test it yourself or if you use Agoda, check the charge on your statement when you get home and compare it with what it would have been with Visa's exchange rate, on the day when the charge was posted to your statement. I cancelled my reservation through Agoda.
I noticed that japaneseguesthouses.com covers Japan. Thanks.
Here is what I did, nothing to do with the credit card (or with dynamic currency conversion):
- I reserved on the same day a hotel in Japan, with free cancelation with both Booking.com and Agoda. During reservation, both reservation sites displayed two options: pay in $s now and displayed the charges in $s for paying now, OR pay at the hotel in yen and displayed the total charges in yen (both reservations with the same free cancelation option and same service fees, taxes, etc. included) . I selected payment at the hotel in yen.
- I observed that the total charge displayed in $s by Agoda was much higher than it should have been by converting the amount provided in yen using Visa's (or XE.com's) exchange rate. Booking.com's total charge displayed in $s(at the same time as Agoda's) was the same as when using Visa's (or XE.com's) exchange rate for the conversion.
- Sent an Email to Agoda and asked why their exchange rate is different than Visa's or XE.com's (describing what happened when I reserved through them vs. Booking.com). Their answer was that "Agoda’s rates come from our most updated, independent partners, not available to customers."
You can test it yourself or if you use Agoda, check the charge on your statement when you get home and compare it with what it would have been with Visa's exchange rate, on the day when the charge was posted to your statement. I cancelled my reservation through Agoda.
I noticed that japaneseguesthouses.com covers Japan. Thanks.
